Phil Robertson and freedom to have an opinion

[zinfamous]

Clearly we need to update the First Amendment.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or allowing said speech to come with repercussions or reprisals, whether in the form of dissenting opinions or employment opportunity, which shall henceforth be known as the "whoever speaks first wins the argument as no one shall be allowed to dissent" clause, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

😀

I honestly think that is how the majority of these people interpret it.

And, point in fact, considering how they absorb "facts" through their media handlers, will probably see that you posted this on the internet, it looks reasonable enough, and will pretty much believe that it is directly taken from the document.

 

[zinfamous]

So, saying butt-sex is icky is the equivalent of segregation now? D:

Do you ever take the time to consider these thoughts before you post them?

 

[Retro Rob]

You guys are funny--you grew up looking at photos in textbooks. photos like this:

and thinking, "Wow, what an insane time. I can't believe things were this way and people once thought that way."

Yet, there you are, in that crowd, today, holding those signs. And in 50 or so years, school children will be looking on at you in such photos as some sort of historical pariah.

Look, no one is saying discrimination is right, but having your opinion about homosexuality and lobbying to BAN GAY MARRIAGE aren't the same.

My God, when are you people going to understand the difference?

 

[nehalem256]

Do you ever take the time to consider these thoughts before you post them?

You do realize that half of what Phil said. So apparently in your mind

Saying butt-sex is icky is the same as forcing black people to ride at the back of the bus.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

You'd be correct if he said "I hate gays", but I don't remember him saying that.

You're better than that Rob. If I say "Wal-Mart is a blight on our society and should be burned to the ground," I think it's pretty clear that I have a low opinion of Wal-Mart. But did I ever say "I hate Wal-Mart"? Nope. So how could anyone possibly arrive at that conclusion? Well, because reading those words in that order in context leads to no other possible conclusion. Similarly, when Mr. Robertson says this:

Start with homosexual behavior and just morph out from there. Bestiality, sleeping around with this woman and that woman and that woman and those men. Don't be deceived. Neither the adulterers, the idolaters, the male prostitutes, the homosexual offenders, the greedy, the drunkards, the slanderers, the swindlers—they won't inherit the kingdom of God. Don't deceive yourself. It's not right.

It is impossible to read that quote in context and emerge with anything but the idea that he has a very low opinion of gay people, grouping them with bestiality, adulterers, thieves and the like. Did he say "I hate gays?" Nope. Is it a leap too far to say that grouping gays with commonly detestable acts like bestiality and thievery is the mindset of someone who hates gays? I don't think so. Neither did his employer.

 

[Retro Rob]

You're better than that Rob. If I say "Wal-Mart is a blight on our society and should be burned to the ground," I think it's pretty clear that I have a low opinion of Wal-Mart. But did I ever say "I hate Wal-Mart"? Nope. So how could anyone possibly arrive at that conclusion? Well, because reading those words in that order in context leads to no other possible conclusion. Similarly, when Mr. Robertson says this:

You still seem to be putting words in his mouth. "Hate" is a huge leap from "having a low opinion". Do you have a low opinion of creationists? That means you hate creationists, right?

It is impossible to read that quote in context and emerge with anything but the idea that he has a very low opinion of gay people, grouping them with bestiality, adulterers, thieves and the like. Did he say "I hate gays?" Nope. Is it a leap too far to say that grouping gays with commonly detestable acts like bestiality and thievery is the mindset of someone who hates gays? I don't think so. Neither did his employer.

When I read that Bible verse, I think it's saying that God sees all those sins the same...sins. Your interpretation of that quote is why you arrive at the opinion you do -- I simply see it as saying that if you practice XYZ, you're not inheriting the Kingdom.

As far as how he meant it, I cannot judge...but I won't jump to an irrational and ill-informed conclusion about whether or not he really hates gays...I don't think anyone who doesn't personally know him cannot factual say he does.

I just think, and I mean this, the media is quick to apply words like "homophobic" to people who genuinely just only have a difference in opinion and don't hate anyone.

 

[michal1980]

Of course I do as a matter of it being the law, although it clearly needs a massive overhaul and improved paths to citizenship, better access to work permits, and much more immigration as a whole. But I'm sure you already knew that.

