Phil Robertson and freedom to have an opinion

[nehalem256]

1. You don't know what the word 'bigot' means. It doesn't mean 'dislike.'

It also doesn't mean call something a sin.

2. You assume the only relevant component in homosexuality is the sexual act. That is false.

It is the only relevant component in something being a sin or not.

3. You have defined 'sexual orientation' as 'willing to have sex have sexual contact with.' That is also not correct. Under your definition, masturbation is a sexual orientation. Using a dildo would be a sexual orientation. Rape would be a sexual orientation. Child molestation would be a sexual orientation. This is not a valid definition of sexual orientation. By redefining terms to suit your argument, you make your premise invalid and, by extension, your conclusions irrelevant.

Oh and sex with ducks.

Most of your examples of sexual orientation are wrong. Sexual orientation is what you are sexually attracted to. NOT what you use for sexual gratification.

So for example using a dildo while thinking about Brad Pitt doesn't mean you were sexually attracted to the dildo; it means you are attracted to Brad Pitt, and are using the dildo to fantasize about Brad.

Although there are people who presumably might be attracted to dildos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectum-sexuality

Do you understand human sexuality at all?

 

[werepossum]

They're giving the people what they want. The fans who heart Phil, but more importantly the people tuning in to see the redneck bigot they heard about in the news and the people who don't have a strong opinion, but are tuning in because they heard about it on the news.

True. I can't really fault A&E in a way, since this is programming for which they have already paid. OTOH I do see the hypocrisy. "We cannot tolerate what this man believes, but we hope you will tune in as he says it again for the next three hours."

It only makes one bigoted against gays. Gays are here and have been here throughout millions of years of humanity. One can either accept them or not. Does it really matter (unless one wants to commit the sin of pride by feeling he is superior to them)?

Thinking that their sex is unnatural doesn't really matter either, does it? They (we) think it's natural; isn't that who it should matter to?

Besides to me it's about love, not who f@cks who.

I think everyone must be free to have his own beliefs and to express those in a reasonable manner, which Phil did. Every religion has its rules, and none of us can really know what is gold and what dross. My only objection is when people start trying to enforce their more contentious views on others. "Thou shalt not murder" seems a reasonable tenant to enforce given that murder robs someone else of his life. Preventing gays from marrying is a bit shakier given that gays marrying robs no one of anything. If there is no strong secular reason for a religious tenant, it should not be law.

People who believe gays are doomed to hell need to chill out. If they are right, they'll have all eternity to gloat about it. Assuming they themselves aren't damned for bacon or a cotton-wool blend shirt, anyway.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I don't fully agree. People love their TV shows, especially when they get to see other people living...for some reason. A&E knows what's up, and cable isn't a la carte.

The top shows on A&E are Duck Dynasty and Storage Wars (Original, Texas, & New York). The type of person that likes one tends to watch the other. If people decide to boycott A&E over suspending Phil it will hurt them.

 

[ch33zw1z]

The top shows on A&E are Duck Dynasty and Storage Wars (Original, Texas, & New York). The type of person that likes one tends to watch the other. If people decide to boycott A&E over suspending Phil it will hurt them.

It may hurt them, but their network won't fold over it. Another show can take it's place, and before you know it people will glued back to the tube. boycotting a single channel on cable TV is like going to McDonald's, buying everything on the menu, then throwing the Big Mac away because you're boycotting it.

edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A+E_Networks

Oh, what's this, A&E is owned by the Walt Disney Company? yea, they'll be fine.

 

[Exophase]

True. I can't really fault A&E in a way, since this is programming for which they have already paid. OTOH I do see the hypocrisy. "We cannot tolerate what this man believes, but we hope you will tune in as he says it again for the next three hours."

They didn't have a problem with what he said on the show before or they wouldn't have aired it, and I don't see why that would change now. I don't watch the show so I have no idea what that content is, maybe he said stuff like this and even more offensive all the time. But I guess that didn't matter since it wasn't to the "wrong" audience like I guess the GQ article must have been. Maybe there will be some people who will start watching the show purely with the intention of being offended but probably not enough people to matter.

Him getting suspended is 100% retributive. And entirely about maintaining a certain image, not defending their own beliefs. It's superficial and in this case could very easily backfire on them, but they're still within their rights to do it.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

It may hurt them, but their network won't fold over it. Another show can take it's place, and before you know it people will glued back to the tube. boycotting a single channel on cable TV is like going to McDonald's, buying everything on the menu, then throwing the Big Mac away because you're boycotting it.

edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A+E_Networks

Oh, what's this, A&E is owned by the Walt Disney Company? yea, they'll be fine.

You do realize that Duck Dynasty accounts for over 2/3rds of their ratings? They won't fold but they will have a hard time replacing viewers that chose not to watch their network.

 

[ch33zw1z]

You do realize that Duck Dynasty accounts for over 2/3rds of their ratings? They won't fold but they will have a hard time replacing viewers that chose not to watch their network.

You do realize that A&E was a channel before this show and will continue after this show. People have short memories and love their TV. This too shall pass.

