Philly Teacher Assaulted and Neck Broken Over IPod

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: SirStev0
Germantown is not a bad section of philly. It is a suburban area. Philly schools are set up in a very unusually way though. One school is very nice, has all suburban kids; one down the street is basically hell with poor kids from the ghetto. Who knows? I wouldn't be surprised if these kids were spoiled rich kids.

eh....its not horrible, but its not exactly sterling, either

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
/me refers back to the "Teacher's Union" thread...and many of you think teachers get paid TOO much?
How many of you have to deal with thugs like this in your daily job?

Teachers don't get paid enough. If we raised teacher salaries we'd also attract better-educated teachers.

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Zebo
With all this technology its ironic we are seemingly drifting to a re-primitivization of the world at the same time.

So the per-capita rate of violence in the world was less before technology? 😕

Never read about assaults of teachers in way back when. Today it happens all the time daily it seems. Road rage same deal, mass murders same deal. Abroad I'd point to not just murders but savage dismemberment of US soldiers, Iraqi soldiers and even citizens in the new Iraq. I could be wrong just feel world is getting more savage and violent not less.

Then you know very little about history.

Indeed, just look at some of the atrocities the Japanese committed during WWII, and look even further back to ancient Near Eastern warfare - brutal stories of gutting pregnant women, dashing babies against rocks, etc...

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner

Originally posted by: BoomerD
/me refers back to the "Teacher's Union" thread...and many of you think teachers get paid TOO much?
How many of you have to deal with thugs like this in your daily job?

Teachers don't get paid enough. If we raised teacher salaries we'd also attract better-educated teachers.

you'd also attract people that dont' want to teach and just want a well paying job that its virtually impossible to get fired from

 

[preslove]

All you apple haters should take this as a lesson... 😛

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner

Originally posted by: BoomerD
/me refers back to the "Teacher's Union" thread...and many of you think teachers get paid TOO much?
How many of you have to deal with thugs like this in your daily job?

Teachers don't get paid enough. If we raised teacher salaries we'd also attract better-educated teachers.

A better educated teacher doesn't necessarily make a better teacher. Many of my friends had very highly educated professors in college who seemed to be more concerned with doing their own research than teaching. They taught only because it gave them access to the facilities.

Those students would have been better served by a teacher whose main goal was to impart his knowledge on the students rather than conduct his own research.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Those two kids should not only be expelled, they should be tried as adults and spend (lots of) jail time.

Absolutely. Someone who would do that to another human being over something so trivial is exactly the kind of person who belongs in jail.

nevertheless, they are children - not adults - and therefore should not be tried as adults. you don't just bend the rules because you don't like what someone has done. if you aren't willing to extend to those kids the right to vote, have sex, and drink then trying then as an adult is pretty hypocritical. not to mention uncivilized, barbaric.

 

[clamum]

Doesn't surprise me... my friend is doing Teach for America in Philly and I get to hear her stories. Nothing this bad but it's not like it couldn't happen... sorta scary.

 

[imported_Imp]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Those two kids should not only be expelled, they should be tried as adults and spend (lots of) jail time.

Absolutely. Someone who would do that to another human being over something so trivial is exactly the kind of person who belongs in jail.

nevertheless, they are children - not adults - and therefore should not be tried as adults. you don't just bend the rules because you don't like what someone has done. if you aren't willing to extend to those kids the right to vote, have sex, and drink then trying then as an adult is pretty hypocritical. not to mention uncivilized, barbaric.

Hate it when people put up the "but they're just kids" defense. The number 18 or 19 shouldn't be some magical age where you are suddenly no longer 'innocent'. Won't go into that more, but these punks should be put in prison. Oh no, they got my I-pod mommy or daddy bought or for their case, probably stole off the street. Enjoy podding in prison.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Imp

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Those two kids should not only be expelled, they should be tried as adults and spend (lots of) jail time.

Absolutely. Someone who would do that to another human being over something so trivial is exactly the kind of person who belongs in jail.

nevertheless, they are children - not adults - and therefore should not be tried as adults. you don't just bend the rules because you don't like what someone has done. if you aren't willing to extend to those kids the right to vote, have sex, and drink then trying then as an adult is pretty hypocritical. not to mention uncivilized, barbaric.

