Pippen or Malone going to LA?

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: wyvrn
If you are a Laker fan and had control of the team for one day, would you trade Shaq for Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett? I would trade for Duncan because he is younger than Shaq, just as good a player (at a diff but still dominant position), and he is a class act. I might trade for Garnett for the same reasons as Duncan, but I think Duncan is better and would make the trade in a hearbeat.

if you could only make one trade that day it better not be shaq, that team is built for shaq

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: Nocturnal
Is this true? If so who are they going to trade for the either of the two?

I would hope they would not give away Fox, Bryant, or Shaq.

I love the team the way it is but I'm sure Pippen and or Malone would make a huge difference.

How old are those guys? Would LA buy older players?

 

[First]

Players Lakers need to trade:

1. Slava; terrible defender and not an offensive presence. He was clutch Game 5 of the Spurs series, but that was it.
2. Walker; do I need to explain this one?
3. Shaw; over the hill, never really helped the team this year or even during the 3rd championship run.
4. Murray; great 3-point shooter, but simply not necessary for the Lakers success in 2004.

Players Lakers need to keep (Shaq, Kobe, George, Fox and Fisher are all under contract for 2004):

1. Madsen; honestly, did anyone here watch the regular season? Madsen single handedly won two games for the Lakers in the same week by gunning down offensive rebounds one game while annoying the hell out of KG (and keeping him to 18 points) another game. Madsen's hustle and skill on the offensive and defensive glass in combination with his low salary makes him a great inexpensive back-up PF. If he improves his offense considerably he'll be a tremendous bench player for the Lakers.
2. Horry: despite his terrible playoff performance this season he's still a good player. He is one of the best players in the league when it comes to making defensive plays (poking and picking at the ball for a rebound, steal, or pass is what he's best known for), and of course no one can deny his clutch shooting. Horry could have just as easily made that Game 5 shot any other day of the week, shots don't get any closer to going in than his did. Even Kobe said that if he had to do it again he'd still pass to Horry. If Horry takes a $2 million pay cut (likely if he wants to stay with the Lakers) he and Madsen will be excellent inexpensive back-up PFs.
3. Pargo; has proven to be a very quick back-up PG to Fisher. He's also a great outside shooter if you didn't already know, he led Arkansas in 3-point FG % in college. Another great inexpensive player with good depth who is only 23 years old.
4. Rush; has lots of potential. I'd keep him just because he's relatively inexpensive, is only 22 years old, and because there really isn't anyone else on the team right now that can play as a good back-up SG to Kobe, who plays big minutes anyway. I wouldn't waste valuable cash on picking up a new SG anyway when it should be spent on a marquee PF, which brings us to the next point...

What the Lakers really need is to pick up a young and energetic defensive-minded PF, but one that can shoot too. The Lakers need someone to defensively badger the great PFs of the West (Duncan, Dirk, Webber, etc.) while also giving them headaches at the offensive end. Even if this new PF isn't a great shooter, having an effective defensive-minded PF in of itself should be enough to propel the Lakers back to the title in 2004.

With Shaq at Center, Kobe at SG, Fisher at PG, Fox or George at SF, and a good PF pickup (with Horry and Madsen backing him up) I see quite a difficult team to beat next season.

Originally posted by: CrazyDe1
Throw a Ginobli or a Tony Parker on the Lakers, and I bet they would be just as bad as Fischer or Horry or Fox. It's your team, not the supporting players. It makes people feel like they can't contribute. Kobe would rather throw up a terrible shot than get his teammates involved.

Decent players don't get a chance to contribute with the Lakers.

Shaq + Good Players works
Kobe + Good Players works
Shaq + Kobe = rest of players are support

You will never have a Shaq and Kobe and good players on that team because they will become role players and no one in their right minds wants to be a supporting player. If you have the right attitude to want to win a championship you want to contribute. You want to play an important role. You want it to be your team too. As it stands right now, it's always going to be Shaq and Kobe's team.

