silverpig
Lifer
- Jul 29, 2001
- 27,703
- 12
- 81
Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
Originally posted by: Jeff7
As I understand it, if you're traveling in a straight line through space, and you hit the spacetime curvature generated by mass, you're still traveling in a straight line, but through a curved medium. I think that's how it works, anyway.
You know I've always wondered, since the space/time medium encompasses 4 "dimensions", what fuckin' dimension does it bend in? I only took Physics 150 in college so the prof just goes: "space/time bends" and we just mutely write it down in our notebooks. I never had the wherewithal to raise my hand and go "umm... what?"
You can calculate a curvature of a space defined by a metric by calculating the ratio of a circle's radius to it's circumference. I could give some examples, but I'm too lazy to come up with any, and my GR book is at home.
Originally posted by: silverpig
There's a lot of really bad answers in this thread
Great, now I have to unlearn everything I learned reading through this thread.
silverpig
Lifer
- Jul 29, 2001
- 27,703
- 12
- 81
I think it's the opposite... they have a really long wavelength... Well, I guess the wavelength is dependent on what caused them of course, but because they supposedly travel at the speed of light, it'd take some mass oscillating extremely fast to make a gravitational wave with the wavelength of visible light.
silverpig
Lifer
- Jul 29, 2001
- 27,703
- 12
- 81
There is so much wrong here...
Dark matter can't be seen directly, but it can be seen by way of its effect on normal matter. Other objects do seem to have an effect on dark matter, as it seems clustered in and around galaxies.
How can something that exists outside of time and space affect us? What do you mean when you say it exists outside of time? Outside of space? It sounds like you've seen one too many Star Trek episodes and are just throwing some jargon around.
Bending of time and space was actually MEASURED back in 1935 or so. In fact, in order for GPS satellites to work, this bend has to be incorporated.
silverpig
Lifer
- Jul 29, 2001
- 27,703
- 12
- 81
Originally posted by: Jeff7
DrPizza hasn't visited yet. Aren't you one of the other famed physics experts here? Or do I have my names mixed up again?Originally posted by: silverpig
There's a lot of really bad answers in this thread
I don't know about famed... I have a degree in astrophysics and am working in condensed matter physics right now so I guess I know some stuff...
You're under the constant effect of gravitational waves in our universe. However... On a different "plane" or "dimension", you could very well be feeling gravity as an actual force (in contact with it), or inversely, affected by absolutely zero gravity.
Theory has it that gravity is not technically a force in OUR universe, but a mere shadow of a "real force" from another universe or dimension.
Some have postulated that you could use some kind of generator to knock yourself or an object "out of phase" with our universe, eliminating the effect of gravity and/or acceleration completely, as well as having other effects such as transparency or time dilation.
This is all theory, however. We only know that we don't know what gravity actually is, why it happens, that we know it apparently propagates at the speed of light, and that it does not appear to be a "real force", so to speak.
Crazy stuff!
Theory has it that gravity is not technically a force in OUR universe, but a mere shadow of a "real force" from another universe or dimension.
Some have postulated that you could use some kind of generator to knock yourself or an object "out of phase" with our universe, eliminating the effect of gravity and/or acceleration completely, as well as having other effects such as transparency or time dilation.
This is all theory, however. We only know that we don't know what gravity actually is, why it happens, that we know it apparently propagates at the speed of light, and that it does not appear to be a "real force", so to speak.
Crazy stuff!
Born2bwire
Diamond Member
- Oct 28, 2005
- 9,840
- 6
- 71
Originally posted by: Jeff7
DrPizza hasn't visited yet. Aren't you one of the other famed physics experts here? Or do I have my names mixed up again?Originally posted by: silverpig
There's a lot of really bad answers in this thread
There are famed physics experts? /shiftyeyes
Nemesis 1
Lifer
- Dec 30, 2006
- 11,366
- 2
- 0
Dark matter can't be seen directly, but it can be seen by way of its effect on normal matter.
Already been covered . In my first or second post on dark matter.
Other objects do seem to have an effect on dark matter, as it seems clustered in and around galaxies.
Seems is the correct word . Those clusters you speak of is what gave scientist a clue but they still haven't a clue at all. Its just an obsevation of effects.
Bending of time and space was actually MEASURED back in 1935 or so. In fact, in order for GPS satellites to work, this bend has to be incorporated
NO NO NO . Time has never ever been measured except for in concept we understand. Thats like looking back at the big bang, and saying that light is just now reaching us. Really strange that is . howed come that light isn't ahead of the expanding universe. I understand there looking back at light that moving masses in the oposite direction are creating. This is all hypothetical BS. BY the science community to explain away a universe that is ordered. Scientist want to push the idea of hypothetical universe as an out of ordered universe. Ordered universe= God . unordered universe is a feable attempt to discredit god existance. There is no way . NONE that we can look backat light from the big bang its impossiable. That light would be ahead of us not behind . Nor could you see light that is moving away from us . UNLESS science excepts speeds greater than light speed. But even than we could not observe light from the big bang.Its either ahead of us or moving away from us either way you can not observe said light.
