Personal observations on the immigration fight

[judasmachine]

I live about 10 miles from Cactus, TX which was one of the Swift plants that was raided by ICE, a few months ago, and thought I'd point out some of the repercussions that are factual whether they support my personal belief or not. I actually went out around town and tried to talk to people, and these points are what I found. And a word about Cactus, it's a very small town that sprang up next to the largest feedlot in the region, and the Swift/Monfort/Con Ag plant that was raided. They sell that plant back to each other over and over and over like it's a fruitcake.

1. Cactus was a ghost town for about a week.
2. This Swift plant shut down completely for 3 days, but after that run with only two shifts.
3. Starting wage went up to $10.85 from around $9/hour.
4. The local Latin community is dead silent. They won't talk to anyone.
5. Many local businesses are reporting large losses.
6. The local Wal-Mart is hiring, a lot.
7. Somehow the local Western Union is not suffering at all, and their biggest customers are sending money to Mexico and Costa Rica.
8. The Laotian warlords that were paid to lay down their arms and move to the rural US, are taking over many local crap jobs.
9. The Sheriff is one happy dude. (As many of the community of Dumas)
10. Cactus is recovering slowly. The more I go there, the more people I see.

 

[Socio]

If ICE rounded up illegal?s in their raid then that Swift plant should have been shut down permanently and the owners arrested.

If you do not punish the ones doing the illegal hiring they will just wait a little while and hire illegal?s all over again.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Socio
If ICE rounded up illegal?s in their raid then that Swift plant should have been shut down permanently and the owners arrested.

If you do not punish the ones doing the illegal hiring they will just wait a little while and hire illegal?s all over again.

QFT! Stop the reason for them sneaking across the border, and they will stop coming. They need to start busting homeowners for hiring them as day-laborers, and as maids, gardeners, etc. as well. Starh hitting people with a $1000/day fine for each worker, and pretty soon, Joe Smith will stop hiring them where they hang out at Home Depot or the street corner known for being a day-laborer pick-up spot.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: Socio
If ICE rounded up illegal?s in their raid then that Swift plant should have been shut down permanently and the owners arrested.

If you do not punish the ones doing the illegal hiring they will just wait a little while and hire illegal?s all over again.

and also please get the people renting to them as well.

 

[Phokus]

Laotian warlords?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: Socio
If ICE rounded up illegal?s in their raid then that Swift plant should have been shut down permanently and the owners arrested.

If you do not punish the ones doing the illegal hiring they will just wait a little while and hire illegal?s all over again.

and also please get the people renting to them as well.

And of course the ones selling them food.

Seriously, it's the people who hire them that are enabling this. If they have no job then they have no money for rent, food, indeed no reason to even come here in the first place.

 

[EagleKeeper]

One problem is the paperwork requirements that the employers have.

they potential employee has to show 2 types of identification, both are easily stolen, lent or manufactured for a few dollars and the proper illegal connections.

Once the company has been shown those documents, their hands are "clean". They do not have to verify the docs are valid or copies.

Thus it is very possible the company expects to hire illegals, yet they have fulfilled their obligations in requesting the documentation stating that the person is authorized to work in the US.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
One problem is the paperwork requirements that the employers have.

they potential employee has to show 2 types of identification, both are easily stolen, lent or manufactured for a few dollars and the proper illegal connections.

Once the company has been shown those documents, their hands are "clean". They do not have to verify the docs are valid or copies.

Thus it is very possible the company expects to hire illegals, yet they have fulfilled their obligations in requesting the documentation stating that the person is authorized to work in the US.

Valid ID should be required to wire money overseas too. We need to start a full assault on every reason these people come here illegally, with the stiffest penalties for our own citizens that enable them. I've done mission work in the poor slums of Mexico, and I dont blame them a bit for coming here. Penalizing them wont deter them, so we have to start here at home.

 

[babylon5]

Your personal observations near border is insightful. Us living in cities don't know what it is like live near the border.

Good to hear Laotian Legal Immigrants took over those jobs. That is the way it is done, LEGAL immigrants. And wages went up!

 

[EagleKeeper]

The problem is what is considered to be a valid ID and what is the means to verify it.

Juan Smo can get an "ID" at most convenience stores.

What paperwork is actually verified at the DMV offices before a license and/or state ID is handed out.

There is at least one person here at has had some-one else use his SS#. For the employer, that perp is valid.