You must be insane. If you replace Fisher with Parker the Lakers become unstoppable without changing anything about their current squad. A backcourt of Parker and Kobe with Shaq in the middle would be devastating for any team in the league. Parker would have to change very little about his shooting habits if he went to the Lakers, as he averaged 15.5 ppg this past season while Fisher averaged just 5 points less than that. Not to mention Parker is a good passer who will only get better. Same goes for Manu's potential on the Lakers; he averaged 7.6 ppg this past season but is mostly a defensive-minded player anyway, who would fit perfectly with what Phil Jackson wants accomplished on the defensive end. Of course the Spurs would be fools to let Manu and/or Parker find their way to L.A. After the Spurs win it this year (they better!) Manu or Parker would be crazy to leave anyway.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: m2kewl

Originally posted by: wyvrn
If you are a Laker fan and had control of the team for one day, would you trade Shaq for Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett? I would trade for Duncan because he is younger than Shaq, just as good a player (at a diff but still dominant position), and he is a class act. I might trade for Garnett for the same reasons as Duncan, but I think Duncan is better and would make the trade in a hearbeat.

i'd trade Shaq's ass in a heartbeat too, for Duncan :Q

i'd trade shaq for garnet and throw in a lung to sweeten the deal

 

[wyvrn]

Good players go to the Kings. Okay. Too bad none of them are GREAT. The problem with the Kings, Mavs, Spurs, Trail Blazers, is they had no single guy to go to for the clutch shot. They are too willing to pass, as they NEED a selfish player. Spurs still somewhat have this problem, as it has only been this latest game 6 when Duncan has stepped up, will he continue to do so? Will he actually TAKE OVER when necessary? For the Kings, Stojacavic is looking to become that person but I don't think he can create his own shot good enough. For the Mavs, Van Exel looks to become the man but the team still can't play defense. For the Trail Blazers, well they couldn't find anyone in Game 7. These teams don't have players in the clutch saying "GIVE ME THE DAMN BALL". Not just players that are willing to take the final shot, but players that WANT to take it.

You know the main knock on Nowitzki this offseason was his passing. Experts were telling him he needed to learn how to pass and was taking too many shots. He has improved his passing and is a better defender, and is now being considered in the superstar class. Shaq is known as a great passer, and that is why he is dangerous. If you double him, he gets the ball to the open man. The problem with the Lakers is, they don't have that good second tier guy, like a Finley with the Mavs, who can hit the open shot consistently and occasionally win a game when the stars aren't playing well.

if you could only make one trade that day it better not be shaq, that team is built for shaq

Uh, Kobe doesn't need Shaq to be a star and the rest of the team are role players. Trade Duncan and Shaq and the team plays about the same, except that you get to keep Duncan longer. Any of the rest of the guys on the team are replaceable.

 

[First]

And you would have to be smoking something very strong if you think trading Shaq is in any way, shape, or form a good move. Shaq just mentioned that he is determined to condition himself during the summer and hopes to come back many pounds lighter, but also stronger, come November. Shaq is determined to win it again next year.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
And you would have to be smoking something very strong if you think trading Shaq is in any way, shape, or form a good move. Shaq just mentioned that he is determined to condition himself during the summer and hopes to come back many pounds lighter, but also stronger, come November. Shaq is determined to win it again next year.

there is a reason duncan is MVP. he is younger and more athletic then shaq. wouldnt the age be a big enough incentive to trade?

 

[wyvrn]

For me it would. Duncan is MVP and a dominant power forward. How much better do you think he would be with Kobe in his backcourt. The Spurs don't have any other player in the same class as Kobe. Plus the age difference makes it a no-brainer to me. Having said that, I have been a huge Shaq fan since he played college ball and if the Mavs somehow got him I would be deliriously happy.

Originally posted by: shady06

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
And you would have to be smoking something very strong if you think trading Shaq is in any way, shape, or form a good move. Shaq just mentioned that he is determined to condition himself during the summer and hopes to come back many pounds lighter, but also stronger, come November. Shaq is determined to win it again next year.

there is a reason duncan is MVP. he is younger and more athletic then shaq. wouldnt the age be a big enough incentive to trade?

