Pilotless airplane

[MixMasterTang]

Fine. I'll explain it a little differently then. Would you purchase a airline ticket from an airline that did not have physical pilots on board the plane to save *some* money on the flight.

Example

A Boeing 757 costs $56,000 to operate flying NY to LA round trip. The aircraft has 188 seats meaning the airline would need to charge $297/ticket to "break even" on the flights.

Taking a look at flights departing JFK-LAX on May 1, 2013 the price for economy class on Delta is $328 (B757-200). So based on this example if the airline did a single economy class and sold out the trip, they would make a profit of $31/ticket for a total of $5,800.

Lets say the pilot's (2) operating cost was 10% and were replaced by a remote pilot (3%)
the net gain would be 7% or almost $4000 saved. The total cost of the trip would now be $52,000 or roughly $275/ticket. Keeping the same $31/ticket profit and giving the passenger the cost savings of being pilotless that same ticket would be $306.

So would you pay $22/rt less to not have a pilot??

At this time I would pay $22 to fly in the plane with a human pilot.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

No flight attendant is going to stay a flight attendant if he/she is trained well enough to actually be a viable pilot/computer replacement in an emergency situation. He/she is going to be a pilot instead.

There will never be a truly pilotless commercial airplane.

What makes you think there would still be flight attendants?

 

[TangoJuliet]

At this time I would pay $22 to fly in the plane with a human pilot.

Do you fly a lot per year? Are you a business or casual traveler?

 

[TangoJuliet]

What makes you think there would still be flight attendants?

Because if I'm running the airline its the cheapest customer service rep on the plane. I'm not going to have people just mulling about during a flight. C'mon! we got to have order!!

 

[darkxshade]

I'm not computer guy so I ask, what's the chances that someone could hack and get access? While we're looking at the advancement of this technology we also have to look at the advancement of the hacking community.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Err, you realize what happened the last time every pitot tube failed on an airplane? The stupidity/error of the human pilot killed everyone on board.

Yes, it was a reference to that. It was a combination of multiple factors of failure, but the Co-Pilot panicked and did something stupid.

The computer completely shut down, however, thats the reason why the humans were forced to take control in the first place. They had no idea wtf was happening and why every single system in the plane that had to do with flying were all failing at the same time. So its a perfect example of why computers alone are NOT enough. They crashed because the computer simply just turned itself off without really giving a reason as to why it was doing so to the pilots.

That is NEVER supposed to happen with these planes, and the panic associated with this along with the fact that they had lost almost every system telling them their airspeed and other critical factors for flight, along with the fact that the co-pilot had tunneled into his rapidly decreasing ability to control the plane, along with the fact that he had no training to cope with such a scenario, allowed him to ignore stall warnings and when the captain realized this, it was already too late.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I'm not computer guy so I ask, what's the chances that someone could hack and get access? While we're looking at the advancement of this technology we also have to look at the advancement of the hacking community.

That could never happen.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Because if I'm running the airline its the cheapest customer service rep on the plane. I'm not going to have people just mulling about during a flight. C'mon! we got to have order!!

Customer service? We let you book online, what more could you possibly want? OK, we'll put vending machines on board. Happy now?

 

[TangoJuliet]

I'm not computer guy so I ask, what's the chances that someone could hack and get access? While we're looking at the advancement of this technology we also have to look at the advancement of the hacking community.

Well, if you believe Iran they already were able to hack and land one.

Customer service? We let you book online, what more could you possibly want? OK, we'll put vending machines on board. Happy now?

Not going to happen. I need someone to prevent people from doing stupid things such as fighting, smoking, etc. I need them there to provide assistance to the elderly, young and stupid. Plus I need someone to hand out the free bags of pretzels.

 

[Gooberlx2]

The Government has already allowing Autonomous cars to drive around. And some laws are already created to incorporate them onto the roads.

Yes, but they're still "manned" in the sense that you're not allowed to just nap in the back seat whilst the car auto drives you to work. Maybe that'll change some day (I certainly hope so).

 

[MixMasterTang]

Do you fly a lot per year? Are you a business or casual traveler?

I've flown around 500,000 miles in the last 5 years. Probably 400k for business and 100k for personal.

 

[TangoJuliet]

I've flown around 500,000 miles in the last 5 years. Probably 400k for business and 100k for personal.

Excellent. Your input is greatly appreciated. Do you pay for the business travel or is that a company expense that you do not have to pay back?

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Well, if you believe Iran they already were able to hack and land one.



Not going to happen. I need someone to prevent people from doing stupid things such as fighting, smoking, etc. I need them there to provide assistance to the elderly, young and stupid. Plus I need someone to hand out the free bags of pretzels.

Pfffft! You're not thinking this through. Passengers will be sedated and stacked like cord wood. No fighting, no smoking, no food or drink, no muss no fuss.

 

[TangoJuliet]

Pfffft! You're not thinking this through. Passengers will be sedated and stacked like cord wood. No fighting, no smoking, no food or drink, no muss no fuss.

hahaha....so you want everyone to fly Air India??

