Photo/video editing, compiling, gaming rig: X48, DDR3?

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ichi1

Junior Member
Apr 27, 2008
10
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Hi,

I need a new computer for gaming, photo editing (5D RAW, CS2, DPP), video editing (Premier Elem.) and work (VC++ 2008 -- very large project).
Performance is more important than money, but I don't want to go crazy either. I expect to spend about $3k.

I will be ordering from NewEgg, Amazon and other stores.
I value speed, stability, quietness, compatibility. I plan to overclock. I'd like to build it ASAP. I already ordered a few components -- as marked below.

I have read a bunch of reviews and forum posts and here's what I have come up with:

Cosmos S (ordered)
Q9450 (ordered)
2 x Raptor X 150GB in RAID (0) (ordered)
Dell 2408 UltraSharp (reuse)
DVD burner + player (reuse)
Vista Business 64 OEM (ordered)
Sound card (Audigy, Audigy 2, or X-Fi, reuse) or onboard sound
PNY 8800GTS 512 (may get upgraded to a next gen card once they come out) (ordered $155 AR from Amazon)
PC Power and Cooling S75QB Silencer 750W Quad
SILVERSTONE NT06-LITE CPU Cooler -- limited availability, so I got this one instead:
Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme (ordered) with SILVERSTONE FM121 120mm Case Fan

These were the options I orginally was considering:
ASUS P5E3 Premium WiFi X48
4GB DDR3 RAM (which??) Options:
OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) OCZ3P16004GK -- 7-7-7-24 -- $295.99 AR (best deal?)
OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) OCZ3P1600EB4GK -- 7-6-6-24 -- $420.99
OCZ Reaper HPC 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) OCZ3RPR13334GK -- 6-6-6-18 -- $310.99 (with heat pipes -- will I be able to fit four of them in the P5E3?)
OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) OCZ3P13334GK -- $249.99 AR -- 7-7-7-20
Click to expand...

But after reading comments in this thread I am now considering:
mushkin 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) -- 5-5-5-15 -- $129.99
mushkin 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) Model 996593-REDLINE -- 5-5-5-12 -- $94.99 AR

2 x 1 TB drives in RAID 0 for data (backed up to external drives that I already have in place)

I will be using two RAID0 arrays, putting the OS and swap on one and C++ files, photo and video caches on the other.

My biggest concern right now is choosing the right RAM, but any comments are welcome.

I have read in other threads that people recommend DDR2 over DDR3, but reviews of X48 motherboards make me think that DDR3 might be the way to go now. But it would be interesting to have a discussion of this topic.

Here's AnandTech's Kris Boughton talking about how X48 may be better than older chipsets when it comes to high performance From: AnandTech's P5E3 X48 review (p.5):

It's hard to argue with the performance potential this system brings at these settings, something that current X38 users might find impossible when aiming for total stability. Perhaps the most impressive point in this accomplishment is that our MCH required only 1.35V in order to run hour after hour of Prime95 or other stress tests without error. There are those that may believe this is not much to speak of, but the combination of high CPU speed and low tRD is brutal on the MCH - something we plan to explore soon in great detail. In fact, this is exactly where the X48 chipset begins to shine - in some of the situations where the X38 would either fall flat on its face or require voltages well in excess of those we feel comfortable using on a daily basis.
Click to expand...

Thanks!
- ichi1
 
B

Blain

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
23,643
3
81
From the looks of it, you're serious about making your PC work.
* What RAID card are you planning on? For someone so serious, you won't want to be using the castrated onboard controller.
* With your high-end video work, have you considered a workstation video card over the gaming card?
* Being so professional, you'll also want to use ECC memory rather than the less relable non-ECC.
"Error Correcting Code (ECC) offers protection of memory errors which results in greater data integrity and system uptime"
* You'll have to stick with DDR3 since the MB you've chosen doesn't support DDR2.

Considering your price range... Have you thought about a Mac Pro with Dual Quad Core Xeons?
 
I

ichi1

Junior Member
Apr 27, 2008
10
0
0
Originally posted by: Blain
From the looks of it, you're serious about making your PC work.
* What RAID card are you planning on? For someone so serious, you won't want to be using the castrated onboard controller.
* With your high-end video work, have you considered a workstation video card over the gaming card?
* Being so professional, you'll also want to use ECC memory rather than the less relable non-ECC.
"Error Correcting Code (ECC) offers protection of memory errors which results in greater data integrity and system uptime"
* You'll have to stick with DDR3 since the MB you've chosen doesn't support DDR2.

Considering your price range... Have you thought about a Mac Pro with Dual Quad Core Xeons?
Click to expand...

Well, part of the fun of building a new computer is researching the parts. I am not doing "high-end video work", just editing DV of the kids playing. The photo work is semi-serious, I guess. :)
Yeah, getting a RAID card may be a good idea. Adaptec seems to come out on top in the recent Maximum PC review. I will have to research this some more.
When I am talking about reliability, I am thinking more of stable drivers. I think ECC vs. non-ECC would make less of a difference. Don't you?

None of the parts that I haven't yet ordered, are set in stone. Other motherboards are possible. Suggestions?

