Dr. Zaus
Lifer
- Oct 16, 2008
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disappoint
Lifer
- Dec 7, 2009
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Cerpin Taxt
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
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If there was something of significance to be taken from your post, yes, I clearly missed it.
I find a connection between these posts:
1. The soul is an idea. The idea originated out of fear. Specifically the fear of death. Death has set up in people's minds a sort of cognitive dissonance. I've explained cognitive dissonance multiple times on these boards with the Fox and the Grapes of Aesop's fable fame before so I'll spare you all that again and instead take the education into how your mind functions a step further with a quote from rational wiki:
2. What isn't an idea?
3. Everybody should experience a meditative or drug induced ego death IMO because it helps to put their ego/existence into perspective. A lot of (most I'd say) religions were created around such experiences.
What if the soul is an idea an idea born of fear, and all the wiki nonsense is just more cognitive dissonance, to explain away that fear, just more ideas born of fear, the need for rational minds to find some anchor in a sea of ignorance.
I see this as likely because it seems to me that thought itself is fear, a fragment of self that presumes to speak as if it were the whole self. Thought is duality, the naming and categorization of things. It depends on memory and words and thus is always of the past. And to all those words with all their meanings, there is attached the memory of emotions those words have evoked in the past. This fragment, the thinker, is separate from the body and does not partake of the now. It is busy thinking.
So what is this ego death that drugs can bring. In my opinion, the psychic energy to stop time, the overwhelming of the kingdom of the thinker, the shattering of the tinker's world view, terror and ego death that can't be avoided. The transformation of ones conscious state to one that is here in the present, destroys the ego. It is the realization that ideas are meaningless that dies, that they do not and cannot exist in the presence that is here in the now. The fiction that the thinker is the self is destroyed. There is no self, there is only everything undivided. Ones consciousness is present at the moment of creation and everything that happens, happens by will. In this state the lover and the beloved disappear in Love.
I would call the spirit the energy required to end thought, and the soul the state of undifferentiated love.
1. The soul is an idea. The idea originated out of fear. Specifically the fear of death. Death has set up in people's minds a sort of cognitive dissonance. I've explained cognitive dissonance multiple times on these boards with the Fox and the Grapes of Aesop's fable fame before so I'll spare you all that again and instead take the education into how your mind functions a step further with a quote from rational wiki:
2. What isn't an idea?
3. Everybody should experience a meditative or drug induced ego death IMO because it helps to put their ego/existence into perspective. A lot of (most I'd say) religions were created around such experiences.
What if the soul is an idea an idea born of fear, and all the wiki nonsense is just more cognitive dissonance, to explain away that fear, just more ideas born of fear, the need for rational minds to find some anchor in a sea of ignorance.
I see this as likely because it seems to me that thought itself is fear, a fragment of self that presumes to speak as if it were the whole self. Thought is duality, the naming and categorization of things. It depends on memory and words and thus is always of the past. And to all those words with all their meanings, there is attached the memory of emotions those words have evoked in the past. This fragment, the thinker, is separate from the body and does not partake of the now. It is busy thinking.
So what is this ego death that drugs can bring. In my opinion, the psychic energy to stop time, the overwhelming of the kingdom of the thinker, the shattering of the tinker's world view, terror and ego death that can't be avoided. The transformation of ones conscious state to one that is here in the present, destroys the ego. It is the realization that ideas are meaningless that dies, that they do not and cannot exist in the presence that is here in the now. The fiction that the thinker is the self is destroyed. There is no self, there is only everything undivided. Ones consciousness is present at the moment of creation and everything that happens, happens by will. In this state the lover and the beloved disappear in Love.
I would call the spirit the energy required to end thought, and the soul the state of undifferentiated love.
disappoint
Lifer
- Dec 7, 2009
- 10,132
- 382
- 126
Oh yes I can't wait to tell people how awesome I've become since destroying my ego with drugs and religion.
I think what you couldn't wait to do was announce the close connection that exists between fear and contempt. What better delusion to practice than the notion that because one can spew out words about cognitive dissonance, that one is thereby free of it. The ego comes into existence to protect us from threat and like the hammer seeing everything as a nail, threat is all that it perceives.
