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pitt bulls enter house and badly maul a woman while sleeping

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Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: Vic
Uhh... Pits are just as trainable as Rotts. As always, the problem is the owner, not the dog. Blaming the dog is like blaming a car for getting in an accident.
QFT!

My mother helps run a pitbull dog rescue, and not a single one of their pits has ever bitten anyone.

In fact, most of the pups she fosters turn out to be some of the sweetest, most loveable dogs I've ever known. Hell, most of them think they're lap-dogs and will lick you to death before they ever even think about biting you!

It's entirely about the owners and how they raise them.

funny, every single owner who has a pit that turned on humans said the same exact thing.
There are certain rules and methods to raising and training pitbulls that most owners never bother to learn.

1) you NEVER play tug-of-war, or let them use pull-toys of any sort.

2) you NEVER let them so much as nibble on your hands or arms. (in other words, any time they try to bite, even playfully, you stop them).

3) you NEVER encourage agressive behavoir.

4) you NEVER EVER let them off of a leash in any area that has a fence shorter than 6 ft.

5) etc...

Like I've said, it's all about the owners - many are too lazy or too ignorant to raise a pitbull properly. At most decent pitbull rescues, 9 out of 10 of the potential adopters are rejected. In some cases, the dogs are taken back by the rescue if/when the owners break one of the many rules they have to agree to when they choose to adopt a pitbull. They are usually asked to sign a binding contract that allows for routine follow-up visits, and even casual surveilance, by the rescue leagues.

There are a few cases where the dogs have flipped out under seemingly random circumstances, but not as many as the media would have you believe. Most often, the owners are later found to be negligent, and the media simply fails to follow-up on that part of the story.
Sounds pretty damn dangerous to me. I had a labrador. I used to play tug of war. If she growled and I stopped, she stopped, but generally I would bother stopping and we'd continue on. I use to put my hand in her mouth for fun and have her gnaw on it. If I let her off the leash she'd run somewhere and take a crap.

 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Sounds pretty damn dangerous to me. I had a labrador. I used to play tug of war. If she growled and I stopped, she stopped, but generally I would bother stopping and we'd continue on. I use to put my hand in her mouth for fun and have her gnaw on it. If I let her off the leash she'd run somewhere and take a crap.
LOL, ya, there's certainly a bit more to think about when you raise a pitbull. The strength in their jaws requires you to play differently, that's for sure.

The bottom line is that they are perfectly behaved pets if they are raised correctly. Yes, it's different than raising any other breed, but that's the commitment one needs to be willing to make if you choose to go with pits.
 
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: Vic
Uhh... Pits are just as trainable as Rotts. As always, the problem is the owner, not the dog. Blaming the dog is like blaming a car for getting in an accident.
QFT!

My mother helps run a pitbull dog rescue, and not a single one of their pits has ever bitten anyone.

In fact, most of the pups she fosters turn out to be some of the sweetest, most loveable dogs I've ever known. Hell, most of them think they're lap-dogs and will lick you to death before they ever even think about biting you!

It's entirely about the owners and how they raise them.

funny, every single owner who has a pit that turned on humans said the same exact thing.

No, it's not funny. People don't realize that dogs are still only animals and can turn on you in a New York second. Any breed can turn on you but I believe some breeds are more prone to doing so and if that breed happens to be a large powerful breed you have a recipe for disaster... an accident waiting to happen.
 
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: Vic
Uhh... Pits are just as trainable as Rotts. As always, the problem is the owner, not the dog. Blaming the dog is like blaming a car for getting in an accident.
QFT!

My mother helps run a pitbull dog rescue, and not a single one of their pits has ever bitten anyone.

In fact, most of the pups she fosters turn out to be some of the sweetest, most loveable dogs I've ever known. Hell, most of them think they're lap-dogs and will lick you to death before they ever even think about biting you!

It's entirely about the owners and how they raise them.

funny, every single owner who has a pit that turned on humans said the same exact thing.

No, it's not funny. People don't realize that dogs are still only animals and can turn on you in a New York second. Any breed can turn on you but I believe some breeds are more prone to doing so and if that breed happens to be a large powerful breed you have a recipe for disaster... an accident waiting to happen.
your average bicycle or skateboard is "an accident waiting to happen."