Cheers,
- ichi1
 
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Roguestar

Diamond Member
Aug 29, 2006
6,045
0
0
I wouldn't buy remotely as high end hardware as you've just invested in for "editing DV of the kids playing" and "semi-serious photo work". Especially I'd not waste (that's right, waste) money on a Raptor RAID-0 setup using motherboard RAID. You're definitely overthinking and overestimating your needs here. Go with what Blain said and stick to something reasonable and yet good performance like a P35 motherboard and DDR2.
 
I

ichi1

Junior Member
Apr 27, 2008
10
0
0
Originally posted by: Roguestar
I wouldn't buy remotely as high end hardware as you've just invested in for "editing DV of the kids playing" and "semi-serious photo work". Especially I'd not waste (that's right, waste) money on a Raptor RAID-0 setup using motherboard RAID. You're definitely overthinking and overestimating your needs here. Go with what Blain said and stick to something reasonable and yet good performance like a P35 motherboard and DDR2.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input.
It is not a waste of money to go with onboard RAID for small arrays. I did some research on it and found this thread on XtremeSystems. If you scroll down the page, you can read several useful posts. The conclusion seems to be that add-in cards are useful for multi-drive arrays and RAID configurations other than 0 and 1, but that there aren't any optimizations you can do for a two drive RAID-0 array on an add-in card that you can't do on an onboard chip, and you generate the same interrupts to the CPU.

Besides video/photo work, the computer will be used for gaming and work. Gaming may not benefit that much from a RAID system (or maybe it does considering that nearly all high-end system configurators use it), but I do think that file intensive work like compiling/linking will benefit.

But you may be right about the mb and RAM. Maybe it is still to early for DDR3 to make sense in terms of bang for the buck. But most direct comparisons I have seen are several months old and no longer relevant. It would be interesting to see a DDR2/3 comparison on an X48 board with an overclocked 45nm CPU.

What Gigabyte board and what RAM would you recommend?

The P5E3 X48 is $369 and 4GB of OCZ Platinum DDR3 1600 7-7-7-24 is $296. To go with DDR2 I think the performance difference should be less than, say, 20% and the board should have comparable features (less the WiFi AP).

Also, I may have sounded (if you read it out loud) serious in the first post, but this build is really also about having fun. :D

Cheers
- ichi1
 
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Roguestar

Diamond Member
Aug 29, 2006
6,045
0
0
My point was that RAID-0 gives no noticeable performance benefit, especially if you're not using a dedicated RAID card. For "no noticeable benefit" you're paying double, and halving your MTBF.

If you want a comparably stable and overclock-happy P35 board, check out the Gigabyte P35 DS3R (with onboard RAID, should you so desire it), and I'd recommend this RAM to go with it:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231122

 
R

Roguestar

Diamond Member
Aug 29, 2006
6,045
0
0
I

ichi1

Junior Member
Apr 27, 2008
10
0
0
Originally posted by: Roguestar
My point was that RAID-0 gives no noticeable performance benefit, especially if you're not using a dedicated RAID card. For "no noticeable benefit" you're paying double, and halving your MTBF.
Click to expand...
I think there is a benefit from running RAID-0 using onboard controllers. Here's some data from Maximum PC to back that up. Also check out the discussion at XtremeSystems, to which I posted a link above.

Cheers
- ichi1
 
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ichi1

Junior Member
Apr 27, 2008
10
0
0
Originally posted by: Roguestar
I meant the Gigabyte P35C DS3, sorry.

NE seems to only have these at the moment: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...8R&Tpk=gigabyte%2bp35c

RAM alternative: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231145 <- faster, so may overclock a higher FSB CPU easier.

The Gigabyte P35 and 4GB DDR2 combo is pretty highly recommended across these forums, the performance is great and comparable to a DDR3/X48 setup; you probably won't notice the difference unless you get into synthetic benchmarks.
Click to expand...

The P35 is a bit old now. Is it wise to invest in it now, do you think? I know it is still ICH9, but surely other things have advanced since it was introduced? The reviews of this board compare it to P965 and i975X boards... You say I probably wouldn't notice the difference, but could you point me to some data to back that up? :)

DDR2 may be the way to go, but should I be looking at an X38 or X48 board? Anything to recommend there?

Thanks!
- ichi
 
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ichi

Junior Member
Oct 15, 2004
19
0
0
[ichi1 here...]

What about ASUS P5E X38 and 8GB of fast DDR2? :D
The board is just a little more than the DS3 and a bit newer. I would still save a bunch by not getting DDR3 allowing me to get 8GB instead of 4GB (which will hurt, overclocking -- I know...)
 
DSF

DSF

Diamond Member
Oct 6, 2007
4,902
0
71
Unless your editing apps will make use of 8GB it's probably a waste. Gaming won't.

As far as the X38 it doesn't really do anything for you, and it's just as "old" as P35. The main advantage of X38 is allowing full-blown Crossfire support, but since you're not using an ATI graphics card in the first place, that's meaningless. Granted, X38 also has PCI-e 2.0 support, but current graphics cards don't even saturate PCI-e 1.0.
 