 

[Daverino]

It also doesn't mean call something a sin.

Which isn't something anyone said, so completely irrelevant.

It is the only relevant component in something being a sin or not.

Again, irrelevant. Do you even think when you type things like this?

Most of your examples of sexual orientation are wrong. Sexual orientation is what you are sexually attracted to. NOT what you use for sexual gratification.

My examples are by your definition only. Bestiality is the act of having sex with an animal.
It has no meaningful parallels with homosexuality or heterosexuality, despite you saying that it does. Your presumption (and strange obsession) that the only thing relevant in homosexuality is the physical act of sex is abhorrent and offensive to me.

As is your presumption that revulsion to homosexuality is universally Christian belief.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

You do realize that A&E was a channel before this show and will continue after this show. People have short memories and love their TV. This too shall pass.

Oh yeah I realize that A&E has been a network for years however, many of the people that watch Duck Dynasty didn't watch shows on the network and the show has been a big draw/money maker ($400 million/year) for them. I'm sure they'll survive but their owner/stock holders won't be happy with the reduced dividends.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Oh yeah I realize that A&E has been a network for years however, many of the people that watch Duck Dynasty didn't watch shows on the network and the show has been a big draw/money maker ($400 million/year) for them. I'm sure they'll survive but their owner/stock holders won't be happy with the reduced dividends.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_Disney#Disney_Media_Networks

Better boycott 'em all then, or else it wont matter. Holy shit that's a big list. You may as well just cancel cable, a real boycott warrants it.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Lets see. Given that GLAAD threw a big fit to A&E about Phil Robertson not "accepting"(perhaps better put as not celebrating), I would say that it clearly does matter.

Why should it be "better put as not celebrating". Did GLAAD ask or demand that Phil (or anyone else) "celebrate" homosexuality? Why no, no they didn't. So your statement is what? Simply you telling a lie? Perhaps you have a reading comprehension problem? Or, obvious troll being obvious?

Here is the complete article that they released on their web page:

Duck Dynasty's Phil Robertson uses vile stereotypes to tell GQ his thoughts on LGBT people

By Ross Murray, Director of News | December 18, 2013

http://www.glaad.org/blog/duck-dyna...-stereotypes-tell-gq-his-thoughts-lgbt-people


The most pertinent quote being:

"Phil and his family claim to be Christian, but Phil's lies about an entire community fly in the face of what true Christians believe," said GLAAD spokesperson Wilson Cruz. "He clearly knows nothing about gay people or the majority of Louisianans – and Americans - who support legal recognition for loving and committed gay and lesbian couples. Phil's decision to push vile and extreme stereotypes is a stain on A&E and his sponsors who now need to reexamine their ties to someone with such public disdain for LGBT people and families."


Where is the demand for "celebrating" homosexuality?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_Disney#Disney_Media_Networks

Better boycott 'em all then, or else it wont matter. Holy shit that's a big list. You may as well just cancel cable, a real boycott warrants it.

Why? If A&E pays the price or comes up with another big draw so be it. I just don't see them finding one quick enough to prevent substantial financial losses.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Why? If A&E pays the price or comes up with another big draw so be it. I just don't see them finding one quick enough to prevent substantial financial losses.

400 million a year a drop in the bucket for Disney. Did you even click the link? Go ahead, keep your cable, boycotting one show or even the channel won't accomplish anything. You want A&E to change their minds? the boycotters need to drop cable altogether.

this is how it works. it sucks, but that's why cable TV has been organized the way it is...so that when losses occur, the shit on TV just keeps on flowing.

 

[bradly1101]

True. I can't really fault A&E in a way, since this is programming for which they have already paid. OTOH I do see the hypocrisy. "We cannot tolerate what this man believes, but we hope you will tune in as he says it again for the next three hours."


I think everyone must be free to have his own beliefs and to express those in a reasonable manner, which Phil did. Every religion has its rules, and none of us can really know what is gold and what dross. My only objection is when people start trying to enforce their more contentious views on others. "Thou shalt not murder" seems a reasonable tenant to enforce given that murder robs someone else of his life. Preventing gays from marrying is a bit shakier given that gays marrying robs no one of anything. If there is no strong secular reason for a religious tenant, it should not be law.

People who believe gays are doomed to hell need to chill out. If they are right, they'll have all eternity to gloat about it. Assuming they themselves aren't damned for bacon or a cotton-wool blend shirt, anyway.

So much!

 

[HTFOff]

400 million a year a drop in the bucket for Disney.

Yeah, no.

 

[michal1980]

Why should it be "better put as not celebrating". Did GLAAD ask or demand that Phil (or anyone else) "celebrate" homosexuality? Why no, no they didn't. So your statement is what? Simply you telling a lie? Perhaps you have a reading comprehension problem? Or, obvious troll being obvious?