Should we ban bikes or boards? Or better yet, should pitbull owners be required to wear helmets? 😉
 
nice dramatic total pile of BS Vic

pitbulls were bred to be fighting animals, PERIOD

any dog puppy is cute, and yes, my mom's cousin's sisters friend has some and they are so cute and cuddly......blah blah blah blah blah blah

You can train a tiger cub to be a pet as well - does that mean you should be able to have a tiger for a pet?

Yes, German Sheperds bite more people than any other breed, blah blah blah.


Bottom line - stop defending Pit bulls - it's a dangerous breed, period - there is no debate on this issue. Yes, any breed can be properly trained, but how many dogs are truly properly trained? Pit Bulls, whether they have been trained to be fighters, or if they haven't been properly and extremely well trained, are more dangerous than other dog breeds - end of discussion. Are there other 'dangerous' dog breeds? Any dog can be dangerous, but no dog has the biting power of a pit bull.

you should need special dangerous breed license in order to own one, and that license makes the people that own them legally liable when stuff like this happens.
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Vic
Uhh... Pits are just as trainable as Rotts. As always, the problem is the owner, not the dog. Blaming the dog is like blaming a car for getting in an accident.
Maybe, but since these dogs are disproportionately involved in maulings, whether it's them or the owners, something should stop. I'd say random audit of all pit owners and ban them from ever owning a dog again, if indeed it is the owner, then we're good.
Well, of course. Look at the situation here. 2 pit bulls out roaming around in the middle of the night? Who's fault is that?
 
Originally posted by: NeoV
nice dramatic total pile of BS Vic

pitbulls were bred to be fighting animals, PERIOD

any dog puppy is cute, and yes, my mom's cousin's sisters friend has some and they are so cute and cuddly......blah blah blah blah blah blah

You can train a tiger cub to be a pet as well - does that mean you should be able to have a tiger for a pet?

Yes, German Sheperds bite more people than any other breed, blah blah blah.


Bottom line - stop defending Pit bulls - it's a dangerous breed, period - there is no debate on this issue. Yes, any breed can be properly trained, but how many dogs are truly properly trained? Pit Bulls, whether they have been trained to be fighters, or if they haven't been properly and extremely well trained, are more dangerous than other dog breeds - end of discussion. Are there other 'dangerous' dog breeds? Any dog can be dangerous, but no dog has the biting power of a pit bull.

you should need special dangerous breed license in order to own one, and that license makes the people that own them legally liable when stuff like this happens.

WTF? Hey, STFU with your ignorant FUD. People like you, with your endless emotional rhetoric, "dangerous" and "think of the children!", are simply beyond annoying. Not to mention the fact that I did not post anything about "cute puppies" or "dramatic." If you've never in your life seen the obedience level of properly trained dog, then it sucks to be you... but don't call me a liar simply because you're ignorant.

Are there other "dangerous" dog breeds? You better believe it. All of them. Are some more "dangerous" than others? Certainly. Just like some humans are more dangerous than others. Which brings us full circle back to my point. For some reason, people like you do not even remotely understand people and the natural world. You say, if only we could just outlaw guns, there would be no more murder. If only we could outlaw certain dog breeds, there would be no more dog maulings. If only we could outlaw drugs, there would no drug use. Yeah, and how's that been working out?

The point is, I'm not defending ANYTHING. Personally, I don't like pit bulls and would never own one (too much work IMO). What I am doing is outright attacking the ignorance of people like yourself who think that simple knee-jerk reactionary laws, that don't address the underlying human behavior, will actually fix any of humanity's problems. Have you ever considered how callous and lazy that is? How much it reflects that you don't really care that much about people, you just want them to stop bothering you with their problems?
Nah, I wouldn't want you to think too much. Go back to your knee-jerking about cute puppies even though I never mentioned such a thing (and I actually think that kind of attitude is the absolute worst way to raise a dog, particularly a more aggressive breed).

edit: I'd like to point something out as well, because this has come up recently. NeoV didn't "strike a nerve" with me. There is no outside influence in my life pissing me off to make me post this. What happened is that he trolled, i.e. he made a post purposefully mischaracterizing my earlier argument (in a ridiculous way no less) for the express intention of inciting me. Text (see "winning by losing" This tactic of trolling has become ridiculously common and tolerated here, perpetuated particularly by dmcownen674 and his adherents.
 
