Queasy
Moderator<br>Console Gaming
- Aug 24, 2001
- 31,796
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- 0
Crooks & Liars blog tries to cover for Stark by....lying about what he actually said on the floor of the House.
The only lies are here. Crooks & Liars doesn't lie anywhere about what he said. They put the full video clip - a longer one that any other I saw in this thread - up. They excerpted a different part of it - which can be criticized by those who think it was the wrong part - but that's not a 'lie'. The case for 'lie by omission' needs to be made better than it has. And the 'amusement' quote is all through the comments on the page, being discussed, hardly hidden.
So, the only lies involved are the ones by the righties here saying the Crooks & Liars page lied. Of course, it's fun to see the righties cheering Pelosi.
I was reminded from the comments section about stories that Bush as a kid put firecrackers in frogs and blew them up for amusement...
All you left-leaning librul moonbats can go to hell. You're making us lose the war, you defeatists traitors. Support the troops! :| 
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
Hermann Göring during Nürnberg trials.
I love reading P&N.
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
Hermann Göring during Nürnberg trials.
I love reading P&N.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
- 59
- 86
Have the people who love to quote Goering, who was also a drug addict and a big-time bullshitter, ever stopped to think that the current US opinion on the Iraq war and the WoT pretty much decimates his claim?Originally posted by: KIRBYEE
All you left-leaning librul moonbats can go to hell. You're making us lose the war, you defeatists traitors. Support the troops! :|
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
Hermann Göring during Nürnberg trials.
I love reading P&N.
Maybe it worked for the Germans but it lost something in the translation to English.
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Have the people who love to quote Goering, who was also a drug addict and a big-time bullshitter, ever stopped to think that the current US opinion on the Iraq war and the WoT pretty much decimates his claim?Originally posted by: KIRBYEE
All you left-leaning librul moonbats can go to hell. You're making us lose the war, you defeatists traitors. Support the troops! :|
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
Hermann Göring during Nürnberg trials.
I love reading P&N.
Maybe it worked for the Germans but it lost something in the translation to English.
No, not at all? In fact Iraq is a perfect example of people employing what he said and having it work to a T. They sold the invasion based on fear of Saddam attacking us with WMD, and they questioned the patriotism (and still do question the patriotism) of anyone who disagreed and talk about how America will be in danger unless we do what Bush wants. Lets be honest here, people oppose the war NOW after it's become a complete catastrophe, but I bet you if you got an honest polling of Germany in 1944 or 1945 their people probably weren't too keen on Hitler's foreign policy either. So maybe the shine wears off.
While Goering might not be a great role model or anything, it certainly seems like this particular quote is pretty damn accurate. I guess you could say he might have overstated his case in saying 'always', as there are some distortions of reality that just go too far and some circumstances in which its not possible to use, but I would certainly say in a general sense his blueprint is a very effective one and it has been proven to work.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
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The invasion wasn't based on "fear of Saddam attacking us with WMD." It was based on the fact that Saddam wasn't supposed to have WMDs, period, and we dicked around for 12 years with him while he had already blatantl lied to us once on the issue. The fear was not that Saddam would attack us but that his WMDs, or his knowledge of WMDs, would make it into the hands of those who had already attacked us. Saddam may not have wanted to have AQ in Iraq because of his megalomaniacal tendencies and his control issues, but he wouldn't have been above providing them with some assistance and attacking us by proxy if he thought he could get away with it.Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Have the people who love to quote Goering, who was also a drug addict and a big-time bullshitter, ever stopped to think that the current US opinion on the Iraq war and the WoT pretty much decimates his claim?Originally posted by: KIRBYEE
All you left-leaning librul moonbats can go to hell. You're making us lose the war, you defeatists traitors. Support the troops! :|
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
Hermann Göring during Nürnberg trials.
I love reading P&N.
Maybe it worked for the Germans but it lost something in the translation to English.
No, not at all? In fact Iraq is a perfect example of people employing what he said and having it work to a T. They sold the invasion based on fear of Saddam attacking us with WMD, and they questioned the patriotism (and still do question the patriotism) of anyone who disagreed and talk about how America will be in danger unless we do what Bush wants. Lets be honest here, people oppose the war NOW after it's become a complete catastrophe, but I bet you if you got an honest polling of Germany in 1944 or 1945 their people probably weren't too keen on Hitler's foreign policy either. So maybe the shine wears off.