Hang on tight to that ego because there's madness waiting for you if you let go. People don't fear death, my dear disappoint, they fear remembering they already died.
disappoint
Lifer
- Dec 7, 2009
- 10,132
- 382
- 126
Well that's about the only thing you got right so I'll address that and ignore all of the other nonsense you posted.
Yes you're right I have great contempt for BS for I have seen how humanity has and will continue to suffer from it's ill effects. And of course people that are sane would naturally fear suffering.
The BS and subsequent suffering I'm talking about in case it's not obvious is the escape from reality rabbit hole people fall into when they take drugs, religion and other forms of dissociation to extremes.
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We come from completely different places. You are full of unexamined assumptions you believe in, that are at the root of your opinions. I see them as such because I don't make them:
d: The soul is an idea. The idea originated out of fear. Specifically the fear of death. Death has set up in people's minds a sort of cognitive dissonance. I've explained cognitive dissonance multiple times on these boards with the Fox and the Grapes of Aesop's fable fame before so I'll spare you all that again and instead take the education into how your mind functions a step further with a quote from rational wiki:
M: Here we see your faith displayed, the notion that religious belief is rooted in fear. And yet the religious experience I had, if it even should be called that, came after I lost my religious faith and was quite convinced that when I die it's my end. I had already lost that battle and had no hope of anything. My truth appeared, not by any effort of my own because I had given up, but by something I can only call grace, the result of a rapid switch in my conscious state that caused an integrative insight. It is as likely to me therefore, that religion didn't arise out of a fear of death, but the collapse of duality and the return to ones original state possible only when what you call BS has been abandoned as a fools errand.
d: Oh yes I can't wait to tell people how awesome I've become since destroying my ego with drugs and religion.
M: You start with the assumption that because drugs and religion can be terrible things that what I had to say about them was a recommendation in that direction, that what I said had something to do with destruction. This is how unexamined assumptions lead to bigotry. You know that being healthy physically and mentally is better than being sick and insane, and graft on that the notion that what you have come to believe, you and your ego, know how and when to apply judgment, that what you call healthy and sane are the genuine article. I believe that drugs and religion are bad in some cases and have other results on others, depending on what changes in their conscious understanding. You are full of opinions that I don't have.
d: Well that's about the only thing you got right so I'll address that and ignore all of the other nonsense you posted.
M: You know what is nonsense and what is not. Same kind of bigotry. You think you know what is nonsense and what is not. You know what I do not because I lost that assumption long ago.
d: Yes you're right I have great contempt for BS for I have seen how humanity has and will continue to suffer from it's ill effects.
M: Of course, but you also assume your capacity to differentiate bull shit from wisdom when to me wisdom lies in not making that assumption. You are basically use the evil that can come from BS to be arrogant. You can't dirty your hands and make such a terrible mistake. I don't assume I'm BS free and try not to add contempt for it to the reasons I would practice cognitive dissonance in that regard in my own case. What I see is that you are what you fear and in part because of that fear.
d: And of course people that are sane would naturally fear suffering.
Naturally in the state of what you call sanity this is true. But you are delusional if you think you do not suffer. We have all been through worse than a concentration camp but do not remember. One of the ways back to mental health IS to suffer because when one suffers, really suffers, one heals. Suffering is the act of compassion for the self, real grief that liberates and honors the hurt child inside. That you do not know this speaks volumes about your self understanding.
d: The BS and subsequent suffering I'm talking about in case it's not obvious is the escape from reality rabbit hole people fall into when they take drugs, religion and other forms of dissociation to extremes.
M: Such means offer escape because they supply an alternative dream, a set of unexamined assumptions to live by, just has you do with all the assumptions you make. Who knows, you might be better off if you weren't so sure of things, especially about conscious states you may not have experienced.
d: The soul is an idea. The idea originated out of fear. Specifically the fear of death. Death has set up in people's minds a sort of cognitive dissonance. I've explained cognitive dissonance multiple times on these boards with the Fox and the Grapes of Aesop's fable fame before so I'll spare you all that again and instead take the education into how your mind functions a step further with a quote from rational wiki:
M: Here we see your faith displayed, the notion that religious belief is rooted in fear. And yet the religious experience I had, if it even should be called that, came after I lost my religious faith and was quite convinced that when I die it's my end. I had already lost that battle and had no hope of anything. My truth appeared, not by any effort of my own because I had given up, but by something I can only call grace, the result of a rapid switch in my conscious state that caused an integrative insight. It is as likely to me therefore, that religion didn't arise out of a fear of death, but the collapse of duality and the return to ones original state possible only when what you call BS has been abandoned as a fools errand.
d: Oh yes I can't wait to tell people how awesome I've become since destroying my ego with drugs and religion.