One more thing I just remembered. I'm sure most people here are aware of the TV show "Dog Whisperer." But do know which is Cesar Milan's favorite breed? That's right: pit bulls. Amazing...
 
Originally posted by: Vic
One more thing I just remembered. I'm sure most people here are aware of the TV show "Dog Whisperer." But do know which is Cesar Milan's favorite breed? That's right: pit bulls. Amazing...

I watch that show all the time, I was very surprised when he said that. The episode with the lady and all of the pitbulls was especially good.
 
Originally posted by: Vic
One more thing I just remembered. I'm sure most people here are aware of the TV show "Dog Whisperer." But do know which is Cesar Milan's favorite breed? That's right: pit bulls. Amazing...

My GF is a vet and she loves pitbulls.

I'm sort of on the fence but my parents had one when I was born and he never got agressive with me even when I was a tiny baby. He would however growl at anyone who approached me.

I'm of the opinion that the owner has a ultimate say in how a dog will turn out whether good or bad.
 
Originally posted by: Vic
One more thing I just remembered. I'm sure most people here are aware of the TV show "Dog Whisperer." But do know which is Cesar Milan's favorite breed? That's right: pit bulls. Amazing...
Milan is a badass!
 
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: Vic
One more thing I just remembered. I'm sure most people here are aware of the TV show "Dog Whisperer." But do know which is Cesar Milan's favorite breed? That's right: pit bulls. Amazing...
Milan is a badass!

ssshht!
 
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: Vic
One more thing I just remembered. I'm sure most people here are aware of the TV show "Dog Whisperer." But do know which is Cesar Milan's favorite breed? That's right: pit bulls. Amazing...
Milan is a badass!

I couldn't agree more. He knows more about dogs than I have ever seen from anyone.

I'm gonna note carefully here though that pit bulls are not for everyone. They take a lot of time and training, and special care by the owner. Milan can pull that off with amazing success because of how well he knows and loves dogs. OTOH, the kind of person who gets a dog just to leave them locked up in an apartment for 10 hours a day should absolutely never own a pit bull. Once again, it goes back to owner. Some cars can be more dangerous than others. Should we outlaw Corvettes?
 
Originally posted by: NeoV
nice dramatic total pile of BS Vic

pitbulls were bred to be fighting animals, PERIOD

Bottom line - stop defending Pit bulls - it's a dangerous breed, period - there is no debate on this issue.

Indeed. I tired of hearing how the dogs are fine it is the owners BS line. No, these dogs are a menace and just because some never bite a human, too GD many of them do and when they do, they usually maim or kill. I guess the rotten apples spoil the whole bunch and the pit bull lovers just have to deal with it because I feel that within 20 years they will be illegal to own in the US. Good.
 
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: Vic
One more thing I just remembered. I'm sure most people here are aware of the TV show "Dog Whisperer." But do know which is Cesar Milan's favorite breed? That's right: pit bulls. Amazing...
Milan is a badass!

I couldn't agree more. He knows more about dogs than I have ever seen from anyone.

I'm gonna note carefully here though that pit bulls are not for everyone. They take a lot of time and training, and special care by the owner. Milan can pull that off with amazing success because of how well he knows and loves dogs. OTOH, the kind of person who gets a dog just to leave them locked up in an apartment for 10 hours a day should absolutely never own a pit bull. Once again, it goes back to owner. Some cars can be more dangerous than others. Should we outlaw Corvettes?

That's an interesting point. I think that at minimum, there should be federal licensing to own pits at a nominal charge. The licensing criteria should be similar to driver education/safety. I disagree with outlawing them, but think they have too much damage/killing/maiming potential to allow just anyone who wants one to own one without some system of weeding out irresponsible parties.

