Picking my first Captains of Crush hand gripper

[Howard]

Say my grip just about gives out on a 220lb deadlift with regular (double overhand) grip, what should my first gripper be?

 

[Howard]

up

 

[borisvodofsky]

up

if you're trying to "look good" proportions is what's important..

bloated forearms make you "look" really off.


Otherwise...

you're gonna need the lightest one they have anyway for warm-up and "while you wait" situations.. so get that,, and go from there

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Before you buy grippers, you should incorporate things like towel pullups, pullups in general, power cleans, etc. Anything that puts a barbell in your hand against gravity (other than pressing motions). They're free and more effective than isolation.

 

[Howard]

I'm doing pullups and deadlifts right now, but I don't want my grip to hinder my progress (especially on the latter).

EDIT: Aren't concentric contraction exercises more effective at building strength than isometric?

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I'm doing pullups and deadlifts right now, but I don't want my grip to hinder my progress (especially on the latter).

EDIT: Aren't concentric contraction exercises more effective at building strength than isometric?

No, technically the higher the production of force, the greater the hypertrophy and the greater the strength gains. That puts movements in this order: eccentric > isometric > concentric. Eccentric are the most effective, but also maintain the highest risk of injury, due to such high forces. Isometrics are great at improving your strength. I weigh ~157lbs and can deadlift 350lbs with double overhand grip. I got that way through high rep pullups and lots of pulling motions with a barbell. Really though, towel everything is king for improving strength.

 

[brikis98]

I've never used the Captains of Crush, so I can't answer your question directly. If your double overhand grip is giving out on deadlift before your legs are - a common occurrence - why not switch to mixed grip or hook grip? If each deadlift day you go as heavy as possible with double overhand and use mixed/hook grip for the heaviest sets, your grip strength will go up quickly. If you need more work, you can add pull-ups, farmers walks, cleans, towel pull-ups and climbing. I'm sure the Captains of Crush are effective at building grip strength, but so are all the above exercises, and they let you work the rest of your body simultaneously as well.

 

[kamper]

No, technically the higher the production of force, the greater the hypertrophy and the greater the strength gains. That puts movements in this order: eccentric > isometric > concentric.

Can you explain that a bit more? It seems counter-intuitive to me. To hold 1lb still, you apply exactly 1lb of force (or more properly, exactly the same amount of force as gravity pulls 1lb of mass down with). To move 1lb against gravity, you apply more force and to let it move with gravity, you apply less. So for a given weight, don't you have to apply more force with a concentric movement? Of course you can handle higher weights with eccentric, but applying less force per pound of mass.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Can you explain that a bit more? It seems counter-intuitive to me. To hold 1lb still, you apply exactly 1lb of force (or more properly, exactly the same amount of force as gravity pulls 1lb of mass down with). To move 1lb against gravity, you apply more force and to let it move with gravity, you apply less. So for a given weight, don't you have to apply more force with a concentric movement? Of course you can handle higher weights with eccentric, but applying less force per pound of mass.

If you look at the force-velocity relationship, force production is highest when velocity is lowest, maximizing at 0 velocity, which is an isometric contraction. Continuing along that curve would be negative velocity where the muscle is lengthening while contracting. This type of contraction generates the greatest amount of force due to reliance on the passive properties of the muscle. I'm not talking about holding or moving a weight. I'm talking about maximal voluntary contractions. You're thinking very much like a gym user and not like a researcher, which is 100% understandable. This is a measurement when velocity is controlled and force production is measured via a force transducer.

 

[kamper]

You're thinking very much like a gym user and not like a researcher, which is 100% understandable.

No, I'm thinking like a Newtonian physicist I still don't understand the reasoning, but there's not much arguing with actual measurements...

 

[Koing]

You wont be able to close the CoC1 if you can barely DL 220lbs mate...

I can DL 341lbs with weaker left arm. I can clos ethe CoC1 28x either hand, the CoC2 with my left hand twice and my three times with my right hand.

Get the CoC1 and train on that. If yoru feeling more flush get the trainer which is rated about 60 or 70lbs of force required to crush it. The

CoC1 : 140lbs
CoC2 : 210lbs
CoC3 : 280lbs

Koing

 

[SociallyChallenged]

No, I'm thinking like a Newtonian physicist I still don't understand the reasoning, but there's not much arguing with actual measurements...

Well, you're thinking about using a 1lb load. Think about doing a pullup. Let's say your 1RM was your body weight. That means, you can concentrically pull your weight upward so your chin rises over the bar. However, your body is capable of completing the lowering portion of the pullup, which is eccentric, with much more weight (like body weight + 40lbs). Concentrically, you wouldn't be able to move your body and it would become an isometric, generating more force than your body weight, but not enough to overcome your body weight + 40lbs. If you jumped up to where you chin was over the bar and slowly let yourself down, you would actually be able to complete that movement, thus creating greater tension in your muscle. Is that better?

 

[kamper]

Sorry for being obstinate, but no, it's not. The only reason I can do an eccentric pullup with more weight is that I have to apply less force to allow the weight to move down than I have to to move it upwards.

