Personal property taxes on my business due by September 14th and

[Bowfinger]

Actually Obama said something quite different and has a gaggle of followers swooping in to protect his flanks and make everyone agree that he not only meant something else, he actually said something else.

The old "Who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?" lost a lot of validity with the Internet and the instant replay. (Thanks, Algore!)

Indeed it did, though the irony of your comment is sadly lost on you. I'd quote the statement in context again, but you're one of several who've shown pervasive partisan blindness when you need your daily dose of outrage.

 

[sixone]

They do to the exact same extent as anything else supported by tax dollars.

And you're still missing the point, which is, again, that Romney acknowledged the importance of community support for personal achievement, exactly the same way Obama did.

No, you're missing the point. Romney was cheering the achievers, just as much as the community support they received.

Where was Obama's cheering for the business people? Please quote it for us.

 

[Orignal Earl]

There is no doubt in my mind that without Liberal policies, a lot of Conservative posters would never of made it past grade school

 

[fskimospy]

This thread has reached total perfection.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

No, you're missing the point. Romney was cheering the achievers, just as much as the community support they received.

So you admit that Romney, like Obama, was saying that achievers relied on community support, including public infrastructure paid for by tax dollars.

Glad we got that straight.

 

[Matt1970]

They do to the exact same extent as anything else supported by tax dollars.

And you're still missing the point, which is, again, that Romney acknowledged the importance of community support for personal achievement, exactly the same way Obama did.



You're a liar or idiot, as I said. No other options available here.

The video shows with 100% clarity that Obama was saying that business onwers didn't build the infrastructure that helps their businesses run. This is made obvious by the emphasis on the word "that" at the end of the sentence - if he was referring to the businesses, he would not have intoned in that manner. Also evident is the fact that he also said "that" before the phrase "you didn't build that".

This video contrasts the tone and language Obama actually used with Romney's misrepresentation of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-z-U57BaSc&feature=player_embedded -- if Obama meant what Romney claimed, he'd have said it the way Romney said it here. He didn't.

Romney's not stupid, so he has deliberately mischaracterized Obama's comments because, like many of his supporters here, he's a lying asshole -- just like the people who have deliberately mischaracterized Romney's comments on the poor and other subjects.

Will you stop it already. Even if the business owners didn't build the infrastructure with their own to hands it was their tax dollars that did. It was also the tax dollars of the people they employ. Where the hell do you think the money came from?

 

[sixone]

So you admit that Romney, like Obama, was saying that achievers relied on community support, including public infrastructure paid for by tax dollars.

Glad we got that straight.

So you're ducking the point that Obama doesn't want to give credit to those who actually achieve something.

Glad we got that straight.

 

[Matt1970]

So you admit that Romney, like Obama, was saying that achievers relied on community support, including public infrastructure paid for by tax dollars.

Glad we got that straight.

We all know that. We don't need a 3rd grade lecture from the President to tell us that. Paid for by tax dollars from the achievers and the taxes from the people they employ.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Will you stop it already.

Happy to, as soon as people stop mischaracterizing comments.

Even if the business owners didn't build the infrastructure with their own to hands it was their tax dollars that did.

In some cases, yes. In others, no.

So you're ducking the point that Obama doesn't want to give credit to those who actually achieve something.

He specifically did give credit to those people, right in the same speech. But you knew that already.

 

[sixone]

He specifically did give credit to those people, right in the same speech. But you knew that already.

No, I didn't. Quote it for me.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."

Emphasis mine.

And for good measure, a quote from the SotU speech:

You see, an economy built to last is one where we encourage the talent and ingenuity of every person in this country. That means women should earn equal pay for equal work. (Applause.)
...

It means we should support everyone who’s willing to work, and every risk-taker and entrepreneur who aspires to become the next Steve Jobs. After all, innovation is what America has always been about. Most new jobs are created in start-ups and small businesses. So let’s pass an agenda that helps them succeed.

 

[fskimospy]

Emphasis mine.

And for good measure, a quote from the SotU speech:

I'm kind of glad it turned out this way. In case anyone was wondering about the utter dishonesty in their parsing of Obama's statement all you need to do is look at their reaction to Romney saying the exact same thing.

 

[sixone]

Emphasis mine.

And for good measure, a quote from the SotU speech:

Four words, out of that whole speech. Clearly in stark opposition to this:

No, no, look -- I mean, we’re having a good, healthy, democratic debate. That’s how this works. And on their side, they’ve got a basic theory about how you grow the economy. And the theory is very simple: They think that the economy grows from the top down. So their basic theory is, if wealthy investors are doing well then everybody does well. So if we spend trillions of dollars on more tax cuts mostly for the wealthy, that that’s somehow going to create jobs, even if we have to pay for it by gutting education and gutting job-training programs and gutting transportation projects, and maybe even seeing middle-class folks have a higher tax burden.

AUDIENCE: No!

THE PRESIDENT: So that’s part number one, right. More tax cuts for those at the top.