 

[ElFenix]

san antonio would have to be nuts to trade duncan. they're not going to do it just because of what some laker fanboys think on the internet

 

[First]

Originally posted by: shady06

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
And you would have to be smoking something very strong if you think trading Shaq is in any way, shape, or form a good move. Shaq just mentioned that he is determined to condition himself during the summer and hopes to come back many pounds lighter, but also stronger, come November. Shaq is determined to win it again next year.

there is a reason duncan is MVP. he is younger and more athletic then shaq. wouldnt the age be a big enough incentive to trade?

You could call this past season one of Shaq's worst, with injuries, lack of ability to condition, etc. hampering his basketball. Yet he still finished 4th in the league in scoring and was dominant throughout most of the year. Think of what a healthy Shaq would do to the rest of the NBA. Duncan is young, and this is good because he'd most likely be able to play for the Lakers longer than Shaq, but remember, Duncan is barely 4 years younger than Shaq (Shaq is 31 and a two months old and Ducan is 27 and one month old).

When it comes right down to it, Duncan can't pass like Shaq (I'd say Webber is the only big man in the league that's as good a passer as Shaq), can't score like Shaq, and most definitely can't intimidate like Shaq (even Shaq's FT % isn't that much worse than Duncan's now!). Besides some youth, the major advantage you have with Duncan is his defense; Ducan is a great blocker and just a great defender in general.

Bottomline, I don't think any team in the NBA would trade Shaq for anyone, including Duncan. Lakers certainly won't.

 

[The Dancing Peacock]

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb

Originally posted by: shady06

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
And you would have to be smoking something very strong if you think trading Shaq is in any way, shape, or form a good move. Shaq just mentioned that he is determined to condition himself during the summer and hopes to come back many pounds lighter, but also stronger, come November. Shaq is determined to win it again next year.

there is a reason duncan is MVP. he is younger and more athletic then shaq. wouldnt the age be a big enough incentive to trade?

You could call this past season one of Shaq's worst, with injuries, lack of ability to condition, etc. hampering his basketball. Yet he still finished 4th in the league in scoring and was dominant throughout most of the year. Think of what a healthy Shaq would do to the rest of the NBA. Duncan is young, and this is good because he'd most likely be able to play for the Lakers longer than Shaq, but remember, Duncan is barely 4 years younger than Shaq (Shaq is 31 and a two months old and Ducan is 27 and one month old).

When it comes right down to it, Duncan can't pass like Shaq (I'd say Webber is the only big man in the league that's as good a passer as Shaq), can't score like Shaq, and most definitely can't intimidate like Shaq (even Shaq's FT % isn't that much worse than Duncan's now!). Besides some youth, the major advantage you have with Duncan is his defense; Ducan is a great blocker and just a great defender in general.

Bottomline, I don't think any team in the NBA would trade Shaq for anyone, including Duncan. Lakers certainly won't.

Let me preface this by saying I am a Laker fan, not a bandwagoner, but I grew up watching Magic and the Showtime Lakers.

Shaq was very lazy this last year, there were many times that he was outhustled for a rebound or got beat . It seems to be a pattern with him, he doesn't like to rebound or play D as much as score, that is why he had so many problems with Kobe at the beginning and the whole "big dog guarding the house" nonsense.

There is no reason Shaq should have any less than 15 rebounds a game. He averaged 11.1 this last season. He is the biggest guy on the court, every time he plays, he should have a hand on just about anything coming off the glass. Those games where he has 17 or 18 rbs, are the ones that he "tries" in, the rest , he'll kind of glide through.

I give Shaq up for Duncan b/c of his defense and because the Lakers have Kobe. On the Spurs, Duncan HAS to take the last shot, no way around it. If he was with the Lakers, it's between Kobe and Duncan, Kobe could be the alpha dog on the team, and Duncan could be a great co-1st option.

