Phoenix/Award BIOS is now Spyware!!!???

A/\EKC

Member
Mar 15, 2000
133
0
0
(reposted from Sysopt Forum)
(Reposted from the Fred Langa's newsletter. Sorry about the crummy formatting. I didn't have time to fix it all.)

Oh No! *Hardware-Based* Phone Home Apps!

It's true: Phoenix, the BIOS people (they make the Phoenix and Award BIOSes), recently launched PhoenixNet, which will work with an advertising-based phone-home app built right into the hardware of your PC. Although the announcement is couched in careful terms, the gist is clear. "...system builders and resellers... can use PhoenixNet's services to distribute... products and services to millions of users." Millions of captive users, that is.

According to the PhoenixNet site:
The PhoenixNet Internet Launch System (ILS) is a patent-pending technology built into the firmware of your PC.
PhoenixNet's technology resides safely within ROM (Read Only Memory). PhoenixNet is activated automatically at the initial launch of your new PC....
Once running, the PhoenixNet software will use your Internet connection to force-feed you downloads, advertising, "sites to see," and support services. The PhoenixNet utility apparently integrates with Windows; it's controlled--- if that's the word--- via a system tray applet.
However, because at least some of this code is operating at the firmware/BIOS level, it's possible for this code to run "below the radar" of the OS or of local desktop firewalls. It could be difficult to know just what this code was doing, or when it's doing it.
Why is Phoenix doing this? The PhoenixNet site (http://home.phoenixnet.com/about/index.html )
spins it one way:
New and experienced users alike face some tough hurdles whentrying to get running on a new computer. From connecting to the Internet to learning about and managing their PC. How do they get started? ... Now, thanks to PhoenixNet, the solution is only a mouse click away. Save time and effort by using PhoenixNet built into the PC.... PhoenixNet services can be individually customized to meet the needs of any user. This service continues over the life of the PC. And it's free.
But despite this happytalk explanation, to me this doesn't look like an impartial third-party advisor to end users, but rather an advertising vehicle. The PhoenixNet site says, "... we select the best providers of these products and enter into partnerships with them in order to provide these tools directly through our network," To me, this sounds like: "Vendors pay us, or give us a cut of their action, to get their stuff listed on PhoenixNet."
PhoenixNet may be hard to avoid: A number of motherboard makers have already agreed to start using PhoenixNet: They include: Abit, AOpen, Chaintech, ECS, EpoX, Giga-Byte, Jetway, Legend-QDI, MSI, Soltek and Zida.

For biased info on this, see the PhoenixNet FAQ at http://home.phoenixnet.com/about/index.html#fre ; for third-party, independent views, see Steve Gibson's GRC newsgroup on 'spyware:" Point your senet/newsgroup reader at news.grc.com, and join the grc.spyware discussion.
 

AppleTalking

Golden Member
Dec 15, 2000
1,316
0
0
Great, now we have to look at advertisements generated from the BIOS?! And I thought pop-up ads were bad . . . :(

Nick
 

A/\EKC

Member
Mar 15, 2000
133
0
0
Besides that, Big (or Little) Brother might be looking at you from behind the screen ;).
Not talking of the whole new world of security issues....
 

Zuluwarrior

Senior member
Nov 6, 2000
252
0
0
SO THAT's What's been messin with my windows settings?????

I downloaded the latest Epox bios on their website and instead
of the bios screen you normally used to see checking mem etc etc.
it's a pretty white graphic with Phonenixnet at the top
and it sez, verifying mem, chipspeed, hd's and then it sez "loading os"

you can hit tab to see the old bios activity screen

I thought nothing of it until I noticed that every 2 or 3 days,
a popup would shoot out of nowhere saying my homepage settings had
changed, did i want to revert to old......

I of course said "HELL YES" i wanna revert to old, I can pick my own homepage
thank u very much.....

But sure as I'm typing this.....IT DID NOT REVERT BACK TO MY CHOICE
but changed it to yahoo.com........and another time it changed it to shopnow.com or
some such site.......

If i went into internet options/default homepage settings, the window had a bunch
of gibberish like redirect:::BLAH BLAH BLAH but inside all that crap was definetely
the word PHOENIXNET!!!!

Mark my word on this guys!!!!

If you own a motherboard on the aforementioned list including MSI, Epox
and the others, you NEED to send a BUNCH of emails to every box
you can find of their telling em we don't need a bios level ad popup service
and homepage changer/redirecter! They need to know that this is bullshit
and that we have plenty enough talent to navigate the web on our OWN!