GuitarDaddy

GuitarDaddy

Lifer
Nov 9, 2004
11,465
1
0
The performance numbers for P35,X38,X48 are the same for all intents and purposes.

I agree with the recommended P35 board and DDR2 ram. Socket 775 boards are obsolete by the end of the year and all future upgrades will require a new socket, and since the X38/48 gives no tangible performance over P35 it's pretty pointless. And DDR3 is just as pointless, 5x the price for a few % in synthetic benches:thumbsdown:
 
B

Blain

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
23,643
3
81

I'm not a fan of OCZ anything.
Get the Muskin DDR2 rated to run at 1.8v.

1. It's Mushkin
2. It's rated higher than the FSB of the CPU you ordered.
3. It's rated at the JEDEC DDR2 standard of 1.8v.
4. It's cheaper after rebate than the OCZ memory.
 
gsellis

gsellis

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2003
6,061
0
0
Originally posted by: ichi
[ichi1 here...]
Click to expand...
Multiple accounts here are verbotten. PM the Anandtech Moderator to help you clear up having 2 accounts.

R0 does buy you a little performance, but Premiere Elements is not a heavy app. I have not used it, but Adobe does mention using Video and Scratch. Video on E: and F: for scratch would possible be your best configuraton (no R0 for the 1TB drives).

You may need to also verify that Premiere Elements will work in Vista 64.
 
I

ichi

Junior Member
Oct 15, 2004
19
0
0
Originally posted by: Blain

I'm not a fan of OCZ anything.
Get the Muskin DDR2 rated to run at 1.8v.

1. It's Mushkin
2. It's rated higher than the FSB of the CPU you ordered.
3. It's rated at the JEDEC DDR2 standard of 1.8v.
4. It's cheaper after rebate than the OCZ memory.
Click to expand...

Why don't you like OCZ? I was under the impression that their products and support were pretty good?

The Mushkin kit looks like a good deal. I assume you would recommend this slightly faster kit too?
 
B

Blain

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
23,643
3
81
OCZ has had a terrible reputation in the past for quality.
Besides their quality history, I've had new memory kits that generated errors no matter how much voltage was applied.
If you've been a long time reader of the forums here, you'd have read the same thing about OCZ quality.

They have tried to turn that reputation around by acquiring PC Power & Cooling last year. I hope it works for them.

Mushkin's always had a reputation for rock solid, high quality memory. :thumbsup::laugh:
 
I

ichi

Junior Member
Oct 15, 2004
19
0
0
Originally posted by: gsellis
Originally posted by: ichi
[ichi1 here...]
Click to expand...
Multiple accounts here are verbotten. PM the Anandtech Moderator to help you clear up having 2 accounts.
Click to expand...
I have alerted a mod. Thanks.

Originally posted by: gsellis
R0 does buy you a little performance, but Premiere Elements is not a heavy app. I have not used it, but Adobe does mention using Video and Scratch. Video on E: and F: for scratch would possible be your best configuraton (no R0 for the 1TB drives).

You may need to also verify that Premiere Elements will work in Vista 64.
Click to expand...
I chose dual RAID-0 mostly for compiling, but it probably won't hurt performance for other apps.

Cheers
- ichi
 
C

chinaman1472

Senior member
Nov 20, 2007
614
0
0
OCZ isn't bad, except the voltage is typically high for standard speeds (DDR2-800). I haven't found much difference from brand to brand though as long as they have heat spreaders... (Kingston, Corsair, OCZ, SuperTalent). As long as it has 1.8-1.9 voltage rating from a "decent" brand, it shouldn't be a problem.

I'd go with a cheap Quad Core with 4GB RAM. Q6600 or Q9300. I use to invest in "expensive" motherboards but came to the conclusion a lot of extras are just that. If you don't need them, don't pay for them.
 
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ichi

Junior Member
Oct 15, 2004
19
0
0
Ok, I am done. Ordered the Rampage and RAM yesterday. Here's the whole system:

Cosmos S
ASUS Rampage Formula (X48)
Q9450
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ
PNY 8800GTS 512 (may get upgraded to a next gen card once they come out)
2 x Raptor X 150GB in RAID (0)
Dell 2408 UltraSharp
DVD burner + player
Vista Business 64 OEM
X-Fi and onboard sound
PC Power and Cooling S75QB Silencer 750W Quad
Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme with SILVERSTONE FM121 120mm Case Fan

Thanks for your suggestions! :thumbsup:

- ichi
 
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Urtho

Member
Feb 9, 2000
162
0
0
Everyone steers you towards a good solid and much cheaper P35 board as well as avoiding any RAID issues and you ignore them? Hmm... well it's your system, enjoy it I guess.
 
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ichi

Junior Member
Oct 15, 2004
19
0
0
Originally posted by: Blain
Originally posted by: ichi

X-Fi and onboard sound
Click to expand...
??:roll:??
Click to expand...

I will have to evaluate the sound quality of the onboard sound first. They say it is very good (which is one reason that board is more expensive).
At work I use an Audigy 2 for DVD Audio discs (with Sennheiser HD-600 headphones) along with crappy onboard sound for Skype etc.
 
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