No system would be perfect, of course, but I think it could greatly decrease the numbers of neglected animals, or of bites/kills.

 
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: Citrix
i wonder why the cops just didnt shoot the dogs on the spot.
Probably afraid of the same crowd out to lynch Michael Vick now. You know, dogs have rights now. :roll:

Lynched? The guy dug his own grave.

My advice to Vick. Don't freaking gamble or get involved in a illegal dog fighting ring. Gambling = Instant death of your pro sports career. Oh and learn to pick your friends better. Having ex-felons and paroles as friends who turn on you at a drop of a dime means you've made some very bad life choices.

To quote Howard Steward.....
"Why would someone making 60 million dollars ever get involve in such a thing? What was he bored with pussy?"

If Vick was seriously that bored he should of got a freaking "legal" hobby and especially one that did not involve gambling which is what happens in dog fights. This is why he got kicked out of the NFL because they don't tolerate anyone participating in any form of gambling for obvious reasons.

Seriously if he wanted excitement he could of climbed a mountain, jumped out of a plane with a parachute, maybe become a part time lion trainer for a circus/vegas act, go to the gun range and improve his marksmanship, race cars, play paint ball etc....There are plenty of non-gambling and non-illegal actives in life to take part of if you have a 60 million dollar contract + clothing/shoe endorsements + performance incentives.
 
I think the fundamental problem is that people get these kind of animals because it gives them an erection from being the alpha dog, and being able to exercise some authority over a dangerous animal.

As someone said, just because these animals are cute and cuddly when little, it does not mean anything; there are some things hard-coded in DNA that no amount of training can erase.

About outlawing Corvettes: are they really more dangerous?

I would imagine that those sort of cars are more dangerous to stupid drivers, who might take a turn too fast and roll into a ditch. If you ask me SUVs are more dangerous to other, as their drivers feel safer and care less about others on the road.
 
I remember 20 years ago a close freind of mine got a pitbull puppy
that puppy was all great.............till it wasn't a puppy anymore. he had small kids and the dogs personality started to change at about 1 year old, at 1 1/2 years old the pit bull was put to sleep. he didn't trust it anymore, if the kids freinds came over the dog with stare none stop at those kids and the stare was kinda crazy looking, when the dog started growling at people for no reason that was the end

the dog was NOT trained to fight, attack or to be overly protective
 
"WTF? Hey, STFU with your ignorant FUD. People like you, with your endless emotional rhetoric, "dangerous" and "think of the children!", are simply beyond annoying. Not to mention the fact that I did not post anything about "cute puppies" or "dramatic." If you've never in your life seen the obedience level of properly trained dog, then it sucks to be you... but don't call me a liar simply because you're ignorant.

Are there other "dangerous" dog breeds? You better believe it. All of them. Are some more "dangerous" than others? Certainly. Just like some humans are more dangerous than others. Which brings us full circle back to my point. For some reason, people like you do not even remotely understand people and the natural world. You say, if only we could just outlaw guns, there would be no more murder. If only we could outlaw certain dog breeds, there would be no more dog maulings. If only we could outlaw drugs, there would no drug use. Yeah, and how's that been working out?

The point is, I'm not defending ANYTHING. Personally, I don't like pit bulls and would never own one (too much work IMO). What I am doing is outright attacking the ignorance of people like yourself who think that simple knee-jerk reactionary laws, that don't address the underlying human behavior, will actually fix any of humanity's problems. Have you ever considered how callous and lazy that is? How much it reflects that you don't really care that much about people, you just want them to stop bothering you with their problems?
Nah, I wouldn't want you to think too much. Go back to your knee-jerking about cute puppies even though I never mentioned such a thing (and I actually think that kind of attitude is the absolute worst way to raise a dog, particularly a more aggressive breed).

edit: I'd like to point something out as well, because this has come up recently. NeoV didn't "strike a nerve" with me. There is no outside influence in my life pissing me off to make me post this. What happened is that he trolled, i.e. he made a post purposefully mischaracterizing my earlier argument (in a ridiculous way no less) for the express intention of inciting me. Text (see "winning by losing" This tactic of trolling has become ridiculously common and tolerated here, perpetuated particularly by dmcownen674 and his adherents."

nice spaz reaction.