Now guys, how the hell do I revert back to the old bios before this one?
or is there a way to ex out just the phoneixnet big brother/spammer part??
 

A/\EKC

Member
Mar 15, 2000
133
0
0
Bozo, are you working for Phoenix? A number of users at Sysopt claimed to have similar problems with newer BIOS.
ZULU, unless you have BIOS option to disable PhoenixNet, I'm afraid - you screwed.
 

bozo1

Diamond Member
May 21, 2001
6,364
0
0
No I don't work for Phoenix, I just think alot of what is going around is pure hysteria. While I don't like the Spyware thing any more than anyone else, it is there as an open for OEM's to do things with if they choose on the systems they sell. It is not being utilized by any vendor yet, #1 and #2 it requires an application piece to be installed on the system before it will do anything - just flashing to a phoenixnet equipt BIOS does not install this piece and finally, #3 just disable the thing if you are paranoid.


 

A/\EKC

Member
Mar 15, 2000
133
0
0
Maybe you right. Maybe you wrong. I still remember all the buzz surrounding Pentium ID. However, I guess you'll agreeon this one, what's been offered as an innocent candy could turn into piece of ch^t later in your mouth.
Especially, when you're dealing with such low level programs. You ignore it now, you'll forget all about it later, finally you'll be awaken by some unpleasant surprise.
IMHO, I'd like to know as much as possible about the issue now, than cry later.
 

bozo1

Diamond Member
May 21, 2001
6,364
0
0
We agree. :) If this turned into a monster, I'm sure the backlash would be so great that it would die.

I think it could, with proper disclosure, be a good thing for your average illeterate or semi-literate computer user buying a store-bought brand. This could be an easy way for the manufacturer to 'optionally' deliver driver updates, BIOS updates, etc., to the computer. Many of these people live with stupid problems and quirks that could easily be fixed via such updates. Forget the ad crap, tho.
 

IdahoB

Senior member
Jun 5, 2001
458
0
0
Just remember, for anything at hardware or firmware level to affect your windows applications, it requires full support in the OS (to happen without you realising) or alternatively the installation of a third party utility. So don't panic.
 

hairygit

Member
May 11, 2001
135
0
0


<< A number of motherboard makers have already agreed to start using PhoenixNet: They include: Abit, AOpen, Chaintech, ECS, EpoX, Giga-Byte, Jetway, Legend-QDI, MSI, Soltek and Zida. >>



This seems to leave only Asus for DDR Socket A boards!!!!!

There goes the hard choice I had to make.
a7m266 or a7a266 or should I await the a7v266?
 

HansXP

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2001
3,093
0
0
Try doing a search before posting...this has been discussed several times.



<< There goes the hard choice I had to make.
a7m266 or a7a266 or should I await the a7v266?
>>



If you want a DDR board, don't bother with the A7A or A7V series - they aren't fast enough thanks to their lackluster chipsets. The A7M266 is the way to go if you need one now. If you can wait until fall, the nForce chipset will be own and owning all of the rest :)

 

hairygit

Member
May 11, 2001
135
0
0
Cheers for the advice, but am looking for 3 DDR slots on mobo, and also unfortunately need a mobo soon.

Therefore, due to a boycott on all mobos using Phoenix, I will have to go Iwill, or stick it with, as you sugget A7m266..... ouch
Too many problems in anandtech forums with this board.
 

klein297

Senior member
Apr 24, 2001
753
0
0
I got the same thing with my Soltek. I just deleted everything associated with phoenix net. All I see is the phoenix logo on startup. I havnt seen any ads or such. Can it get past my firewall without permission? Thanks for the info.
 

shawnman

Member
Mar 14, 2001
141
0
0
My new Iwill kk266 discusses this in the manual, but there are no signs of it actually being implemented
 

Zuluwarrior

Senior member
Nov 6, 2000
252
0
0
Apparently according to Epox, phoenixnet is disabled by default in
their optimal bios settings......
I got home and checked and they're right.............

but, bozo, I find it less than credible that something ELSE is changing
my homepage setting every few days and switching it to a random
site of someone else's choosing when it is doing it RIGHT AFTER A
FRESH INSTALL OF WIN98...........no other software loaded!

That kinda indicates that even though it's disabled, it might
still be rootin around in the innards of yer system....

Not good for business, epox!