Peter Schiff has become officially insane

[First]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: First
[

Like I said, in some very remote locations in some parts of the 3rd world, you may not be able to use the dollar. The fact that you might be able to use Krugerrand in some places means nothing, since the same facts apply to Krugerrand; you can't use it everywhere, including the U.S., where you'd be turned away and laughed at if you paid businesses with it. Hell, the stuff was banned in half the civilized world until the 90's because South Africa makes it. Get over it, you're wrong and badly wrong at that.

No the same facts don't apply. Gold remains the universal currency, it doesn't rely on banks, corporations or governments. I can exchange it for services in cities or 100 miles out in the jungle. You can't do that with any other form of currency.

Again, if you tried to pass off a Krugerrand to most businesses in the U.S. or most Western countries, you'd be laughed out the door. This is in contrast dollars, which are accepted everywhere in the Western industrialized world and virtually all of the 3rd world. And sorry, there are no markets in jungles. You're clinging to a reality that doesn't exist. The fact that gold doesn't need a gov't means nothing unless you bargain shop for goods in lower Tanzania where, sadly, they probably don't know any better.

 

[LunarRay]

Oh... heck.. Fix the National debt into LT only debt, go to super hyper inflation then move to a gold/sliver standard. Pay off the National debt with a few Gold Standard Dollars, Dump WTO and NAFTA, Isolate and there we go.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: First

Again, if you tried to pass off a Krugerrand to most businesses in the U.S. or most Western countries, you'd be laughed out the door. This is in contrast dollars, which are accepted everywhere in the Western industrialized world and virtually all of the 3rd world. And sorry, there are no markets in jungles. You're clinging to a reality that doesn't exist. The fact that gold doesn't need a gov't means nothing unless you bargain shop for goods in lower Tanzania where, sadly, they probably don't know any better.

Why would I need to pass it off at the business ? I convert it at a bank for local currency. I can also choose not to convert it and carry it with me and still be able to use it away from a bank. You can't seem to grasp that the value of gold is not only its monetary value but also that it is universally accepted regardless of country.

The thing with US currency is that counterfeit is rampant outside the USA. You literally have to inspect every bill someone gives you. The other problem is exchange rates and fees . It would be great if you could walk into a foreign bank and hand them $20 and they give you the local equivalent but that isn't how it works. Instead you end up paying 20% more worth of currency because of fees . Gold does not have that problem. I have taken gold to Kenya, Peru and India and exchanged what I needed for local currency with no fees.
You need to try traveling and converting money and you will see how much of a pain it is.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Why would I need to pass it off at the business ? I convert it at a bank for local currency.

WTH? You just said dollars couldn't be used on some of the streets of India and yet now you're saying it doesn't matter that Krugerrand can't be used on some of the streets of the U.S. because you can go to a bank? Good lord you're contradicting yourself.

I can also choose not to convert it and carry it with me and still be able to use it away from a bank.

You can do the same thing with U.S. dollars.

You can't seem to grasp that the value of gold is not only its monetary value but also that it is universally accepted regardless of country.

Except this is false. You don't quite seem to understand the same exact thing applies to dollars; manufactured scarcity. Gold is manufactured scarcity because you can control the supply of gold (as we do in Fort Knox) by either flooding or not flooding the market with it. Of course, fact of the matter is that neither currency is accepted absolutely everywhere so your ultimate point about gold is moot to begin with.

The thing with US currency is that counterfeit is rampant outside the USA. You literally have to inspect every bill someone gives you.

A gross exaggeration. Putting dollars in banks and using credit have vastly reduced the problem of counterfeit dollars. Btw, you can counterfeit gold and do it quite easily.

The other problem is exchange rates and fees . It would be great if you could walk into a foreign bank and hand them $20 and they give you the local equivalent but that isn't how it works. Instead you end up paying 20% more worth of currency because of fees . Gold does not have that problem. I have taken gold to Kenya, Peru and India and exchanged what I needed for local currency with no fees.

Pure bunk. I don't know where you're getting your information but foreign banks do not charge random 20% fees for currency exchange by and large. There are few, if any, fees with U.S. dollar exchanges, you're probably misinformed about currency exchange rates. Also, fact of the matter is that gold is the most prohibitively expensive currency to use because the cost of actually moving any significant quantities of it are extraordinarily high when compared to dollars.

You need to try traveling and converting money and you will see how much of a pain it is.

I have, quite a bit more than you in all likelihood, and have been able to exchange dollars with no problem or fees in Taiwan, Mexico, Amsterdam, and Canada. It's also not hard to actually look up.

 

[totalnoob]

Originally posted by: nergee

I saw a speech Schiff did in 11/06 where he talked about the RE bubble and
he also made reference in that speech to his saying something about inflated RE prices a year before.......I think this 06 speech was in front of some LV mortage bankers....