Are you going to proceed to whining about prioritized enforcement? That's my guess, and we've been over that before so no thanks.

ah you support the 'law' in so far as you personally agree with it.

got it. "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

dont come in here saying how its all about the 'law' when it really isnt.

 

[Moonbeam]

Firing someone for their opinion, just as firing someone for their religion and sexual preference, is wrong.

So you would hire say a feminist lesbian who told you to your face you were a sick bigot? You bigots always wear one shoe.

 

[fskimospy]

ah you support the 'law' in so far as you personally agree with it.

got it. "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

dont come in here saying how its all about the 'law' when it really isnt.

Nope, swing and a miss. All law enforcement agencies in existence use prioritized enforcement. If Obama is taken to court and the courts rule that he has overstepped his authority in that regard, I'll support the court's decision.

You're projecting.

 

[michal1980]

Nope, swing and a miss. All law enforcement agencies in existence use prioritized enforcement. If Obama is taken to court and the courts rule that he has overstepped his authority in that regard, I'll support the court's decision.

You're projecting.

Not projecting anything.

We're back to eskimpospy making up rules as to whatever he wants them to be at the time he wants them.

 

[Moonbeam]

You guys are funny--you grew up looking at photos in textbooks. photos like this:

and thinking, "Wow, what an insane time. I can't believe things were this way and people once thought that way."

Yet, there you are, in that crowd, today, holding those signs. And in 50 or so years, school children will be looking on at you in such photos as some sort of historical pariah.

They were shamed into being bigots as children and have lost any capacity to feel shame again. These poor bigots are in deep pain but they don't know it. They are dangerous only in that that hate leaks out in everything they believe. It is vital only that their ability to create laws and norms our of their disgusting hate be curtailed by rational people. Their shame is obvious to everybody but them. The more we despise them for that the more we become like them.

 

[corwin]

It is impossible to read that quote in context and emerge with anything but the idea that he has a very low opinion of gay people, grouping them with bestiality, adulterers, thieves and the like. Did he say "I hate gays?" Nope. Is it a leap too far to say that grouping gays with commonly detestable acts like bestiality and thievery is the mindset of someone who hates gays? I don't think so. Neither did his employer.

It is when he directly says he doesn't...

We never, ever judge someone on who’s going to heaven, hell. That’s the Almighty’s job. We just love ’em, give ’em the good news about Jesus—whether they’re homosexuals, drunks, terrorists. We let God sort ’em out later, you see what I’m saying?

http://www.gq.com/entertainment/television/201401/duck-dynasty-phil-robertson#ixzz2nxUXbpPj

 

[Texashiker]

They were shamed into being bigots as children and have lost any capacity to feel shame again. These poor bigots are in deep pain but they don't know it. They are dangerous only in that that hate leaks out in everything they believe. It is vital only that their ability to create laws and norms our of their disgusting hate be curtailed by rational people. Their shame is obvious to everybody but them. The more we despise them for that the more we become like them.

You seem to miss something with all of your hate and bigot post, everyone is a bigot in one way or another.

We just have to dig a little deeper to reach your bigot zone.

 

[bradly1101]

Meh, who fucking cares. Is anyone really that surprised? TV is such a cluster fuck now anyways, I can't believe people even waste time watching this crap.

I think people who do watch them think they need more drama in their lives. They're such drama-queens!

 

[Moonbeam]

Not projecting anything.

We're back to eskimpospy making up rules as to whatever he wants them to be at the time he wants them.

You are projecting and you are nuts. He just said the Supreme court rules and he doesn't get to make up his own.

 

[nehalem256]

Nope, swing and a miss. All law enforcement agencies in existence use prioritized enforcement. If Obama is taken to court and the courts rule that he has overstepped his authority in that regard, I'll support the court's decision.

You're projecting.

Pretty sure there is a big difference between "prioritized enforcement" and handing out "violate the law cards".

 

[fskimospy]

Not projecting anything.

We're back to eskimpospy making up rules as to whatever he wants them to be at the time he wants them.

Nope, we're at "the courts say what the law is". I know this is deeply frustrating for you because the courts don't always tell you things you want to hear, but that's life.

