PING: iamtrout

[HardWarrior]

Hey dude. I'm about 3-weeks away from a coolant flush\refit and I'm taking this as a chance to try something different, and hopefully better. My understanding is that corrision inhibitor is only needed if your loop includes different metals, with their disparate galvanic responses. Is this true? It's going to be a 3-block, all-copper (brass topped CPU block, I can easily go with lucite if it's an issue) loop with distilled water, clear\green UV and biocide.

 

[lobadobadingdong]

water can still corrode an all copper setup, copper oxidizes (albeit slowly) just like many other metals.

 

[HardWarrior]

True enough, but like you said, not in a period of time I'm concerned with. I guess what I'm asking is whether or not I should use a corrosion inhibitor in a all-copper loop if copper-to-copper doesn't ACTIVELY errode itself, like say copper-to-AL? I'm sorry if I'm not posing this in clear terms, but I'm not a chemist or a metalurgist. I'd just like not to use additives that I don't truly need.

 

[iamtrout]

Whoa, interesting way to get my attention What does PING stand for?

If you have an all copper setup you shouldn't worry too much about corrosion, but since you're going to be adding additives to prevent biotic growth and decrease surface tension, I would recommend getting something that triples as a corrosion inhibitor just to be safe. I like regular ol' car coolant because it's designed to stop corrosion, but also has the side effects of being toxic to algae and slippery, which reduces surface tension. What additive are you currently using?

Brass and copper work really well with each other. After all, brass is a derivative of copper.

 

[HardWarrior]

Packet InterNet Grooper! People at INA us it, so I thought I'd be cool and try it here.

Currently, redline water-wetter, anti-algae and red UV die. This is my third loop and frankly I'm tired of staining my expensive tubing with water-wetter. Besides that, I keep hearing that WW doesn't bring down temps because PC water-cooling doesn't reach the temps needed to activate said properties. At best, like you said, it acts as a poison. But then that why I add dedicated biocide. Also, and I might be wrong about this, but isn't surface tension ameliorated by removing suspended materials for the water and keeping a high pH? You know, I don't have an inherent problem tossing in car coolant, I just want unstained tubing for a change. Oh, and this loop is 8-months old and is still nice and clear.

I'm glad to hear that about brass. Since all I have to upgrade is the top for my TDX to make it compatible with the A64, I decided to take the hardass BillA approach and drop the "pretty boy" lucite.

 

[iamtrout]

Err, you said you're tired of staining your tubing with water-wetter, which you said you are currently using. But then you said your loop is 8 months old but still nice and clear.

I may be wrong, but anti-corrosion additives work by forming a protective layer of molecules over the metal, which means that it would also form this layer over the tubing, which finally means unavoidable staining. I think hyperlube only works in solution.

You are correct in saying that a pure basic fluid has low surface tension, so I assume the biocide is basic and acts to decrease surface tension? I think the bottom line is tube staining.

http://forums.procooling.com/v...1&page=1&pp=25

http://www.hyperlube.com/prod_cool.asp

While brass and copper do work really well together, the bottom line is that they are not the same metal... so they will probably corrode each other, only just to a very small extent. In that case I think that a bit of algaecide and a bit of hyperlube should be enough to keep the small corrosion at bay, prevent biotic growth, and not stain tubing. Or use airspirit's setup, which can be found in the link.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: iamtrout
Err, you said you're tired of staining your tubing with water-wetter, which you said you are currently using. But then you said your loop is 8 months old but still nice and clear.

I may be wrong, but anti-corrosion additives work by forming a protective layer of molecules over the metal, which means that it would also form this layer over the tubing, which finally means unavoidable staining. I think hyperlube only works in solution.

You are correct in saying that a pure basic fluid has low surface tension, so I assume the biocide is basic and acts to decrease surface tension? I think the bottom line is tube staining.

http://forums.procooling.com/v...1&page=1&pp=25

http://www.hyperlube.com/prod_cool.asp

While brass and copper do work really well together, the bottom line is that they are not the same metal... so they will probably corrode each other, only just to a very small extent. In that case I think that a bit of algaecide and a bit of hyperlube should be enough to keep the small corrosion at bay, prevent biotic growth, and not stain tubing. Or use airspirit's setup, which can be found in the link.

Indeed the coolant looks crystal clear in my res, meaning it doesn't exhibit the murkiness that indicates biological activity. The tubing itself is stained by the pinkish dye used in redline. If fact, the staining runs well into that wall of the tubing, which is sort of interesting.

That's my understanding as well. Moreover, it was my understanding that identical metals didn't create the "battery effect" (galvanic errosion) that would quickly destroy an AL block if any copper blocks are present. Actually, I think the only problem with adding car coolant is the fact that it contains dye (and maybe something else to make it taste bad), so it seems like all I need is a brand that doesn't include dye.

I just found this at overclockers:

"Myth: Antifreeze improves the thermal properties of water.

Reality: Antifreeze actually worsens the thermal properties of water and is 18 times thicker at room temperature, resulting in more back pressure and slightly lower flow.

However, in a system with dissimilar metals (eg, aluminum and copper), antifreeze or some other anti-corrosive is required to keep metals from reacting with each other to prevent corrosion. Antifreeze is used in a car to raise the boiling point of water and lower the freezing point. Unless you are boiling your CPU (not recommended) or running below ambient (see condensation myth), then you are not in need of those two characteristics."

I THINK low pH (acid) is responsible for increasing surface tension and secondarily creating a good environment for biologicals. Biocide, in and of itself, acts as a poison but I don't think it does so by altering pH. Distilled water comes out of the bottle with a pH of between 7-8 which is just about right, but frankly I don't know what to put in to keep it that way over time. That might be a mystery function of Red Line! Yeah, unless I can find a pure copper cover for my TDX I'll just stay with Lucite.

I'll take a look at the links and thanks for the headsup on hyperlube.

Take a look at this, supposedly everything in one bottle, premixed. SexY! :laugh:

 

[iamtrout]

Aye, even if you're staying with lucite remember that your bards are probably brass, so get the hyperlube or that premixed stuff (not really sure what's in it... secret recipe? And I definitely concur on the antifreeze lowers thermal efficiency thing. Not many fluids can be added to water to make it more efficient because water is frankly pretty damn good already. It often becomes a balance between efficiency and anti-growth and anti-corrosion.