PhysX graphics a big deal?

[Hinda65]

shoot an elemental weapon (fire/shock) in borderlands 2 with physics off, then with physics on high....there is a huge difference in effect and visual quality, awesome particle effects.....but, this is about the only game I've played where I've been super impressed.

 

[parvadomus]

PhysX is just a game physics API that can run on both the CPU and GPU. Of course it runs much faster on the latter as you'd expect, and has more advanced features when using hardware acceleration.

As for why they can't code it in as normal graphics, it's because it's not graphics. It's physics, which means the effects have to be both calculated as well as rendered.

Hardware accelerated PhysX uses no canned animations like Havok, so everything is computed by the GPU.. This typically makes the effects more realistic in behavior and more impressive in overall effect.

Probably cuts down development time as well, since the devs don't have to make animations for things like cloth or hair, or explosions.

You certainly dont know anything about havok. Canned animatios???? Where did you get that. Havok is an advanced physics engine, not an animation engine. It can do everything physx do, and its starting to use OpenCL.
Anyways I have always considered physx garbage, it can run on CPUs with hacks, maybe a little slower (cause obviously NV dont optimize the algorithms for CPUs).
Ie. batman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WR6kb3oxDs
All you need is a fast CPU.

 

[Carfax83]

shoot an elemental weapon (fire/shock) in borderlands 2 with physics off, then with physics on high....there is a huge difference in effect and visual quality, awesome particle effects.....but, this is about the only game I've played where I've been super impressed.

Borderlands 2 ranks right up there with Batman Arkham City for the best PhysX implementation, or maybe even a bit better since it has the widest range of effects.

Metro Last Light's was good as well, but could have been better. I was surprised given the amount of those wretched spider creatures in the game that they didn't use PhysX for cobwebs like Batman Arkham Asylum. They used a lot of canned effects as well in certain areas, probably for similarity between the systems.

I have a feeling Witcher 3 is going to have awesome PhysX effects though, as there are so many things it can be applied to in such a huge, expansive game World.

 

[SirPauly]

One can turn-off the settings or choose AMD hardware if one doesn't care for PhysX! For me, games were static and needed more dynamics and why I was so excited about the prospect of GPU Physics from ATI and nVidia though the middleware HavokFX.

Even though, ideally, would like to see AMD license Cuda or nVidia port to OpenCL/DirectCompute, still excited about improvements with physics and desire tools to improve the potential of CPU and GPU based on their strengths.

Glad to see more content based on the SDK maturing and being more efficient! I think more dynamics are neat!

 

[Carfax83]

You certainly dont know anything about havok. Canned animatios???? Where did you get that. Havok is an advanced physics engine, not an animation engine. It can do everything physx do, and its starting to use OpenCL.

Perhaps I should have elaborated a bit. I didn't mean to say that Havok itself uses canned animations, but many of the games that use Havok for their physics (Battlefield 3 for instance) uses a mixture of canned animations and computed physics because the CPU is too slow to perform massive calculations in a timely manner.

This is adverse to games that use PhysX, where in the effects are basically all computed on the much more powerful GPU.

Anyways I have always considered physx garbage, it can run on CPUs with hacks, maybe a little slower (cause obviously NV dont optimize the algorithms for CPUs).
Ie. batman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WR6kb3oxDs
All you need is a fast CPU.

The claim that PhysX isn't optimized for the CPU is an old, erroneous argument that was refuted long ago. It may have started out with subpar CPU optimizations because it was originally intended to run on GPUs only, but over time, NVidia has certainly rectified that and it's now very well optimized for CPUs.

All we need now is for the developers to start using the latest SDKs instead of the older ones.

 

[Erenhardt]

I think you're catching on. You can turn off PhysX if you want to. If the game has a so-so implementation of PhysX, like Cryostasis for example, you can simply play the game with it off just as you would have to with any AMD card.
So, best of both worlds. Worst case scenario is that you play the PhysX title as you would experience it on AMD hardware. Best case is you get your PhysX content. The point? You can have it either way.

Yes. I have the same with those delicious cream biscuits. I love that cream. I scrape all of it and eat it, the rest goes to garbage because I don't like it very much.

 

[SirPauly]

You certainly dont know anything about havok. Canned animatios???? Where did you get that. Havok is an advanced physics engine, not an animation engine. It can do everything physx do, and its starting to use OpenCL.
Anyways I have always considered physx garbage, it can run on CPUs with hacks, maybe a little slower (cause obviously NV dont optimize the algorithms for CPUs).
Ie. batman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WR6kb3oxDs
All you need is a fast CPU.

Why would you bother to try to tweak PhysX for a fast CPU if you thought the content was garbage?

It's also nice to see Havok discuss GPU Physics again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QnKNliV7gwU

 

[runzwithsizorz]

My computer AMD, Runz computer Nvidia. Not buying new vid card now, but was curious about the benefits/drawbacks of PhysX. Looking to new gen games, especially Witcher 3. IMO if any game will use PhysX well and to the max, it will be W3 and Cd Projekt Red. Wait and see.

Anyway, thanks for all the info.

The Wife

 

[Lonyo]

Well, both next gen consoles are using AMD hardware, and NV have indicated they are only going to give CPU supported PhysX for those consoles, so PhysX will continue to be a tiny niche thing unless they enable it on non-CUDA GPU hardware.

NVIDIA says that by offering the support of its two technologies to the console, PS4 game designers will be able to "create intricate physics-enabled environments", "expand the quantity and visual quality of destructible objects" and "make smoke and other particle-based fluids integral to game play".