Hate it when people put up the "but they're just kids" defense. The number 18 or 19 shouldn't be some magical age where you are suddenly no longer 'innocent'. Won't go into that more, but these punks should be put in prison. Oh no, they got my I-pod mommy or daddy bought or for their case, probably stole off the street. Enjoy podding in prison.

the issue is not innocence or guilt. (there doesn't seem to be any doubt about their guilt here). the issue is whether they should be tried as children or adults. Seeing as they are not adults in any legal sense, there is really no justification for them to be tried as adults.

There are all sorts of good reasons why children and adults should be tried separately, under different rules, by the way. All civilized, first world countries make this distinction.

 

[potato28]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Imp

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Those two kids should not only be expelled, they should be tried as adults and spend (lots of) jail time.

Absolutely. Someone who would do that to another human being over something so trivial is exactly the kind of person who belongs in jail.

nevertheless, they are children - not adults - and therefore should not be tried as adults. you don't just bend the rules because you don't like what someone has done. if you aren't willing to extend to those kids the right to vote, have sex, and drink then trying then as an adult is pretty hypocritical. not to mention uncivilized, barbaric.

Hate it when people put up the "but they're just kids" defense. The number 18 or 19 shouldn't be some magical age where you are suddenly no longer 'innocent'. Won't go into that more, but these punks should be put in prison. Oh no, they got my I-pod mommy or daddy bought or for their case, probably stole off the street. Enjoy podding in prison.

the issue is not innocence or guilt. (there doesn't seem to be any doubt about their guilt here). the issue is whether they should be tried as children or adults. Seeing as they are not adults in any legal sense, there is really no justification for them to be tried as adults.

There are all sorts of good reasons why children and adults should be tried separately, under different rules, by the way. All civilized, first world countries make this distinction.

Yes, but they attacked one of their teachers over a $200 iPod which they would have gotten back after a yell or two from a Vice Principal. They didn't have to spazz on the teacher, and physically assualt him. They got expelled, but the 17 year old should be tryed as an adult.

 

[flxnimprtmscl]

Ah, nothing like the City of Brotherly Love. How a cesspool like Philly got glossed with that one I'll never figure out...

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Imp

Hate it when people put up the "but they're just kids" defense. The number 18 or 19 shouldn't be some magical age where you are suddenly no longer 'innocent'. Won't go into that more, but these punks should be put in prison. Oh no, they got my I-pod mommy or daddy bought or for their case, probably stole off the street. Enjoy podding in prison.

If you're going to bend the current rules and consider them an adult before they're 18 in order to try them as an adult in court, are you also going to bend the rules and allow them to drive cars, buy cigarettes, and drink earlier, too?

How come a 17.5 year old can be tried as an adult in order to convict him of an adult crime before he's an adult, but if you have sex with a mature 17.5 year old girl, you still get thrown in jail as if you had sex with a 12 year old? Apparently one can be eligible to be guilty of adult crimes before they're legally an adult, but they're not eligible for additional rights or leniency until they're an adult.

How come people can have their rights taken away from them before they're of legal adult age, but they cannot gain their rights before they're of legal adult age? Someone needs to remove this double standard and make it logically consistent.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Those two kids should not only be expelled, they should be tried as adults and spend (lots of) jail time.

Absolutely. Someone who would do that to another human being over something so trivial is exactly the kind of person who belongs in jail.

nevertheless, they are children - not adults - and therefore should not be tried as adults. you don't just bend the rules because you don't like what someone has done. if you aren't willing to extend to those kids the right to vote, have sex, and drink then trying then as an adult is pretty hypocritical. not to mention uncivilized, barbaric.

Teenagers are tried as adults all the time in the US. These guys were 15 and 17, not 8 or 10.

