Pixel Shader 3.0 cost nVidia 60 million transistors?
- Thread starter SickBeast
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zephyrprime
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- Feb 18, 2001
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My memory may be fading, but I don't think the 9700P is three years old.
When Jen-Hsun said SM3.0 "cost" NV40 60M transistors, I wonder if he's just subtracting the public transistor count for NV40 and R420? I'd be surprised to learn it would take ATi an additional ~60M transistors just to implement SM3.0 on their 16-pipe R420. I'd be somewhat understanding of their desire to skip SM3.0 for now, given that games likely won't take full advantage of it for at least a few months (going by past new tech. introductions, though SM2.0 to SM3.0 may be a smaller or at least easier-to-implement tech. leap than most).
When Jen-Hsun said SM3.0 "cost" NV40 60M transistors, I wonder if he's just subtracting the public transistor count for NV40 and R420? I'd be surprised to learn it would take ATi an additional ~60M transistors just to implement SM3.0 on their 16-pipe R420. I'd be somewhat understanding of their desire to skip SM3.0 for now, given that games likely won't take full advantage of it for at least a few months (going by past new tech. introductions, though SM2.0 to SM3.0 may be a smaller or at least easier-to-implement tech. leap than most).
videoclone
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- Jun 5, 2003
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guys think about what your saying if Nvidia didnt put 3.0 into there Graphics cards then it wouldnt take a few months to get 3.0 used in games it would never happen as there wouldnt be any hardware to support it at least now game developers have the ability to work with PS3.0 as with ATI card they dont get that luxury and are stuck with PS2.0 frustration.
I think Nvidia is not helping itself out allot with PS3.0 but its helping the good people who make us those game we love to play .. ATI is just spitting in there faces and telling them what they want not giving them it.
Good on Nvidia for taking the step and losing some money.
ATI are trying to make this line of card a cash cow! and nothing more.
I think Nvidia is not helping itself out allot with PS3.0 but its helping the good people who make us those game we love to play .. ATI is just spitting in there faces and telling them what they want not giving them it.
Good on Nvidia for taking the step and losing some money.
ATI are trying to make this line of card a cash cow! and nothing more.
No one complained the GF4 was a cash cow, and it offered no new features over the GF3 save for speed. I think there's a place for much faster refreshes.
videoclone
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- Jun 5, 2003
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BUT COME ON !!!! a faster refresh is 1 thing but this is not sposed to be a Refresh product the 9800 Pro and 9800XT are refresh products from the 9700 ?. And now the X800 is another refresh product from the 9700 BUT ATI are marketing it as a new core ??
How many times are they going to refresh the same product!! lol
A 9700 Pro has ALL the same Bells and whistles as a X800XT ... but without the speed
ATI are really taking the motto .. If It isnt broke dont fix it approach a little far!
How many times are they going to refresh the same product!! lol
A 9700 Pro has ALL the same Bells and whistles as a X800XT ... but without the speed
ATI are really taking the motto .. If It isnt broke dont fix it approach a little far!
Videoclone, or should I say nVidia stockholder:
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
R300/350 wasn't broke, so they left good enough alone and made it faster.
NV30 was broke so they fixed it.
Grrrrr....why do these threads always attract fanboys and cause flame wars?
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
R300/350 wasn't broke, so they left good enough alone and made it faster.
NV30 was broke so they fixed it.
Grrrrr....why do these threads always attract fanboys and cause flame wars?
It works, I'd probably do the same in their shoes.
That way I wouldn't waste too much $ on R & D while keeping up close enough with the competition. And personally I don't think much has changed since the 9700 Pro was out API wise.
Reason seeing nVidia making a completely new core was IMO to fix the problems they had with their NV3X series and since they were gonna do that why not add other things like PS3.0 into the mix.
videoclone
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SithSolo1
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- Mar 19, 2001
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Exactly. The NV40 has yet to show us it's SM3.0 prowess. On the other hand it has shown us it is behind the X800 in SM2.0 games. The fact is that the X800's SM2.0 prowess may be strong enough to outpace the NV40 even when it's using a SM3.0 path. I also don't think that SM2.0 is that much harder to code and also they'd code for it first anyway seeing as how there are more SM2.0 capable cards than SM3.0 cards right now.
Aye, although ATI also included a new feature labeled "3Dc" with the R420 which I think is simialar to PS3.0.
Now PS3.0 will definitely be here for the long haul although I can't say the same for 3Dc.
SithSolo1
Diamond Member
- Mar 19, 2001
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SM3.0 consist of PS3.0 and VS3.0
SM = Shader Model
PS = Pixel Shader
VS = Vertex Shader
Most people us PS and SM interchangably but they are not the same. But I may have used it wrong so if it makes you feel better just replace SM w/ PS and re-read my post.
SM = Shader Model
PS = Pixel Shader
VS = Vertex Shader
Most people us PS and SM interchangably but they are not the same. But I may have used it wrong so if it makes you feel better just replace SM w/ PS and re-read my post.
Yea I'm aware of what SM is. Not that you were wrong, just wasn't sure what you meant esp. when ppl interchangeably(as you said ) mix PS with SM and vice-versa.
) mix PS with SM and vice-versa.Think about what you guys are really arguing about. Shouldn't you guys be pissed at Microsoft. Each new gen graphics card has new features. Even the Geforce4 - most likely clock for clock, the GF4 was faster than the GF3 right. All we can expect from these companies are IQ and FPS and everything else from Microsoft.
Meant performance-wise as in they both help increase performance. As that is the main feature point of PS3.0 over PS2.x. Therefore the opposite to PS3.0 for nVidia is 3Dc for ATI.
What a really unprofessional reply to those questions. He acted pretty childlike. But then again, its not the first time.
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