No point caring about PhysX until the next gen consoles shake out and the situation becomes clear on what NV have put into console PhysX. And if they enable it for AMD GPUs on consoles, it will be "interesting" to see what happens on PC.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Consoles will get cpu based PhysX just like current gen ones do.

PC will continue to see GPU accelerated PhysX enabled games as we are now, hopefully more of them though.

Hawken destruction looks quite nice, hopefully that is the direction nVidia is going... But of course that requires a deeper level of interface with the engine than what we normally see.

 

[Lonyo]

Consoles will get cpu based PhysX just like current gen ones do.

PC will continue to see GPU accelerated PhysX enabled games as we are now, hopefully more of them though.

Hawken destruction looks quite nice, hopefully that is the direction nVidia is going... But of course that requires a deeper level of interface with the engine than what we normally see.

Hopefully more GPU accelerated physics and less GPU accelerated PhysX.

 

[Carfax83]

My computer AMD, Runz computer Nvidia. Not buying new vid card now, but was curious about the benefits/drawbacks of PhysX. Looking to new gen games, especially Witcher 3. IMO if any game will use PhysX well and to the max, it will be W3 and Cd Projekt Red. Wait and see.

Anyway, thanks for all the info.

The Wife

PhysX is just one of the PC exclusive features that the Witcher 3 will have. It will also have a full complement of DX11 effects as well, some of which you can see here:

Click here

 

[f1sherman]

Why would you bother to try to tweak PhysX for a fast CPU if you thought the content was garbage?

It's also nice to see Havok discuss GPU Physics again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QnKNliV7gwU

Havok's Hard Reset and Blizzard's Diablo 3 are among my top favorite physics implementation.

Just Cause 2, Mirrors Edge, Alice, Mafia 2, Batman(s), PlanetSide 2, Borderlands 2, Hawken, Metro: Last Light, Witcher 3...
You know what... I'd be pretty pissed if I had to run these games in a Demo version i.e. w/o all their PhysX glory.

And Witcher 3 alone will be enough to cause frustration for any gamer without GTX in his rig.
OTOH PhysX also leaves bitter taste for Nvidia owners as well, as it's pretty clear that it's used only on occasions and with market disrupting motives.

So I guess PhysX is a pretty big deal and cause for frustrations on both side of the GPU fence.
If only Nvidia would support it with 1/10 of the money gamers all around the world waste on bandwith and handkerchiefs while weeping about PhysX :'(

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Hopefully more GPU accelerated physics and less GPU accelerated PhysX.

I'm ok with paying for IP and development for features that I enjoy.

 

[Lonyo]

I'm ok with paying for IP and development for features that I enjoy.

You mean through buying games? Because buying AMD hardware isn't a good way of paying NV to pay developers to use PhysX.
If you buy games with other GPU physics you are still paying for IP and development for those features.

 

[DominionSeraph]

OP, PhysX is an extra feature added to games by Nvidia.

No, it's more like Nvidia paying developers to leave out features we've had since 1997 to make their tech look better in side-by-sides. Seriously, you can spend the time to obscure the view by spattering gore all over the screen but we can no longer add a screen flash to a grenade explosion?

 

[Keysplayr]

Yes. I have the same with those delicious cream biscuits. I love that cream. I scrape all of it and eat it, the rest goes to garbage because I don't like it very much.

That is a disgusting visage. Can you get back to the PhysX discussion please?

 

[Erenhardt]

I'm ok with paying for IP and development for features that I enjoy.

But I'm not OK with paying for IP and devolopement for features I CAN'T USE!
Does that mean everyone with AMD graphics should get those games for less $, because they can't use physx?

That is a disgusting visage. Can you get back to the PhysX discussion please?

You talking about visage... give me a break!

 

[parvadomus]

Why would you bother to try to tweak PhysX for a fast CPU if you thought the content was garbage?

It's also nice to see Havok discuss GPU Physics again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QnKNliV7gwU

I dont tweak anything, I just say it can be used without a nvidia GPU. The content continue to be garbage anyways. The particles are exaggerated in such a way that the screens looks to have some crap over it, that dont belongs to the game. The only things I like about physx are the fluids, and turbulence effects.

 

[TakeNoPrisoners]

I had a GTX 680 and physx didn't stop me from switching to 7950 crossfire. It really isn't huge, even in BL2 I don't miss much.

 

[ocre]

I appreciated the physx in Cryostasis, Mafia II, and Darkest of Days in addition to Mirror's Edge and the Batman games.

Darkest of days :thumbsup:

I totally forgot about that game. Physx aside it was such a breath of fresh air. A real treat. I thought there was supposed to be a squeal?

 

[Tempered81]

In BL2 it is easy to use the Physx on AMD cards. All you have to do is edit willowengine.ini.

PhysXLevel=2

&

MaxParticleResize=128

 

[Erenhardt]

I had a GTX 680 and physx didn't stop me from switching to 7950 crossfire. It really isn't huge, even in BL2 I don't miss much.

Lack of physX particles is compensated with stutter artifacts from xfire! Only difference is one is proprietorial, the other is deliberately not supported by nvidia

 

[tweakboy]

I dont think even the UE4 engine or CryEngine 3 even use Phsyx, I know batman has phsyx and spiderman as well,,,,,, and a couple more stupid games. Its not worth doing as noice will increase heat will increase,,,,,

 

[Jodell88]

I'm not a fan of a one party solution.