Yep, 2006. All 8 parts are on youtube.. Here's one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...hdhCFQ&feature=related

P.S. Silver > Gold

The ratio of silver to gold in the earth's crust is 15:1 and in terms of above ground inventories it's even LESS..yet the paper price of silver is currently 60:1

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: nergee

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Link

The worst is not over, according to Euro Pacific Capital's Schiff, who predicts the Dow will fall another 90% from current levels when measured against gold.

A longtime dollar bear and gold bull, he foresees gold hitting $5000 per ounce "in the next couple of years," and predicts the Dow and gold will trade on a one-to-one ratio vs. the current level of around 9.7-to-1.

...[gold will] start moving up $100 per day [!!!]

This is the guy who foresaw a lot of what has happened but, unfortunately for his clients, didn't make them any money at it.

Of course if it does hit a few thousand, even, it will be funny to bump this thread and laugh at myself, but it's certainly an extreme view. Has he been on Glenn Beck's show yet? They seem a perfect match.

He didn't "foresee" shit. He jumped on the bandwagon in 06/07. I "foresaw" this at least 2 years before he even began parroting his bullshit when I started discussing how stupid Orlando RE prices were.

Schiff is a fool.

I saw a speech Schiff did in 11/06 where he talked about the RE bubble and
he also made reference in that speech to his saying something about inflated RE prices a year before.......I think this 06 speech was in front of some LV mortage bankers....

Revisionism will not fool historians like LK and his buds would like.

Him and his buds are the fools.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: nergee

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Link

The worst is not over, according to Euro Pacific Capital's Schiff, who predicts the Dow will fall another 90% from current levels when measured against gold.

A longtime dollar bear and gold bull, he foresees gold hitting $5000 per ounce "in the next couple of years," and predicts the Dow and gold will trade on a one-to-one ratio vs. the current level of around 9.7-to-1.

...[gold will] start moving up $100 per day [!!!]

This is the guy who foresaw a lot of what has happened but, unfortunately for his clients, didn't make them any money at it.

Of course if it does hit a few thousand, even, it will be funny to bump this thread and laugh at myself, but it's certainly an extreme view. Has he been on Glenn Beck's show yet? They seem a perfect match.

He didn't "foresee" shit. He jumped on the bandwagon in 06/07. I "foresaw" this at least 2 years before he even began parroting his bullshit when I started discussing how stupid Orlando RE prices were.

Schiff is a fool.

I saw a speech Schiff did in 11/06 where he talked about the RE bubble and
he also made reference in that speech to his saying something about inflated RE prices a year before.......I think this 06 speech was in front of some LV mortage bankers....

Revisionism will not fool historians like LK and his buds would like.

Him and his buds are the fools.

Go sue somebody online Dave.

"Look forward to the subpoena from my attorney".

LOL.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: nergee

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Link

The worst is not over, according to Euro Pacific Capital's Schiff, who predicts the Dow will fall another 90% from current levels when measured against gold.

A longtime dollar bear and gold bull, he foresees gold hitting $5000 per ounce "in the next couple of years," and predicts the Dow and gold will trade on a one-to-one ratio vs. the current level of around 9.7-to-1.

...[gold will] start moving up $100 per day [!!!]

This is the guy who foresaw a lot of what has happened but, unfortunately for his clients, didn't make them any money at it.

Of course if it does hit a few thousand, even, it will be funny to bump this thread and laugh at myself, but it's certainly an extreme view. Has he been on Glenn Beck's show yet? They seem a perfect match.

He didn't "foresee" shit. He jumped on the bandwagon in 06/07. I "foresaw" this at least 2 years before he even began parroting his bullshit when I started discussing how stupid Orlando RE prices were.

Schiff is a fool.

I saw a speech Schiff did in 11/06 where he talked about the RE bubble and
he also made reference in that speech to his saying something about inflated RE prices a year before.......I think this 06 speech was in front of some LV mortage bankers....

I'd love to see that. Again, still 3 years behind the curve. Schiff is always behind the curve. He reminds me of somebody driving a car from the rearview mirror.

In 2003 when I lived in Miami I was warning people about the problem. I saw it when I was in grad school. All of those toolbags were buying new condos in formerly shithole places for 400k, now they're worth 200k.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
You can pick any two places on a chart for stocks and say the same thing. Hell, you could pick 1982 and 2000 compared to stocks and gold and come up with a very convincing argument.

Sure, gold may do well in the short-term, but it is blown away by stocks in the long term.

In the short term there are many more investments that are better than gold.

But your reply has nothing to do with the point of my post.

The point of my post wasn't to compare gold and the dollar as investments, even if that was the main purpose of the linked chart.

The chart in my post was only used to establish an example that gold can be invested in and you can make profits in dollars by doing so.

The point of my post was your citing all kinds of bizarre factors about the two.

When do the dollar's aircraft carriers play any practical role in its being a better investment than gold - eve it is a better investment for other reasons - in the past or coming period?

I almost made a similar post to the guy who touted his ability to run around the world spending gold in some scenario where the dollar has failed - what nuttiness is that?

How much practical benefit is that?