In Georgia, the concept of a ID was shot down due to discrimination claims.

One would have to associate a fingerprint with an ID and embedded it in the document; and that goes against the right of self incrimination. - Look at the flap over the DNA data banks.
Every employer and place that would be required to verify the ID would have to have the equipment and/or skills to take the fingerprints of the person and verify them against the ID.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: babylon5
Your personal observations near border is insightful. Us living in cities don't know what it is like live near the border.

Good to hear Laotian Legal Immigrants took over those jobs. That is the way it is done, LEGAL immigrants. And wages went up!

But those observations DEFY what the drones keep telling everyone.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
The problem is what is considered to be a valid ID and what is the means to verify it.

Juan Smo can get an "ID" at most convenience stores.

What paperwork is actually verified at the DMV offices before a license and/or state ID is handed out.

There is at least one person here at has had some-one else use his SS#. For the employer, that perp is valid.


In Georgia, the concept of a ID was shot down due to discrimination claims.

One would have to associate a fingerprint with an ID and embedded it in the document; and that goes against the right of self incrimination. - Look at the flap over the DNA data banks.
Every employer and place that would be required to verify the ID would have to have the equipment and/or skills to take the fingerprints of the person and verify them against the ID.

I think alot could be done by hunting down SS numbers that would show up on a computer readout as having more then one job.

Also, when applying for a drivers license you should have to have a certifed copy of your birth certificate and you SS number. Tying those three things together would make it pretty tough to get a fake idea that can withstand a little database verifacation. And as an additional safeguard you couild have the feds keeping track of who's paying into what SS numbers. ANytime they see more then one employer payuing into a SS account they could check it out?

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Originally posted by: judasmachine

4. The local Latin community is dead silent.

Please change the subject noun to Latino... Latin and Latino are two very different things...

Otherwise, quite interesting post.

 

[zephyrprime]

Originally posted by: Socio
If ICE rounded up illegal?s in their raid then that Swift plant should have been shut down permanently and the owners arrested.

If you do not punish the ones doing the illegal hiring they will just wait a little while and hire illegal?s all over again.

Don't worry. I'm sure they will get a slap on the wrist to keep them in line!

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
The problem is what is considered to be a valid ID and what is the means to verify it.

Juan Smo can get an "ID" at most convenience stores.

What paperwork is actually verified at the DMV offices before a license and/or state ID is handed out.

There is at least one person here at has had some-one else use his SS#. For the employer, that perp is valid.


In Georgia, the concept of a ID was shot down due to discrimination claims.

One would have to associate a fingerprint with an ID and embedded it in the document; and that goes against the right of self incrimination. - Look at the flap over the DNA data banks.
Every employer and place that would be required to verify the ID would have to have the equipment and/or skills to take the fingerprints of the person and verify them against the ID.

I think alot could be done by hunting down SS numbers that would show up on a computer readout as having more then one job.

Also, when applying for a drivers license you should have to have a certifed copy of your birth certificate and your SS number. Tying those three things together would make it pretty tough to get a fake idea that can withstand a little database verifacation. And as an additional safeguard you couild have the feds keeping track of who's paying into what SS numbers. Anytime they see more then one employer payuing into a SS account they could check it out?

Congress has prevented that double feeding in the SS from being checked.
People that double feed provide tax money that can be spent. You would not want congress to tighten their belts?

The IRS data also is to be kept seperate and not used for law enforcement.

the problem becomes requiring verification by the employer of the data.
A SS#/fingerprint combo would do wonders with a certified copy of the birth certificate and/or government permission to work in the US.
Here in NV anyone working in the gaming industry has to have a check done; why not force the same nationwide. It is up to the employer to determine who will foot the cost.

Again, some will complain that providing the fingerprint will cause it to be entered into a database for retrieval?verification at a later date and therefore could be used to violate the 5th amendment of self incrimination.

 

[1EZduzit]

Wouldn't it be nice if the citizens could get together, introduce a bill and force the bastards to vote on it.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
One problem is the paperwork requirements that the employers have.

they potential employee has to show 2 types of identification, both are easily stolen, lent or manufactured for a few dollars and the proper illegal connections.

Once the company has been shown those documents, their hands are "clean". They do not have to verify the docs are valid or copies.

Thus it is very possible the company expects to hire illegals, yet they have fulfilled their obligations in requesting the documentation stating that the person is authorized to work in the US.