I've worked with and owned a police trained dog - which is at least as well trained as any dog you've seen in your life. And your BS story about a pitbull 'leaping to kill" is a complete fabrication - a pitbull trained to "kill" on command is part of the problem here, not a testament to how trainable they are.

Read about the history of this animal - it's been very poorly bred, and as a result there is a real danger - not a media created hype
 
Originally posted by: Summitdrinker
NeoV unsure who your post was directed at?, me?
but checkout this:
dog attacks owner

Wow....That is one crazy account. I feel sorry for that guy in that he had to put down his own pet in such a manner. He is very lucky that he survived that attack. I wonder if that other dog was a female dog? If she was well then was she spade so she would not go into heat? Was his dog neutered?
 
Originally posted by: dna
I think the fundamental problem is that people get these kind of animals because it gives them an erection from being the alpha dog, and being able to exercise some authority over a dangerous animal.

As someone said, just because these animals are cute and cuddly when little, it does not mean anything; there are some things hard-coded in DNA that no amount of training can erase.

About outlawing Corvettes: are they really more dangerous?

I would imagine that those sort of cars are more dangerous to stupid drivers, who might take a turn too fast and roll into a ditch. If you ask me SUVs are more dangerous to other, as their drivers feel safer and care less about others on the road.

I have to agree. Lets take a look at another animal. Tigers are cute and cuddly when they are young but any trainer of wild cats would be quick to inform any person dumb enough to think that they'd make good pets that they will grow up into what they were meant to be and that is a full on pure and simple predators.

Pitbulls were breed to fight and kill. They have a higher pertinacity to kill a person once they go into attack mode. So just like the trainer of wild cats wouldn't go out and try to make a tiger into a house pet it seems owners of pittbull should not go out and treat a pitbull like they would your typical average dog breed. I guess this is a bad analogy but some people don't realize that this breed of dog actually requires a lot of special training to handle correctly.

Even then it's gamble as to whether or not that training will kick in when a pitbull feels threatened in some manner when caught in complicated or awkward situation. Worse yet is the gamble that you don't have a pittbull who was born with a chemical imbalance or is not later in effected with some chemical imbalance that causes them to just snap.
 
Originally posted by: Drift3r
Originally posted by: dna
I think the fundamental problem is that people get these kind of animals because it gives them an erection from being the alpha dog, and being able to exercise some authority over a dangerous animal.

As someone said, just because these animals are cute and cuddly when little, it does not mean anything; there are some things hard-coded in DNA that no amount of training can erase.

About outlawing Corvettes: are they really more dangerous?

I would imagine that those sort of cars are more dangerous to stupid drivers, who might take a turn too fast and roll into a ditch. If you ask me SUVs are more dangerous to other, as their drivers feel safer and care less about others on the road.

I have to agree. Lets take a look at another animal. Tigers are cute and cuddly when they are young but any trainer of wild cats would be quick to inform any person dumb enough to think that they'd make good pets that they will grow up into what they were meant to be and that is a full on pure and simple predators.

Pitbulls were breed to fight and kill. They have a higher pertinacity to kill a person once they go into attack mode. So just like the trainer of wild cats wouldn't go out and try to make a tiger into a house pet it seems owners of pittbull should not go out and treat a pitbull like they would your typical average dog breed. I guess this is a bad analogy but some people don't realize that this breed of dog actually requires a lot of special training to handle correctly.

Even then it's gamble as to whether or not that training will kick in when a pitbull feels threatened in some manner when caught in complicated or awkward situation. Worse yet is the gamble that you don't have a pittbull who was born with a chemical imbalance or is not later in effected with some chemical imbalance that causes them to just snap.

Can't this be said about every human on the planet? We just don't know if someone has a chemical imbalance that's going to make them snap, we should just play it safe and ban all of civilization from all contact with one another until we're absolutely sure that there's no chemical imbalance in play. You never know if someone is going to snap and go on a murderous rampage. Think of the children! :roll:

You're not serious when you compare wild tigers to domesticated pitbulls, are you?
 
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