The bend your talking about is nothing more than the effect of gravational forces on waves nothing more than that. It does however provide good information for the creation of great science fiction books and movies
silverpig
Lifer
- Jul 29, 2001
- 27,703
- 12
- 81
First of all, "seems to be" is a lot better than "I believe it is like this." At least one is based on observations.
Second, the bend is definitely not because of gravity acting on waves. If you compute the amount the light should have bent using standard newtonian physics you get 1/2 of the answer you get when you use GR and incorporate time and space bending. Guess which answer was right.
You certainly can see light from the big bang. I don't have time to explain how now, but I will later.
Born2bwire
Diamond Member
- Oct 28, 2005
- 9,840
- 6
- 71
Wait... you're saying that the reason why certain theories are being propagated through peer reviewed articles, conferences, and the international physics educational and research communities is for the purpose of discrediting God?
Nemesis 1
Lifer
- Dec 30, 2006
- 11,366
- 2
- 0
Is dark matter figured into standard newtonian physics. If its not the formula is useless. I know that it isn't . We know from observations between galaxies there is other forces at work here. If you observe physics at the celestial level a new formula must be developed. Their is noway newton accounted for dark matter as he was completely unaware of its existance. Science is way to young to be making such bold statements. Sure it works on matter of the known variety. Math holds many ans . but not all equations are none. Any force acting on a body that contains unknown effects will invaladate known equations. Dark matter is unknown and the exact influences it has on other matter is therefor unknown . Cause and effect. Lets say newtonian physics. gives a force of an equations to equal 1.000000000000000000000000000000002 if that 2 is infact a one. Scientist can make reasonableably accurete estamites. but being off just that little bit invaladates any hypothetical solutions to a problem . That they come up with.
When discussing dark matter and excepting its existance as Fact. Than we need to rethink what we thought we new. Tell me this how much force does dark matter exert on a pencil on your desk . You don't know. But the fact you except its existance means it does exert a force on said pencil. . Even if that force is unmeasureable it is still there and must be accounted for.
When discussing dark matter and excepting its existance as Fact. Than we need to rethink what we thought we new. Tell me this how much force does dark matter exert on a pencil on your desk . You don't know. But the fact you except its existance means it does exert a force on said pencil. . Even if that force is unmeasureable it is still there and must be accounted for.
Nemesis 1
Lifer
- Dec 30, 2006
- 11,366
- 2
- 0
Not at all . Math is pure it can't lie . but formulas are NOT pure. Big bang can't not be proven as factual . If it can be . What kind of force could have caused it . The same science that tells me big bang is real . Also tells me what a black hole is. Mass so great it compresses itself and nothing can exscape it . According to science.
Big bang was all the matter in the universe in one place. I would think that = Black hole
If nothing can escape a black hole . How does science explain the big bang.
Science cann't have it both ways. Even tho math is pure man isn't. My government tells me that 9/11 building 7 went down as a result of the airplane crashes. Math tells me it is impossiable for it to have occurred the way they said. In 1 day we had 3 buildings go down that math can prove couldn't have happened.
You eather except the math. or the lie its your choice. or perhaps dark matter invaladated math and made it happen the way the government said. But we already know that Dark matters effect would be min. So that doesn't work.
Many scientist there are indeed . But how many newtons or steiners are their . It a job man. They know the math but that about all these clowns know. Collegage are turning out all kinds of unquilified people with degrees. For $50,ooo a year to attend their classes. Thats a lot of $$$ a year. You get a passing grade eassily if you can do the math . But that doesn't mean you will actually do anything worth while.
Cure cancer and maybe just maybe. I can except some of the garbage that comes from the scientific community. Cancer should be a no brainer compared to understanding Big bang or black wholes or folding time and space. hypothetical my ass.
A black hole does not have a nearly infinite amount of energy acting upon it to force its mass into various directions.
Newton did not need to know about dark matter. The blanket of "all matter" includes "dark matter". Dark matter behaves like matter, that's why it's called dark "matter".
Newton did not need to know about dark matter. The blanket of "all matter" includes "dark matter". Dark matter behaves like matter, that's why it's called dark "matter".