If I do a bodyweight pullup, I'm applying more force on the way up than on the way down. I weigh 65kg so I have to apply about 638 newtons of upwards force to hold myself in place (let's say halfway up). If I want to let myself down, I apply less than 638 newtons and I accelerate downwards. If I want to get up higher, I apply more than 638 newtons and I accelerate upwards.

Now let's say you add 20kg and it now requires 833 newtons to hold me in place. Presumably, I can't apply that much force. I would assume that I can only apply as much upwards force as I could in the bodyweight scenario, let's say about halfway in between, so 735 newtons. That same amount of force would cause concentric movement in the bodyweight scenario but eccentric in the +20kg scenario.

Or is the point that there's something particular about the way a muscle is constructed that means it's capable of applying more force when getting longer?

 

[ZOOYUKA]

Another thing that can help with grip is not to use gloves. Give it a few weeks and your hands will become use to it. It is worth trying if you haven't already.

 

[Howard]

Another thing that can help with grip is not to use gloves. Give it a few weeks and your hands will become use to it. It is worth trying if you haven't already.

Actually, gloves require more grip.

 

[huh2142]

Say my grip just about gives out on a 220lb deadlift with regular (double overhand) grip, what should my first gripper be?

My grip strength is about where yours is.

I have 4; G through #1. With a proper warm up* I can close #1 2 times with either hand. I might be able to do more if the knurling wasn't as sharp. The knurling is razor wire sharp and it can be painful to use them, especially the hard ones.

*Warm Up
3x10 G
3x10 S
3x5 T

T-Nation has several good grip articles. One is specifically targeted for improving dead lift grip.

Also many have provided good alternates to the CoC grippers. Try those first and then if you are masochistic enough go for the CoCs.

 

[Howard]

Well, for the knurling, you can smooth it out with a strip of coarse emery cloth. It won't look too good but it'll knock down the burrs on the knurling.

 

[MJinZ]

Best way to really train your grip is to hold heavy things.

Use gloves to increase effort or wrap towel to increase bar thickness.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Sorry for being obstinate, but no, it's not. The only reason I can do an eccentric pullup with more weight is that I have to apply less force to allow the weight to move down than I have to to move it upwards.

If I do a bodyweight pullup, I'm applying more force on the way up than on the way down. I weigh 65kg so I have to apply about 638 newtons of upwards force to hold myself in place (let's say halfway up). If I want to let myself down, I apply less than 638 newtons and I accelerate downwards. If I want to get up higher, I apply more than 638 newtons and I accelerate upwards.

Now let's say you add 20kg and it now requires 833 newtons to hold me in place. Presumably, I can't apply that much force. I would assume that I can only apply as much upwards force as I could in the bodyweight scenario, let's say about halfway in between, so 735 newtons. That same amount of force would cause concentric movement in the bodyweight scenario but eccentric in the +20kg scenario.

Or is the point that there's something particular about the way a muscle is constructed that means it's capable of applying more force when getting longer?

You've already made the comparison for me so let's use those numbers. So let's say you apply 700N of force concentrically to move your 638N of weight. Now let's apply the 20kg weight to you, making you 833N. Concentrically, you would have to apply greater than 833N to do a pullup. If your 1RM is 700N concentrically, then a concentric contraction is physiologically impossible for you with that weight. However, using an eccentric motion, you will be undergoing a negative acceleration downward by the weight of you plus the weight. Due to the nature of eccentric motions, they utilize active properties of the contractile proteins (which is the concentric force) AND passive properties of things like the connective tissue within the muscle. Because of this, you might be producing 800N of force in the weighted eccentric pullup.

Keep in mind, isometric is a bit different in this case. It's best not to think about isometrics in terms of isotonic (same weight) scenarios. Just think about this - as a weight gets heavier for you, the speed at which you move it decreases because the force must increase to move the load. Well, just think about an isometric as a movement that is such a high load that the speed you produce against that load is zero.

 

[skace]

I always thought isometric and eccentric were better because people have a tendency to cheat on concentric exercises, by means of throwing their weight around, getting help from other muscles, abusing momentum, basically cheating the exercise in any manner to move the weight. Sometimes you don't even realize you are doing it.

 

[surfsatwerk]

I always thought isometric and eccentric were better because people have a tendency to cheat on concentric exercises, by means of throwing their weight around, getting help from other muscles, abusing momentum, basically cheating the exercise in any manner to move the weight. Sometimes you don't even realize you are doing it.

How is that cheating? It's not like they're using some other dude's muscles to move the weight.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I always thought isometric and eccentric were better because people have a tendency to cheat on concentric exercises, by means of throwing their weight around, getting help from other muscles, abusing momentum, basically cheating the exercise in any manner to move the weight. Sometimes you don't even realize you are doing it.

It really depends on the movement. There's no real way to cheat on a heavy squat. Plus, most of the movements we go through in real life are concentric movements. They're highly functional so they're good to train with. It's just a good idea to mix it up with isometric and eccentric exercises to further training more quickly. Plus, most exercises have a concentric and eccentric portion so you don't typically have to go out of your way to train most movements efficiently.