Valid ID should be required to wire money overseas too. We need to start a full assault on every reason these people come here illegally, with the stiffest penalties for our own citizens that enable them. I've done mission work in the poor slums of Mexico, and I dont blame them a bit for coming here. Penalizing them wont deter them, so we have to start here at home.

It is a fundamental responsibility of a government to protect it's own borders.

So, our government can't or won't and now we're gonna penalize the sh!t out of individual citizens and their businesses? How about the governement do it's job first?

Over here in NC until very recently the state DMV issued valid drivers licenses to illegals left & right. The only way they cut down on it was because the people actually living here got tired of the day long waits to get or renew their drivers license.

Illegals from all over the SE used to come here. It was widely known and reported in the papers etc.

My wife is here on a greencard. I was there when she told them so. The person in DMV said "you speak good English, don't worry". My wife again told her she didn't wanna be registered as a voter cuz she's a foreign citizen.

I know they registered her anyway because she was called for jury duty. WTF???

Now, our government does jack sh!t to enforce the border etc, and then gives illegals valid drivers licenses, yet you wanna penalize our citizens and their businesses?

And others of you seem to want businesses here to have some sort of acess to the SS database? Are you fvcking crazy? Hello identity theft. Criminals will absolutely love it.

There is some sort of government pilot program to verify SS#s for employers. Currenty it's only being used by only the very largest employers AFAIK. But I hope they're d@mn careful with this, so far our government can't even keep nuclear secrets at Lao Alamos and other labs under wraps.

Forget about trying to have employers check for fraudulent IDs. No way they can be expert enough to do that (then there's the problem of official crap issued to illegals by OUR government anyway). H3ll, most people can't tell conterfiet money.

How you gonna tell if SS cards, birth certificates etc are bogus? How can any business be expert on all 50 states (plus DC) drivers licenses?

You, as an employer, "question" a person about the legitamacy of their documents because they are Latino and don't speak English really well (or without an accent) are just begging for trouble- get ready to be sued big time for discrimination etc.

Whether or not it sticks is irrelevant. The legal fees will kill you.

This big effin mess starts with letting people across the border illegally. That's the first thing that needs to be fixed.

Fern

 

[1EZduzit]

It all needs fixed and if we can send a man to the moon we out to be able to solve this problem.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
It all needs fixed and if we can send a man to the moon we out to be able to solve this problem.

Man to the moon (ignoring the tin foil beanies) was a solving of a technical problem.

this is a few orders of magnitude higher. We have the technology - just need to find the political backbone.

And that equates to close to Infinity / Zero

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Wouldn't it be nice if the citizens could get together, introduce a bill and force the bastards to vote on it.

People have done that in California and other places with ballot initiatives. The activists then just shop for a sympathetic judge and have them overturn it. Our government is not a government of the people anymore.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Wouldn't it be nice if the citizens could get together, introduce a bill and force the bastards to vote on it.

People have done that in California and other places with ballot initiatives. The activists then just shop for a sympathetic judge and have them overturn it. Our government is not a government of the people anymore.

I'm thinking that the people ought to be able to force just one vote a year on them... on an issue the people want addressed. Screw what the big money wants. Then they have to take a stand on something.

Edit: Where did you user name come from? Is that from the old Lil' Abner cartoon?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
It all needs fixed and if we can send a man to the moon we out to be able to solve this problem.

Man to the moon (ignoring the tin foil beanies) was a solving of a technical problem.

this is a few orders of magnitude higher. We have the technology - just need to find the political backbone.

And that equates to close to Infinity / Zero

From what I can see, I think the people have the political will and want it done. The goverment can see it too and that's why they keep throwing out a few bones, to make it look like they are doing something about it.

If we could figure out a way to tie this to some other things the people feel strongly about.... who knows?

 

[piasabird]

Short of moving the active duty troops to the border and shooting people that try to come accross what are you going to do?

I think landmines might help.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Short of moving the active duty troops to the border and shooting people that try to come accross what are you going to do?

I think landmines might help.

Two twenty foot high fences with constantina wire lining the tops 100 yards apart with land mines between. Signs every 100 feet in every language used in the world explaining the setup.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Short of moving the active duty troops to the border and shooting people that try to come accross what are you going to do?

I think landmines might help.

Oh please, get real. How about we implale an illegal every 1/2 mile along the border? Hey, maybe poison water fountains would do the trick?