Whether we consider them mature enough to vote and drink responsibly has no bearing on whether they should or should not have known that what they were doing is wrong. Calling us uncivilized and barbaric for punishing people for their crimes is absurd. Call us barbaric for executing juvenile offenders if you want, but punishing these kids appropriately for what they did is not barbaric.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner

Originally posted by: BoomerD
/me refers back to the "Teacher's Union" thread...and many of you think teachers get paid TOO much?
How many of you have to deal with thugs like this in your daily job?

Teachers don't get paid enough. If we raised teacher salaries we'd also attract better-educated teachers.

A better educated teacher doesn't necessarily make a better teacher. Many of my friends had very highly educated professors in college who seemed to be more concerned with doing their own research than teaching. They taught only because it gave them access to the facilities.

Those students would have been better served by a teacher whose main goal was to impart his knowledge on the students rather than conduct his own research.

That's just how it works at a research university. Professors are expected to publish articles and books and bring prestige to the university so people will want to study under them, even though they're mostly being taught by TAs.

High school is a different story. Too many teachers don't know their own material well enough. They learn the material from the same books they're teaching out of. They have a desire to teach, but they don't have a desire to learn. Many, many people on these forums would make better history teachers than any history teacher I ever had. Science and math too.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: mugs


Teenagers are tried as adults all the time in the US. These guys were 15 and 17, not 8 or 10.

Whether we consider them mature enough to vote and drink responsibly has no bearing on whether they should or should not have known that what they were doing is wrong. Calling us uncivilized and barbaric for punishing people for their crimes is absurd. Call us barbaric for executing juvenile offenders if you want, but punishing these kids appropriately for what they did is not barbaric.

It needs to be made consistent. The court of law is currently in shambles, with prosecutors taking advantage of this fact to put people away as adults before they're even adults.

In one case, they charged a 14 year old girl as an adult with child pornography. Her crime? She posted nude pictures of herself online. They charged her as an adult because they claimed it was an "adult crime", but at the same time she was the child "victim". So they were playing both sides of the fence simultaneously.

I'm not saying that these boys shouldn't be charged with any crime. They should, but they should be charged as juveniles since they're under 18. If you think they should be eligible to be charged with adult crimes before they're 18, then they should also be eligible for adult rights before they're 18. The real question is this: Is a 17 year old an adult or a child in the eyes of the law nowadays?

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl
Ah, nothing like the City of Brotherly Love. How a cesspool like Philly got glossed with that one I'll never figure out...

It's a greek name which literally means brotherly love. I'd guess they got the name from the Bible.

 

[flxnimprtmscl]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl
Ah, nothing like the City of Brotherly Love. How a cesspool like Philly got glossed with that one I'll never figure out...

It's a greek name which literally means brotherly love. I'd guess they got the name from the Bible.

Interesting. I'd never heard that. Thanks 🙂

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: mugs


Teenagers are tried as adults all the time in the US. These guys were 15 and 17, not 8 or 10.

Whether we consider them mature enough to vote and drink responsibly has no bearing on whether they should or should not have known that what they were doing is wrong. Calling us uncivilized and barbaric for punishing people for their crimes is absurd. Call us barbaric for executing juvenile offenders if you want, but punishing these kids appropriately for what they did is not barbaric.

It needs to be made consistent. The court of law is currently in shambles, with prosecutors taking advantage of this fact to put people away as adults before they're even adults.

In one case, they charged a 14 year old girl as an adult with child pornography. Her crime? She posted nude pictures of herself online. They charged her as an adult because they claimed it was an "adult crime", but at the same time she was the child "victim". So they were playing both sides of the fence simultaneously.

I'm not saying that these boys shouldn't be charged with any crime. They should, but they should be charged as juveniles since they're under 18. If you think they should be eligible to be charged with adult crimes before they're 18, then they should also be eligible for adult rights before they're 18. The real question is this: Is a 17 year old an adult or a child in the eyes of the law nowadays?

If they're adult enough to assault a teacher and break his neck, they're adult enough to stand trial as adults, and have the rights afforded to an adult...the right to trial by jury, the right to an attorney, the right to so to FMITA prison for their crimes.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl
Ah, nothing like the City of Brotherly Love. How a cesspool like Philly got glossed with that one I'll never figure out...