In short, the rational and reasonable factors for deciding whether to invest in gold IMO really have nothing to do with the issues you cited about aircraft carriers.

Edit: well, the guy I mentioned made his case for gold - it's still extremely rare to have any practical use, but apparently he found some in his travels (he bought/rented a girl?)

Doesn't change my point much, but if he says he ran across it, which very few people would IMO, so be it.

I don't really want to digress into the gold as currency topic, but I'd think there are more practical alternate currencies, and I'd think gold is a very troublesome 'currency', between either having to deal with large fixed amounts (can you change a Kruggerand for this candy bar and coke) or figuring out how to find people with the scales and authenticity testing to spend other amounts, something every villager carries around. Who knows.

So you went to some obscure corner of the world and couldn't use dollars. Great for you. Nobody cares about it.

When the shit hits the fan, I'll take my guns, bought with dollars, then steal your gold. That's effectively what would happen on the world scale.

 

[totalnoob]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
When the shit hits the fan, I'll take my guns, bought with dollars, then steal your gold. That's effectively what would happen on the world scale.

Gold + Guns = Win

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: totalnoob

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
When the shit hits the fan, I'll take my guns, bought with dollars, then steal your gold. That's effectively what would happen on the world scale.

Gold + Guns = Win

I think a lot of people get really hung up on doomsday scenarios of gold vs dollars. When, in fact, it would take a complete breakdown of the *world* to get into those scenarios. At that level gold would only matter for a medium of transaction on the local level, one stop above bartering. At that level gold wouldn't be valued as highly (you'd lose a lot of money once the collapse happens, especially since much of the runup is due to PPP of local currencies and the demand effects of leveraged ETFs), and most people would be going back to two-cows = 1 horse.

Not to mention that very quickly you'd get into a situation of local currencies and/or governments who'd just confiscate your gold, or kill you for it.

Thus, gold really doesn't matter.

As an "inflation hedge" gold is shit, always has been. The correlation coefficient between gold and inflation is far lower than stocks and inflation, or houses and inflation. It's because gold is more of a safe-haven for crisis rather than inflation. Many people swallow the inflation argument because everybody parrots it. It's a self-propagating rumor.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
You can pick any two places on a chart for stocks and say the same thing. Hell, you could pick 1982 and 2000 compared to stocks and gold and come up with a very convincing argument.

Sure, gold may do well in the short-term, but it is blown away by stocks in the long term.

In the short term there are many more investments that are better than gold.

But your reply has nothing to do with the point of my post.

The point of my post wasn't to compare gold and the dollar as investments, even if that was the main purpose of the linked chart.

The chart in my post was only used to establish an example that gold can be invested in and you can make profits in dollars by doing so.

The point of my post was your citing all kinds of bizarre factors about the two.

When do the dollar's aircraft carriers play any practical role in its being a better investment than gold - eve it is a better investment for other reasons - in the past or coming period?

I almost made a similar post to the guy who touted his ability to run around the world spending gold in some scenario where the dollar has failed - what nuttiness is that?

How much practical benefit is that?

In short, the rational and reasonable factors for deciding whether to invest in gold IMO really have nothing to do with the issues you cited about aircraft carriers.

Edit: well, the guy I mentioned made his case for gold - it's still extremely rare to have any practical use, but apparently he found some in his travels (he bought/rented a girl?)

Doesn't change my point much, but if he says he ran across it, which very few people would IMO, so be it.

I don't really want to digress into the gold as currency topic, but I'd think there are more practical alternate currencies, and I'd think gold is a very troublesome 'currency', between either having to deal with large fixed amounts (can you change a Kruggerand for this candy bar and coke) or figuring out how to find people with the scales and authenticity testing to spend other amounts, something every villager carries around. Who knows.

So you went to some obscure corner of the world and couldn't use dollars. Great for you. Nobody cares about it.

When the shit hits the fan, I'll take my guns, bought with dollars, then steal your gold. That's effectively what would happen on the world scale.

LK: it was Modelworks, not me, who told the story about using gold. I said that the need for gold as a currency is extremely rare, it's irrelevant to it as an investment choice.

You are responding to him similarly, but you quoted my post to respond to his comments. It looks like you got mixed up and had the wrong post quoted.

However, you did not respond to the point in my posts, for a second time.

Just as I pointed out the gold 'doomsday schenario' is irrelevant to him, I also said the 'dollar has aircraft carriers' doomsday scenario *you* posted is irrelevant.

I made the point that you are underselling gold as an investment with the implications that there's some real risk it'll be worthless while the dollar is the safer investment backed by the military might of the US. So, I was pointing out that you are being selective in criticizing the 'doomsday' scenarios - correctly criticizing them for gold, but hawking them for the dollar.

As valid as your general arguments against gold might be for *other* reasons, the fact of the matter is that you would have fine - if not great - for years now with gold.

So, a bit of balance would be called for, not excessively one-sided criticisms of gold as an investment.

I haven't felt comfortable with gold as an investment and have never invested in it - but I acknowledge in hindsight I'd have benefitted if I had.