Part number two is they believe if you tear down all the regulations that we’ve put in place -- for example, on Wall Street banks or on insurance companies or on credit card companies or on polluters -- that somehow the economy is going to do much, much better. So those are their two theories. They’ve got the tax cuts for the high end, and they’ve got rollback regulation.

Now, here’s the problem. You may have guessed -- we tried this. We tried this in the last decade and it did not work.

Does that look like support for risk-takers and entrepreneurs to you?

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Four words, out of that whole speech. Clearly in stark opposition to this:

Christ, you really like moving the goalposts every time one of your false claims is debunked, don't you? You just move from one diversion to the next, hoping nobody will notice that every single thing you say about the speech was wrong.

Anything but actually READ or WATCH the speech, apparently.

Here's another quote from the speech, which took me less than a minute to find:

And then I'd talk to some working folks, and I'd think about Michelle's family -- her dad who was a blue-collar worker, worked at a water filtration plant in Chicago, and her mom was a secretary. And yet, despite never having a lot, there was so much love and so much passion -- and her dad had MS, so he had to wake up an hour earlier than everybody else just to get to work because it took him that long to get dressed, and he could barely walk. But he never missed a day’s work -- because he took pride in the idea that, you know what, I’m going to earn my way and look after my family. (Applause.) And I’d see that same pride in the people I was talking to.

And what this reminded me of was that, at the heart of this country, its central idea is the idea that in this country, if you’re willing to work hard, if you’re willing to take responsibility, you can make it if you try.
...
That’s the idea of America. It doesn’t matter what you look like. It doesn’t matter where you come from. It doesn’t matter what your last name is. You can live out the American Dream. That’s what binds us all together.

Gee, what an unAmerican guy. Obviously hates individual effort and perseverance and success.

I am so fed up with fucking right-wing idiots who can't think and can't read and can't even make an EFFORT to be fair about how they portray their opponents.

 

[Bowfinger]

[ ... ]
I am so fed up with fucking right-wing idiots who can't think and can't read and can't even make an EFFORT to be fair about how they portray their opponents.

Welcome to P&N. There are intelligent, reasoned conservatives here. Unfortunately, they don't post often.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

There are intelligent, reasoned conservatives here.

Let me guess: they ride unicorns?

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Four words, out of that whole speech. Clearly in stark opposition to this:



Does that look like support for risk-takers and entrepreneurs to you?

Looks like support for sanity.

 

[Bowfinger]

Let me guess: they ride unicorns?

That might explain why they show up so rarely.

 

[werepossum]

Indeed it did, though the irony of your comment is sadly lost on you. I'd quote the statement in context again, but you're one of several who've shown pervasive partisan blindness when you need your daily dose of outrage.

The irony here is that Obama said exactly what we said he said, twice. You want to use context to shift the meaning to something more politically viable, which MIGHT be true, and then to further deny that the Messiah said something different - which CANNOT be true.

 

[fskimospy]

The irony here is that Obama said exactly what we said he said, twice. You want to use context to shift the meaning to something more politically viable, which MIGHT be true, and then to further deny that the Messiah said something different - which CANNOT be true.

Your ODS is in full bloom in this thread.

Obama and Romney both made functionally identical statements: that individual success comes with assistance from others. You flipped out about one of those two people and barely mentioned a word about the other. Coincidence?

 

[Charles Kozierok]

The irony here is that Obama said exactly what we said he said, twice.

And Romney also said "I like to fire people" and "I'm not concerned about the very poor".

Out of context is out of context. Just as dishonest is dishonest.

 

[boomerang]

LOL at progs whose idea of enlightened discussion occurs after you agree with them. The discussion can then move to the finer points where once again, all is well if you agree with them.

Oh and before I forget, Obama parroted what Elizabeth Warren had said months earlier. Such sage words that they deserved to be repeated. Big whoopsie.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

LOL at progs whose idea of enlightened discussion occurs after you agree with them. The discussion can then move to the finer points where once again, all is well if you agree with them.

Try a rational counter-argument instead of puerile whining. It might be more effective.

 

[sixone]

Christ, you really like moving the goalposts every time one of your false claims is debunked, don't you? You just move from one diversion to the next, hoping nobody will notice that every single thing you say about the speech was wrong.

Anything but actually READ or WATCH the speech, apparently.

Here's another quote from the speech, which took me less than a minute to find:

You haven't debunked anything. When he says the same things over and over and over again, it's silly to claim that he meant something different ONCE.

His idea of support for the achievers is "Go you...now fork it over." His idea of support for the non-achievers is "We'll make them pay their fair share."

Gee, what an unAmerican guy. Obviously hates individual effort and perseverance and success.

I don't think he gives a flying flip about individual effort or perseverance. Success however, must be diminished and divided.

I am so fed up with fucking right-wing idiots who can't think and can't read and can't even make an EFFORT to be fair about how they portray their opponents.

Boo flipping hoo.

 

[fskimospy]

You haven't debunked anything. When he says the same things over and over and over again, it's silly to claim that he meant something different ONCE.

Thank you! After all these pages and pages you have finally realized why you guys were so utterly and laughably wrong.