Most parts of Philly is very nice. North Philly is terrible, but for the most part Philly for a big city ain't to bad.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner

Originally posted by: BoomerD
/me refers back to the "Teacher's Union" thread...and many of you think teachers get paid TOO much?
How many of you have to deal with thugs like this in your daily job?

Teachers don't get paid enough. If we raised teacher salaries we'd also attract better-educated teachers.

A better educated teacher doesn't necessarily make a better teacher. Many of my friends had very highly educated professors in college who seemed to be more concerned with doing their own research than teaching. They taught only because it gave them access to the facilities.

Those students would have been better served by a teacher whose main goal was to impart his knowledge on the students rather than conduct his own research.

That's just how it works at a research university. Professors are expected to publish articles and books and bring prestige to the university so people will want to study under them, even though they're mostly being taught by TAs.

High school is a different story. Too many teachers don't know their own material well enough. They learn the material from the same books they're teaching out of. They have a desire to teach, but they don't have a desire to learn. Many, many people on these forums would make better history teachers than any history teacher I ever had. Science and math too.

As with most things I place much more blame on administration, society, and government than on the workers (ie teachers). People are usually capable of great things if the higher ups would just get out of their way and let them do it.

I know plenty of people who became teachers with dreams and energy and ability but after just a few years had to quit because they're not allowed to teach. No funding, no community support, legislative requirements, diversity requirements, political correctness, covering your ass from a thousand types of liability, teaching to test requirements, constant attacks on information and open thought, etc. It's not the teachers in America that are the problem for the most part, it's the education environment that needs a total overhaul. Education is NOT business and we need to stop mixing the two. They have nothing in common with one another other than requiring money to operate.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

If they're adult enough to assault a teacher and break his neck, they're adult enough to stand trial as adults, and have the rights afforded to an adult...the right to trial by jury, the right to an attorney, the right to so to FMITA prison for their crimes.

From what it sounds like, they didn't mean to break the guy's neck. They just pushed him, and he fell.

And what's so "adult" about assaulting somebody? Do you really think the act of assault signifies that the assailant is an adult and needs to be tried as an adult? A 10 year old can assault you, too. That doesn't mean that they should be tried as an adult.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Those two kids should not only be expelled, they should be tried as adults and spend (lots of) jail time.

Absolutely. Someone who would do that to another human being over something so trivial is exactly the kind of person who belongs in jail.

nevertheless, they are children - not adults - and therefore should not be tried as adults. you don't just bend the rules because you don't like what someone has done. if you aren't willing to extend to those kids the right to vote, have sex, and drink then trying then as an adult is pretty hypocritical. not to mention uncivilized, barbaric.

Teenagers are tried as adults all the time in the US.

Yes, I know. I've read the Amnesty International reports. It is shameful. This is why people in the civilized world raise their eyebrows when the USA talks about human rights.

These guys were 15 and 17, not 8 or 10.

15 and 17 are minors, not adults.
i.e., they were children, and should be tried as such. the punishment they receive should be less severe than the punishment that would be given if they were of adult age.

Originally posted by: mugs
Whether we consider them mature enough to vote and drink responsibly has no bearing on whether they should or should not have known that what they were doing is wrong. Calling us uncivilized and barbaric for punishing people for their crimes is absurd. Call us barbaric for executing juvenile offenders if you want, but punishing these kids appropriately for what they did is not barbaric.

Trying children as adults is not appropriate. It is barbaric. It's on the same level as trying the mentally ill and mentally retarded as if they were competent adults.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl
Ah, nothing like the City of Brotherly Love. How a cesspool like Philly got glossed with that one I'll never figure out...

Most parts of Philly is very nice. North Philly is terrible, but for the most part Philly for a big city ain't to bad.

Northeast is nice, center city is nice, but I used to work in areas in and around Philly, and some of those areas are real bad. I worked in Upper Darby, Chester, Germantown/Mt Airy, etc. As far as Germantown goes, you can see it was once a beautiful neighborhood but it seems to be going downhill. It's not as bad as some other areas, but it's no picnic.