While Goering might not be a great role model or anything, it certainly seems like this particular quote is pretty damn accurate. I guess you could say he might have overstated his case in saying 'always', as there are some distortions of reality that just go too far and some circumstances in which its not possible to use, but I would certainly say in a general sense his blueprint is a very effective one and it has been proven to work.
THAT was the concern.
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Have the people who love to quote Goering, who was also a drug addict and a big-time bullshitter, ever stopped to think that the current US opinion on the Iraq war and the WoT pretty much decimates his claim?Originally posted by: KIRBYEE
All you left-leaning librul moonbats can go to hell. You're making us lose the war, you defeatists traitors. Support the troops! :|
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
Hermann Göring during Nürnberg trials.
I love reading P&N.
Maybe it worked for the Germans but it lost something in the translation to English.
That must be why the Bush administration was unable to invade Iraq; why he has been unable to stay there over 4 years; why the public so opposed the war when it began.
TLC looks at the irrelevancies - 'drug addict'. In our society with its free press and free speech, in a war in which what they said has all gone so wrong, now that the war has lasted longer than the US war in WWII, sure there is some opposition. You might note that the German people came not to think too much of Hitler and WWII themselves.
The wrongness of Goering's comments must also be why Reagan was unable to invade Grenada for no good reason, why Bush 41 was unable to kill thousands of Panamanians to get a rogue CIA resource running that country, why the US was unable to ruin its outstanding policies in the Great Society to waste billions and 58,000 Americans killed to try to stop Vietnamese people from being free of colonialism, killing millions of them.
Ya, his comments are clearly wrong.
The idea is that when people are told his comments, they might realize the wrongness of the policies. Some do.
Similar observations have been made by others - Walter Lippman in his classic "Public Opinion" in which he writes, horrified by his experiences in seeing how the government could send thousands of speechmakers out into the public and change opinion to be in favor of entering WWI, about how public opinion is formed and democracy doesn't really work according to the theory; or Chris Hedges' "War is a Force That Gives Us Meaning", which describes the mass psychology where 'war' unifies publics behind their governments.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
- 59
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I'm not surprised one bit that a Nazi agrees with your own ideology.Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Have the people who love to quote Goering, who was also a drug addict and a big-time bullshitter, ever stopped to think that the current US opinion on the Iraq war and the WoT pretty much decimates his claim?Originally posted by: KIRBYEE
All you left-leaning librul moonbats can go to hell. You're making us lose the war, you defeatists traitors. Support the troops! :|
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
Hermann Göring during Nürnberg trials.
I love reading P&N.
Maybe it worked for the Germans but it lost something in the translation to English.
That must be why the Bush administration was unable to invade Iraq; why he has been unable to stay there over 4 years; why the public so opposed the war when it began.
TLC looks at the irrelevancies - 'drug addict'. In our society with its free press and free speech, in a war in which what they said has all gone so wrong, now that the war has lasted longer than the US war in WWII, sure there is some opposition. You might note that the German people came not to think too much of Hitler and WWII themselves.
The wrongness of Goering's comments must also be why Reagan was unable to invade Grenada for no good reason, why Bush 41 was unable to kill thousands of Panamanians to get a rogue CIA resource running that country, why the US was unable to ruin its outstanding policies in the Great Society to waste billions and 58,000 Americans killed to try to stop Vietnamese people from being free of colonialism, killing millions of them.
Ya, his comments are clearly wrong.
The idea is that when people are told his comments, they might realize the wrongness of the policies. Some do.
Similar observations have been made by others - Walter Lippman in his classic "Public Opinion" in which he writes, horrified by his experiences in seeing how the government could send thousands of speechmakers out into the public and change opinion to be in favor of entering WWI, about how public opinion is formed and democracy doesn't really work according to the theory; or Chris Hedges' "War is a Force That Gives Us Meaning", which describes the mass psychology where 'war' unifies publics behind their governments.
Yeah I know how riled up the American public gets when countries violate UN resolutions. Nothing angries them up for war like defiance of the Security Council. Are you kidding? Either way I'm not particularly interested in how you try to justify this idiotic war, you admitted that I was right. The fear of Saddam's WMDs (however they might be used) was what motivated Americans to support our invasion. So, the only thing this does is prove Goering right.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
- 59
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You mean you know how riled up we get because so often it's a country whose ass we already kicked once in a war and that country is flaunting the UN resolutions?