M: You start with the assumption that because drugs and religion can be terrible things that what I had to say about them was a recommendation in that direction, that what I said had something to do with destruction. This is how unexamined assumptions lead to bigotry. You know that being healthy physically and mentally is better than being sick and insane, and graft on that the notion that what you have come to believe, you and your ego, know how and when to apply judgment, that what you call healthy and sane are the genuine article. I believe that drugs and religion are bad in some cases and have other results on others, depending on what changes in their conscious understanding. You are full of opinions that I don't have.
d: Well that's about the only thing you got right so I'll address that and ignore all of the other nonsense you posted.
M: You know what is nonsense and what is not. Same kind of bigotry. You think you know what is nonsense and what is not. You know what I do not because I lost that assumption long ago.
d: Yes you're right I have great contempt for BS for I have seen how humanity has and will continue to suffer from it's ill effects.
M: Of course, but you also assume your capacity to differentiate bull shit from wisdom when to me wisdom lies in not making that assumption. You are basically use the evil that can come from BS to be arrogant. You can't dirty your hands and make such a terrible mistake. I don't assume I'm BS free and try not to add contempt for it to the reasons I would practice cognitive dissonance in that regard in my own case. What I see is that you are what you fear and in part because of that fear.
d: And of course people that are sane would naturally fear suffering.
Naturally in the state of what you call sanity this is true. But you are delusional if you think you do not suffer. We have all been through worse than a concentration camp but do not remember. One of the ways back to mental health IS to suffer because when one suffers, really suffers, one heals. Suffering is the act of compassion for the self, real grief that liberates and honors the hurt child inside. That you do not know this speaks volumes about your self understanding.
d: The BS and subsequent suffering I'm talking about in case it's not obvious is the escape from reality rabbit hole people fall into when they take drugs, religion and other forms of dissociation to extremes.
M: Such means offer escape because they supply an alternative dream, a set of unexamined assumptions to live by, just has you do with all the assumptions you make. Who knows, you might be better off if you weren't so sure of things, especially about conscious states you may not have experienced.
disappoint
Lifer
- Dec 7, 2009
- 10,132
- 382
- 126
Duality is an habituation, a conditioning, attribution of qualities to things to differentiate one thing from another. This is made possible by thought and language. There was a time in human history before language came into being and in childhood, when we reacted on pure instinct and feeling, when self reflection, analytical thought could not exist, when we could carry no stories or personal history to be transmitted from one to the next. If we were injured we suffered, if hurt bad enough, we died, with only the instinct of survival to keep us alive, self preservation and the survival of the family and tribe the top of the priority game. Nothing could be invented that was not real and nothing unreal imagined.
All that changed with the evolution of language and the capacity to think in words. We ate from the tree of knowledge and invented good and evil. We could tell each other what is good and what is evil and drive the lessons home with violence and pain. We invented a way to use words to put each other down and in our proper place, to insure our children would conform to culture and fit in. We learned to divide, to separate, to invent concepts that do not exist, to create a world of duality, right wrong left right up down good evil etc. We learned to associate behaviors with pain, to feel guilt and regret, self loathing as per how we were trained.
The question is, do we live in such a delusion, a world of duality that does not exist except as our minds were taught to validate it. And if we can see into this delusion, that everything we were taught is a lie, can that duality collapse. Can the self that is the product of faith in all BS let go of it. Is the mind capable of an experience that returns it to its original state where assumptions about reality cease and only the wordless real emanates? If so, only those who experience such a transformation would know. Everybody else can have their own opinion.