 

[michal1980]

You're better than that Rob. If I say "Wal-Mart is a blight on our society and should be burned to the ground," I think it's pretty clear that I have a low opinion of Wal-Mart. But did I ever say "I hate Wal-Mart"? Nope. So how could anyone possibly arrive at that conclusion? Well, because reading those words in that order in context leads to no other possible conclusion. Similarly, when Mr. Robertson says this:



It is impossible to read that quote in context and emerge with anything but the idea that he has a very low opinion of gay people, grouping them with bestiality, adulterers, thieves and the like. Did he say "I hate gays?" Nope. Is it a leap too far to say that grouping gays with commonly detestable acts like bestiality and thievery is the mindset of someone who hates gays? I don't think so. Neither did his employer.

did you even read the rest of it.

he also said the following

“We never, ever judge someone on who’s going to heaven, hell. That’s the Almighty’s job. We just love ’em, give ’em the good news about Jesus—whether they’re homosexuals, drunks, terrorists. We let God sort ’em out later, you see what I’m saying?”

Read More http://www.gq.com/entertainment/television/201401/duck-dynasty-phil-robertson#ixzz2nxWvNbkf

 

[Atomic Playboy]

It is when he directly says he doesn't...

And that statement is incongruous with his earlier remarks, or the bit where he's comparing vaginas and anuses. If I say that I don't dislike Republicans and then go off on a rant of all the things I hate about Republicans, you'd be right to question whether my earlier disclaimer really nullified everything I was ranting about. Similarly, if someone says, "now, those sinners, I love 'em, but here's why they're going to hell," well, you'll forgive me for thinking that guy is being homophobic. Saying "we just love 'em" doesn't negate all his other statements. And even in that statement, who does he group in with homosexuals? Drunks and terrorists. I can't read that as anything but homophobic.

 

[michal1980]

Nope, we're at "the courts say what the law is". I know this is deeply frustrating for you because the courts don't always tell you things you want to hear, but that's life.

nope, were back at you taking things as you want them. picking and choosing.

Do you ever stand for anything yourself? Do you ever think for youself? or are you beholden to what the courts say?

turn your brain off, and just let it flow.

 

[nehalem256]

And that statement is incongruous with his earlier remarks, or the bit where he's comparing vaginas and anuses. If I say that I don't dislike Republicans and then go off on a rant of all the things I hate about Republicans, you'd be right to question whether my earlier disclaimer really nullified everything I was ranting about. Similarly, if someone says, "now, those sinners, I love 'em, but here's why they're going to hell," well, you'll forgive me for thinking that guy is being homophobic. Saying "we just love 'em" doesn't negate all his other statements.

You mean the part where he says butt-sex is icky?

Saying butt-sex is icky now counts as homophobic too?😕

 

[michal1980]

And that statement is incongruous with his earlier remarks, or the bit where he's comparing vaginas and anuses. If I say that I don't dislike Republicans and then go off on a rant of all the things I hate about Republicans, you'd be right to question whether my earlier disclaimer really nullified everything I was ranting about. Similarly, if someone says, "now, those sinners, I love 'em, but here's why they're going to hell," well, you'll forgive me for thinking that guy is being homophobic. Saying "we just love 'em" doesn't negate all his other statements.

sheep mentality right here.

so much spinning.

so much projecting.

so much hate.

 

[Moonbeam]

You seem to miss something with all of your hate and bigot post, everyone is a bigot in one way or another.

We just have to dig a little deeper to reach your bigot zone.

Do you steal because many do? Stop rationalizing your bigotry. Face what you are with personal courage. It doesn't matter in the slightest what I am. You are the bigot in this thread. Throughout it I have cautioned against folk who want to despise you for it. Redneck or gay, it's all the same to me. I see the best within you, your belief in the good. I just hate to see your fanatical mental blindness spoil it by confusing the good with what is really evil. I have only the good within you to want to do that. I can't personally make you see.

 

[Moonbeam]

sheep mentality right here.

so much spinning.

so much projecting.

so much hate.

Bigots are bigots because they were victims as children and they manifest that truth with victim mentality. You have a really bad case.

 

[fskimospy]

nope, were back at you taking things as you want them. picking and choosing.

Do you ever stand for anything yourself? Do you ever think for youself? or are you beholden to what the courts say?

turn your brain off, and just let it flow.

Hahaha, that's awesome. This explains how you're so adept at doublethink. The courts, experts, etc are only useful insofar as they tell you what you already want to hear. They are authorities if they agree with you and they are forces keeping people from thinking for themselves if they don't.