Yeah, that happens all the time. :roll:
I'm not even sure what you're saying right now. You're either implying that the American public DOES get riled up about defiance of the UN, which is obviously wrong, or you are agreeing with me... in which case I'm not sure why you posted.
I'm not surprised that you posted something so clueless, as usual, as to mix up the Nazi propagandists comments on how propaganda works, with 'ideology', which we differ on.
You can't make any point worth listening to, and so you try to say things like 'ha ha, a Nazi said something you think is true, got ya'. The idiocy!
Hate to tell ya, foolish TLC, but the Nazis were evil, not incapable of any true statement. They built some guns that shot, some missiles that flew, and they even ran some trains on time.
It's possible to recognize the truth both that agrees with them - say, rocket science - and that does not - say, that it's a nifty idea to exterminate people. You can't do that, it appears.
Is it any wonder you are getting a rep as one of the bigger trolls on the forum that you waste time with things like implying that comments on how propaganda works equals being a nazi?
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
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I'm telling you that your sweeping generalization about US public reaction to UN resolutions left out some important and pertinent facts in regard to Sadam/Iraq.
I have no idea why you're trying to play dumb about those pertinent facts except that ignoring them seems to fit your agenda and makes your statement about UN resolutions seem rather stupid.
Nor am I sure why I posted either, because you're so often a waste of time.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
- 59
- 86
Uh oh! Someone's just realized they made a stupid comment earlier. Better try and pick a juvenile fight instead of admit you're wrong! I hope everyone notices how when I called you out for being wrong about Goering and you realized you were trapped that now you're trying to pivot to a new argument that you think you can win.
I'm not going to debate the US public's opinion of UN resolutions in regards to Iraq with you. As soon as I pin you down again you'll just run away to some new argument. At this point I think a lot of people would put you right up there with dmcowen as the two biggest trolls on here.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
- Sep 12, 2004
- 16,852
- 59
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Looks like 5 democrats have class. The rest are partisans.
The 196 House members who voted today to table the censure resolution ? putting off consideration indefinitely, in effect killing the resolution ? were all fellow Democrats. Five Democrats joined 168 Republicans in voting not to table it. Another 8 Democrats voted ?present,? and 55 members did not vote.
Here's the text of his apology - that of course came AFTER the vote for his censure. I question his sincerity as it's the "I apologize for offending but don't retract my comment" type. But at least he acknowledged that he should be insignificant
?I want to apologize to, first of all, my colleagues, many of whom I?ve offended; the president, his family; to the troops that may have found in my remarks, as were suggested in the motion that we just voted on, and I do apologize,? he said. ?I hope that with this apology I will become as insignificant as I should be, and that we can return to the issues that do divide us, but that we can resolve in a better fashion.
?I yield back the balance of my time,? he concluded, to applause.
Here's some nice history of the guy...
The political almanac recalls that, at a committee hearing in May 2001, Mr. Stark declared ? incorrectly ? that all the children of then-Representative J. C. Watts, an Oklahoma Republican, had been born out of wedlock. When Mr. Watts confronted him face to face, Mr. Stark further angered him with a flippant remark, a gesture that might have been a tad reckless, given that Mr. Watts was a football star at the University of Oklahoma and is a few decades younger than Mr. Stark.
The 196 House members who voted today to table the censure resolution ? putting off consideration indefinitely, in effect killing the resolution ? were all fellow Democrats. Five Democrats joined 168 Republicans in voting not to table it. Another 8 Democrats voted ?present,? and 55 members did not vote.
Here's the text of his apology - that of course came AFTER the vote for his censure. I question his sincerity as it's the "I apologize for offending but don't retract my comment" type. But at least he acknowledged that he should be insignificant
?I want to apologize to, first of all, my colleagues, many of whom I?ve offended; the president, his family; to the troops that may have found in my remarks, as were suggested in the motion that we just voted on, and I do apologize,? he said. ?I hope that with this apology I will become as insignificant as I should be, and that we can return to the issues that do divide us, but that we can resolve in a better fashion.
?I yield back the balance of my time,? he concluded, to applause.
Here's some nice history of the guy...
The political almanac recalls that, at a committee hearing in May 2001, Mr. Stark declared ? incorrectly ? that all the children of then-Representative J. C. Watts, an Oklahoma Republican, had been born out of wedlock. When Mr. Watts confronted him face to face, Mr. Stark further angered him with a flippant remark, a gesture that might have been a tad reckless, given that Mr. Watts was a football star at the University of Oklahoma and is a few decades younger than Mr. Stark.
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