All that changed with the evolution of language and the capacity to think in words. We ate from the tree of knowledge and invented good and evil. We could tell each other what is good and what is evil and drive the lessons home with violence and pain. We invented a way to use words to put each other down and in our proper place, to insure our children would conform to culture and fit in. We learned to divide, to separate, to invent concepts that do not exist, to create a world of duality, right wrong left right up down good evil etc. We learned to associate behaviors with pain, to feel guilt and regret, self loathing as per how we were trained.
The question is, do we live in such a delusion, a world of duality that does not exist except as our minds were taught to validate it. And if we can see into this delusion, that everything we were taught is a lie, can that duality collapse. Can the self that is the product of faith in all BS let go of it. Is the mind capable of an experience that returns it to its original state where assumptions about reality cease and only the wordless real emanates? If so, only those who experience such a transformation would know. Everybody else can have their own opinion.
Dr. Zaus
Lifer
- Oct 16, 2008
- 11,764
- 347
- 126
That reminds me of the story om Majnun and Layla. http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/sunrise/49-99-0/mi-jcok.htm
In one version somebody becomes curious as to who Layla is and why she holds such power over Majnun, so he goes to seek a glimpse of her and comes back rather disappointed. He tells Majnun that she's not that special but he replies that to see the beauty of Layla you have to have Majnun's eyes.
ringtail
Golden Member
- Mar 10, 2012
- 1,030
- 34
- 91
QUOTE
To enjoy a real Christmas you should celebrate the birth of Christ Consciousness in the spiritual centers of divine perception in the brain and spine. In deep meditation you behold all the astral lights of the spinal centers, and there is an exchange of the Christ Consciousness and your consciousness. That is the real Christmas festivity.
When the Christ Consciousness comes to you, you find within you the whole cosmos, with whirling worlds and universes hanging like ornaments around the Christmas tree of the spine. That is how Jesus celebrated "Christmas," the birth of Christ Consciousness within him.− Paramahansa Yogananda, in The Second Coming of Christ: The Resurrection of the Christ Within You
END QUOTE
To enjoy a real Christmas you should celebrate the birth of Christ Consciousness in the spiritual centers of divine perception in the brain and spine. In deep meditation you behold all the astral lights of the spinal centers, and there is an exchange of the Christ Consciousness and your consciousness. That is the real Christmas festivity.
When the Christ Consciousness comes to you, you find within you the whole cosmos, with whirling worlds and universes hanging like ornaments around the Christmas tree of the spine. That is how Jesus celebrated "Christmas," the birth of Christ Consciousness within him.− Paramahansa Yogananda, in The Second Coming of Christ: The Resurrection of the Christ Within You
END QUOTE
QUOTE
"There's a sucker born every minute"
David Hannum (often misattributed to P.T. Barnum)
END QUOTE
Might be quicker to spend Christmas day serving lunch to people in your local homeless shelter. I'm sure JC would approve.
ringtail
Golden Member
- Mar 10, 2012
- 1,030
- 34
- 91
Caravaggio,
Yes, congratulations! You've given the ONLY FEASIBLE explanation for why you voted for this president, and why you helped re-up him for 4-more years to hurt America, and why you actuall entertain Hillary - one of the most evil personalities to ever emerge in USA politics, as a viable possibility for commander in chief..to tear America down still more. Gullible sucker
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What on earth is all that drivel about? I have made no comment about US politics. I am not American and you have no clue how I vote. You appear to have high blood pressure, all that meditation seems not to be working.
My response to your 'hippy' quote about imaginary "astral-spinal Christ consciousness centers(sic)" had two aims:
1) to alert other readers to the likelihood that you are a completely de-corticated twit
and
2) to point out, that should you really wish to understand Christ's mindset, you can skip the meditative hors d'oeuvre and go straight to the main course by involving yourself in charitable work directly, with the poor, ill or needy. As he did.
Clear?
disappoint
Lifer
- Dec 7, 2009
- 10,132
- 382
- 126
Hehe. Well said. Most Christians are so unlike Christ they give the extremely few good ones a bad name. That is because religions attract the insane like moths to a flame.
They most likely don't intend to do that. They just simply don't know any better.
MongGrel
Lifer
- Dec 3, 2013
- 38,466
- 3,067
- 121
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