Born2bwire
Diamond Member
- Oct 28, 2005
- 9,840
- 6
- 71
You can't ignore dark matter, dude. It goes infinite speeds and is everywhere at once. It not only caused 9/11 but is in fact 9/11 itself, as well as 9/12. The only thing more powerful than dark matter is dark energy, which is just dark matter times the speed of light squared anyway. So, in effect, the entire universe is dark energy/matter and you cannot possibly ignore it.
DangerAardvark
Diamond Member
- Oct 22, 2004
- 7,559
- 0
- 0
Nemesis 1
Lifer
- Dec 30, 2006
- 11,366
- 2
- 0
RELEASE : 06-297 NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter Dark matter and normal matter have been wrenched apart by the tremendous collision of two large clusters of galaxies. The discovery, using NASA's Chandra X-ray Observatory and other telescopes, gives direct evidence for the existence of dark matter.
"This is the most energetic cosmic event, besides the Big Bang, which we know about," said team member Maxim Markevitch of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics in Cambridge, Mass.
These observations provide the strongest evidence yet that most of the matter in the universe is dark. Despite considerable evidence for dark matter, some scientists have proposed alternative theories for gravity where it is stronger on intergalactic scales than predicted by Newton and Einstein, removing the need for dark matter. However, such theories cannot explain the observed effects of this collision.
"A universe that's dominated by dark stuff seems preposterous, so we wanted to test whether there were any basic flaws in our thinking," said Doug Clowe of the University of Arizona at Tucson, and leader of the study. "These results are direct proof that dark matter exists."
In galaxy clusters, the normal matter, like the atoms that make up the stars, planets, and everything on Earth, is primarily in the form of hot gas and stars. The mass of the hot gas between the galaxies is far greater than the mass of the stars in all of the galaxies. This normal matter is bound in the cluster by the gravity of an even greater mass of dark matter. Without dark matter, which is invisible and can only be detected through its gravity, the fast-moving galaxies and the hot gas would quickly fly apart.
The team was granted more than 100 hours on the Chandra telescope to observe the galaxy cluster 1E0657-56. The cluster is also known as the bullet cluster, because it contains a spectacular bullet-shaped cloud of hundred-million-degree gas. The X-ray image shows the bullet shape is due to a wind produced by the high-speed collision of a smaller cluster with a larger one.
In addition to the Chandra observation, the Hubble Space Telescope, the European Southern Observatory's Very Large Telescope and the Magellan optical telescopes were used to determine the location of the mass in the clusters. This was done by measuring the effect of gravitational lensing, where gravity from the clusters distorts light from background galaxies as predicted by Einstein's theory of general relativity.
The hot gas in this collision was slowed by a drag force, similar to air resistance. In contrast, the dark matter was not slowed by the impact, because it does not interact directly with itself or the gas except through gravity. This produced the separation of the dark and normal matter seen in the data. If hot gas was the most massive component in the clusters, as proposed by alternative gravity theories, such a separation would not have been seen. Instead, dark matter is required.
"This is the type of result that future theories will have to take into account," said Sean Carroll, a cosmologist at the University of Chicago, who was not involved with the study. "As we move forward to understand the true nature of dark matter, this new result will be impossible to ignore."
This result also gives scientists more confidence that the Newtonian gravity familiar on Earth and in the solar system also works on the huge scales of galaxy clusters.
"We've closed this loophole about gravity, and we've come closer than ever to seeing this invisible matter," Clowe said.
These results are being published in an upcoming issue of The Astrophysical Journal Letters. NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Ala., manages the Chandra program. The Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory controls science and flight operations from the Chandra X-ray Center, Cambridge, Mass. For additional information and images, visit:
Your right i am not educated enough to even discuss this problem but it would seem others who are disagree. A force so powerful it holds these gases in place. So because space is distorted and a gases galaxy not flying apart proves that scientific formulas that were produce by the great one must be correct. Looks to me a formula was developed based off numbers where the solution was a known factor but a theory was needed to explain the other parts of the formula that were missing enter Black matter. I do agree with this formula tho. What I do disagree with is the nature of black matter the invisiable force. I don't for a second believe the big bang theory is correct as science states. It makes zero sense. Now if Black matter existed in the whole of the universe and all the other matter was in one place and Dark matter held it in static state . Now things make more sense. Being held in a static state it would not need to become a black hole as science says it would. That s the only reason i even brought the subject up. Was it also fits the OPs question 1.where can you hide from gravatational forces. I live in a universe that has GOD in it. So dark matter fills the void that science denies. I don't believe there was a big bang but an orderly realocation and disburstment of matter threw the known universe.
In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth was without form and void and darknesswas upon the face of the deep. Than god said let there be light.
Sounds pretty dam close to what happened to me. How could Moses know such things?
"This is the most energetic cosmic event, besides the Big Bang, which we know about," said team member Maxim Markevitch of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics in Cambridge, Mass.