 

[Red Storm]

Fine. I'll explain it a little differently then. Would you purchase a airline ticket from an airline that did not have physical pilots on board the plane to save *some* money on the flight.

Example

A Boeing 757 costs $56,000 to operate flying NY to LA round trip. The aircraft has 188 seats meaning the airline would need to charge $297/ticket to "break even" on the flights.

Taking a look at flights departing JFK-LAX on May 1, 2013 the price for economy class on Delta is $328 (B757-200). So based on this example if the airline did a single economy class and sold out the trip, they would make a profit of $31/ticket for a total of $5,800.

Lets say the pilot's (2) operating cost was 10% and were replaced by a remote pilot (3%)
the net gain would be 7% or almost $4000 saved. The total cost of the trip would now be $52,000 or roughly $275/ticket. Keeping the same $31/ticket profit and giving the passenger the cost savings of being pilotless that same ticket would be $306.

So would you pay $22/rt less to not have a pilot??

I would pay the $22 to have a pilot. I think it's an incredibly stupid idea to not have a human pilot on board. It's A LOT more feasible for a car than a plane.

 

[TangoJuliet]

I would pay the $22 to have a pilot. I think it's an incredibly stupid idea to not have a human pilot on board. It's A LOT more feasible for a car than a plane.

I've already said that a flight attendant would be trained and could fly the plane if necessary.

The $22 would be economy class. Say you were flying with your family of 4. That cost savings is now almost $90.

 

[Pheran]

Yes, it was a reference to that. It was a combination of multiple factors of failure, but the Co-Pilot panicked and did something stupid.

The computer completely shut down, however, thats the reason why the humans were forced to take control in the first place. They had no idea wtf was happening and why every single system in the plane that had to do with flying were all failing at the same time. So its a perfect example of why computers alone are NOT enough. They crashed because the computer simply just turned itself off without really giving a reason as to why it was doing so to the pilots.

The computer did not "shut down". The autopilot disengaged (as it was designed to) since it could no longer measure airspeed. Everything else in the plane continued to work fine - what you wrote above is completely wrong. In fact the plane kept trying to warn them of a stall while the idiot copilot kept pulling the stick back.

My point is, a human pilot is not automatically better than a computer - and in the particular case you brought up, the human did a far worse job than a differently programmed computer could have.

 

[Broheim]

They'll never have a pilotless airplane. At minimum it will always be two people, a captain and a co-pilot. You always need someone on the stick just in case something goes wrong.

Computers are amazing and can manage 99.999% of flight conditions, however, if a computer fails when something like, lets say, every single pitot tube fails on an airplane, you're going to need a pilot to take over because a computer can't really do much without information.

this.

It'll eventually get to the point where airlines swing by homedepot in a pickup truck, but there's always going to be a human there just in case.

 

[TangoJuliet]

The computer did not "shut down". The autopilot disengaged (as it was designed to) since it could no longer measure airspeed. Everything else in the plane continued to work fine - what you wrote above is completely wrong. In fact the plane kept trying to warn them of a stall while the idiot copilot kept pulling the stick back.

My point is, a human pilot is not automatically better than a computer - and in the particular case you brought up, the human did a far worse job than a differently programmed computer could have.

exactly. or how about the colgan flight 3407 out of ewr that killed 50 because the human pilots stalled the plane. Or how about the American Airlines flight 587 where the co-pilot freaked out about wake turbulence and basically ripped the vertical stablizer off the plane? Or how about the Egypt air flight 990? where the pilot slammed the plane into the ocean because he did it for allah?

 

[Red Storm]

I've already said that a flight attendant would be trained and could fly the plane if necessary.

The $22 would be economy class. Say you were flying with your family of 4. That cost savings is now almost $90.

A flight attendant that is trained and permitted to fly said plane is a pilot. It costs more to train them to fly than to just be an attendant, so ultimately you still have a pilot on board?

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

hahaha....so you want everyone to fly Air India??

I just want to see how far the insanity goes before America realizes that airlines will never serve the transportation needs of our country.

 

[TangoJuliet]

A flight attendant that is trained and permitted to fly said plane is a pilot. It costs more to train them to fly than to just be an attendant, so ultimately you still have a pilot on board?

sure, lets move the pilots (we have now) to the back of the plane and pay them 1/10 of what they are currently making. so yes, you technically still have a "pilot" on board.

 

[Red Storm]

sure, lets move the pilots (we have now) to the back of the plane and pay them 1/10 of what they are currently making. so yes, you technically still have a "pilot" on board.

They have to train don't they? That costs money. I don't see how you're going to suddenly pay pilots 1/10 of their normal salary (or train flight attendants to be pilots and not expect their salary to go up).

 

[TangoJuliet]

They have to train don't they? That costs money. I don't see how you're going to suddenly pay pilots 1/10 of their normal salary (or train flight attendants to be pilots and not expect their salary to go up).

This is the year 2045 and everyone will be trained on Flight Simulator X! Free-ware baby!!

 

[Murloc]

drones don't carry passengers, they don't taxi on crowded airports either. And that's where most accidents happen.
I think a human is necessary for accountability, and the price of the pilot divided over all teh passengers is nothing compared to fuel prices etc.