Now that said, don't think that I'm so upset fan thinking Shaq is to blame for being fat and lazy. That whole team was tired, they've played almost 1 extra season in playoff games these last 3 years, and most of the team isn't young. They'll retool around Shaq and Kobe and be dominant again.

I agree with Evan that they should keep Madsen, Horry, Pargo and Rush. Pargo and Rush are young and inexpensive. Rush has an upside, and if he can prove himself, he can be a good backup to Kobe. Pargo came out of nowhere to be a serviceable, quick guard. Madsen is a great sparkplug off the bench. It was definitely visible that the rest of the team fed off his energy. Most of the time, he was the only one trying on the boards. If he'll take the minimum, no reason not to keep him.

Re: Malone and Pippen - The Lakers would likely take one or the other, not both. Pippen hated being on the Rockets, but you forget that if he were to come, Phil Jackson , knows how to keep him in line. He wouldn't have to play so much, and could be a nice option next to Kobe in a big backcourt.

Malone isn't dumb, he knows that if he were to come to the Lakers, he would be the 3rd option. He wouldn't have to be the man, just be a solid rebounder, defender and clean up some missed shots. I don't know if his ego can take it, but I think he can humble himself to do it., I think he wants to win that bad.

That said I hope the Lakers go hard after Keon Clark who is a free agent, or Juwan. Either one could do a good job keeping defenses honest. Juwan can hit a little deeper than Keon can, but Keon is very athletic.

 

[hans007]

fox is so done.


i would not spend the exemption on malone . for one thing he'll want a lot of shots to get kareem's record.


nor would i spend it on pippen since he's old and cant play the whole game.


i think juwan howard is probably the best we could get with the 4.5 million exemption. at least he works hard, i mean sure he's over paid but at 4.5 he wouldnt be. plus that loser walker is gone we need at least one more power forward.


i'm sure they'll try to renogotiate or well screw, horry , like they did shaw. so we should have another million or 2 under the luxury tax to sign people. i hope we can get rid of tracy murray now too.

 

[flxnimprtmscl]

Originally posted by: The Dancing Peacock
Malone isn't dumb, he knows that if he were to come to the Lakers, he would be the 3rd option. He wouldn't have to be the man, just be a solid rebounder, defender and clean up some missed shots. I don't know if his ego can take it, but I think he can humble himself to do it., I think he wants to win that bad.

Also remember that Malone is about two years away from passing kareem as the all time scorer. To do that in that time he'd need about 20 points a game iirc. You know he won't get enough looks to do that with the lakers. You think he wants a ring bad enough to give that up?

 

[isekii]

Originally posted by: hans007
fox is so done.


i would not spend the exemption on malone . for one thing he'll want a lot of shots to get kareem's record.


nor would i spend it on pippen since he's old and cant play the whole game.


i think juwan howard is probably the best we could get with the 4.5 million exemption. at least he works hard, i mean sure he's over paid but at 4.5 he wouldnt be. plus that loser walker is gone we need at least one more power forward.


i'm sure they'll try to renogotiate or well screw, horry , like they did shaw. so we should have another million or 2 under the luxury tax to sign people. i hope we can get rid of tracy murray now too.

Juan Howard overpaid ?
he's not doing as well as he should because he's on a sh!tty team and is carrying everyone elses slack.
put him on a decent team with other teammates pulling their weight.. then you'll say he's underpaid



I wish Nets would trade off Mutumbo for Theo Ratliff or something..
maybe even Jermaine O'Neal.
Mutumbo is just slow ... and he doesn't even have his shots anymore, but it is funny when he wiggles his fingers after he rejects someone.

 

[lastig21]

I'll agree with Pippen being a cancer. He has not given a positive contribution to any team he has been on since the bulls, yet somehow the blazers think he does. He was an excellent defender, and is still above average. He is a very poor shooter though, especially in clutch situations. Because he is a veteran player with a championship ring, all young players look to him to win the game. He will choke, therefore the team will choke. I would pay to not have Pippen on my team.