Here is the complete article that they released on their web page:

Duck Dynasty's Phil Robertson uses vile stereotypes to tell GQ his thoughts on LGBT people

By Ross Murray, Director of News | December 18, 2013

http://www.glaad.org/blog/duck-dyna...-stereotypes-tell-gq-his-thoughts-lgbt-people


The most pertinent quote being:

"Phil and his family claim to be Christian, but Phil's lies about an entire community fly in the face of what true Christians believe," said GLAAD spokesperson Wilson Cruz. "He clearly knows nothing about gay people or the majority of Louisianans – and Americans - who support legal recognition for loving and committed gay and lesbian couples. Phil's decision to push vile and extreme stereotypes is a stain on A&E and his sponsors who now need to reexamine their ties to someone with such public disdain for LGBT people and families."


Where is the demand for "celebrating" homosexuality?

Who the fuck is glaad to decide who is Christian, and what Christian practices are?

Phil is much more in line with what the Pope says, then what glaad cry babies say.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Yeah, no.

yea, no? offer something. you think they're relying on Duck Dynasty to make or break them? lol..you guys are funny.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...10_1_jay-rasulo-walt-disney-world-theme-parks

yea, here's just one link from before this show was even around. Disney is fine with or without Duck Dynasty.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Who the fuck is glaad to decide who is Christian, and what Christian practices are?

Phil is much more in line with what the Pope says, then what glaad cry babies say.

So Catholics aren't Christians now?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Who the fuck is glaad to decide who is Christian, and what Christian practices are?

Phil is much more in line with what the Pope says, then what glaad cry babies say.

A) so 'real' Christians lie about and denigrate others?
B) Actually, I suspect the Pope, based on his own spoken words, would be appalled by what Phil said.

 

[Agent11]

Why does A&E hate America?

In the US we are supposed to enjoy diversity of thought and freedom of speech, we are supposed to be a heterogeneous society.

In contrast Soviet Russia censored all forms of expression and told you what you were to think, a homogeneous society.




Obviously A&E is ran by goose stepping commie bastards!

A) so 'real' Christians lie about and denigrate others?
B) Actually, I suspect the Pope, based on his own spoken words, would be appalled by what Phil said.

Have you read Phil Robertson's comments?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Robertson#GQ_comments

On December 18, 2013, A&E announced the indefinite suspension of Robertson following comments he made during an interview with GQ magazine.[15] Magary asked Robertson: "What, in your mind, is sinful?"[16] Answering; Robertson said: "Start with homosexual behavior and just morph out from there. Bestiality, sleeping around with this woman and that woman and that woman and those men." Robertson continued by rhetorically questioning the appeal of same-sex relationships, particularly amongst men; saying: "It seems like, to me, a vagina—as a man—would be more desirable than a man’s anus. That’s just me. I’m just thinking: There’s more there! She’s got more to offer. I mean, come on, dudes! You know what I’m saying? But hey, sin: It’s not logical, my man. It’s just not logical." Robertson went on to say “We never, ever judge someone on who’s going to heaven, hell. That’s the Almighty’s job. We just love ’em, give ’em the good news about Jesus—whether they’re homosexuals, drunks, terrorists. We let God sort ’em out later, you see what I’m saying?”[15][17][18][19] In response to A&E's suspension, Robertson released a statement, saying in part: "I would never treat anyone with disrespect just because they are different from me."[20]

What exactly is so offensive? The fact he dare have an opinion other than the one supported by his employer?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Don't forget the Duck Dynasty marathon on A&E starts at 5pm est until 4am est today.

Also the word on the street is an A&E rep was with Phil when he was interviewed by GQ. Starting to sound more and more like a publicity stunt.

 

[ElMonoDelMar]

Obviously A&E is ran by goose stepping commie bastards

Do you know what a communist is?

 

[88keys]

Don't forget the Duck Dynasty marathon on A&E starts at 5pm est until 4am est today.

Also the word on the street is an A&E rep was with Phil when he was interviewed by GQ. Starting to sound more and more like a publicity stunt.

I'm starting to think the same thing. I recently found out that A&E have been editing certain 'religious' parts out of their show for a while, that and given his rant about gays in 2010 tells me that A&E was entirely aware of how Phil Robertson felt about gays and the brash way that he speaks of them.

That and the interviewer didn't even ask Robertson about gays specifically, Robertson brought it up himself.

 

[Agent11]

Do you know what a communist is?

My factual statement to charged diatribe quotient was too high, being as I was using Soviet Russia in a comparison the solution was clear.

 

[fskimospy]

What exactly is so offensive? The fact he dare have an opinion other than the one supported by his employer?

As has previously been explained, when you say things in public that will likely damage the ability of your employer to sell advertising in an advertising dominated business, you can expect a considerable likelihood of being disciplined in some way.

I have no idea why this would be the least bit surprising.

I like a world best where Phil Robertson is free to be a reprehensible human being and the rest of us are free to tell him that he's a reprehensible human being. While I hate the never ending quest to have people apologize for insensitive statements (and don't fool yourselves, conservatives, you are every bit as bad), A&E has the right to associate with whomever they choose.

Don't want to get fired by a media company? Don't make homophobic rants in national publications.