These observations provide the strongest evidence yet that most of the matter in the universe is dark. Despite considerable evidence for dark matter, some scientists have proposed alternative theories for gravity where it is stronger on intergalactic scales than predicted by Newton and Einstein, removing the need for dark matter. However, such theories cannot explain the observed effects of this collision.
"A universe that's dominated by dark stuff seems preposterous, so we wanted to test whether there were any basic flaws in our thinking," said Doug Clowe of the University of Arizona at Tucson, and leader of the study. "These results are direct proof that dark matter exists."
In galaxy clusters, the normal matter, like the atoms that make up the stars, planets, and everything on Earth, is primarily in the form of hot gas and stars. The mass of the hot gas between the galaxies is far greater than the mass of the stars in all of the galaxies. This normal matter is bound in the cluster by the gravity of an even greater mass of dark matter. Without dark matter, which is invisible and can only be detected through its gravity, the fast-moving galaxies and the hot gas would quickly fly apart.
The team was granted more than 100 hours on the Chandra telescope to observe the galaxy cluster 1E0657-56. The cluster is also known as the bullet cluster, because it contains a spectacular bullet-shaped cloud of hundred-million-degree gas. The X-ray image shows the bullet shape is due to a wind produced by the high-speed collision of a smaller cluster with a larger one.
In addition to the Chandra observation, the Hubble Space Telescope, the European Southern Observatory's Very Large Telescope and the Magellan optical telescopes were used to determine the location of the mass in the clusters. This was done by measuring the effect of gravitational lensing, where gravity from the clusters distorts light from background galaxies as predicted by Einstein's theory of general relativity.
The hot gas in this collision was slowed by a drag force, similar to air resistance. In contrast, the dark matter was not slowed by the impact, because it does not interact directly with itself or the gas except through gravity. This produced the separation of the dark and normal matter seen in the data. If hot gas was the most massive component in the clusters, as proposed by alternative gravity theories, such a separation would not have been seen. Instead, dark matter is required.
"This is the type of result that future theories will have to take into account," said Sean Carroll, a cosmologist at the University of Chicago, who was not involved with the study. "As we move forward to understand the true nature of dark matter, this new result will be impossible to ignore."
This result also gives scientists more confidence that the Newtonian gravity familiar on Earth and in the solar system also works on the huge scales of galaxy clusters.
"We've closed this loophole about gravity, and we've come closer than ever to seeing this invisible matter," Clowe said.
These results are being published in an upcoming issue of The Astrophysical Journal Letters. NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Ala., manages the Chandra program. The Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory controls science and flight operations from the Chandra X-ray Center, Cambridge, Mass. For additional information and images, visit:
Your right i am not educated enough to even discuss this problem but it would seem others who are disagree. A force so powerful it holds these gases in place. So because space is distorted and a gases galaxy not flying apart proves that scientific formulas that were produce by the great one must be correct. Looks to me a formula was developed based off numbers where the solution was a known factor but a theory was needed to explain the other parts of the formula that were missing enter Black matter. I do agree with this formula tho. What I do disagree with is the nature of black matter the invisiable force. I don't for a second believe the big bang theory is correct as science states. It makes zero sense. Now if Black matter existed in the whole of the universe and all the other matter was in one place and Dark matter held it in static state . Now things make more sense. Being held in a static state it would not need to become a black hole as science says it would. That s the only reason i even brought the subject up. Was it also fits the OPs question 1.where can you hide from gravatational forces. I live in a universe that has GOD in it. So dark matter fills the void that science denies. I don't believe there was a big bang but an orderly realocation and disburstment of matter threw the known universe.
In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth was without form and void and darknesswas upon the face of the deep. Than god said let there be light.
Sounds pretty dam close to what happened to me. How could Moses know such things?
1. At a point an infinite distance away from any mass, or in a conceptual introductory physics problem. Pretty much nowhere physically attainable. Even at the center of the earth, you're feeling the effects of the sun's gravity and the rest of the universe.
2. Frictional forces are 2 things in contact. Electromagnetic, Gravity, Weak Force dont require contact. Not so sure bout the strong force, that ones iffy.
2) Forces do not have to be in contact. Look at electrostatic force.
The important thing is there exists a field capable of exerting this force, and this is known as the gravitational field. If you studied electrostatics and the electric field, and electric force, you know there's a similar equation for gravity.
F = GMm/r^2 right? Well the gravitational field is GM/r^2
The important thing is there exists a field capable of exerting this force, and this is known as the gravitational field. If you studied electrostatics and the electric field, and electric force, you know there's a similar equation for gravity.
F = GMm/r^2 right? Well the gravitational field is GM/r^2
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