nobodyknows
Diamond Member
- Sep 28, 2008
- 5,474
- 0
- 0
Then I guess the only thoing for you to do is quit paying your taxes. Let me know how that goes.
nobodyknows
Diamond Member
- Sep 28, 2008
- 5,474
- 0
- 0
I would like to take this time to present you with an award for having THE most appropriate username in this particular thread.
:gift:
Congrats.
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
- 34
- 91
So your answer is to stop paying taxes or continue with the ridiculous spending unchecked? Why are you how you are?
I have read in several places that the Canadian healthcare system costs less per capita than the current US system.
As I pointed out in another thread, here in Ontario, we pay less tax than people in California, plus we have a socialized healthcare system. Perhaps you guys should research how we implemented our system. It might be easier to model yours after what they have in Europe, but really I have no complaints regarding what we have here.
blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 22,902
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- 126
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
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Unfortunately we can't model a UHC plan after anyone. Our politicians are nose deep into special interest a-holes so our plan will end up being put together with Scotch tape instead of using a bulldozer and starting from scratch.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Right.... they'll only be "unaffected" by this supposed "reform" until employers start dropping Insurance offerings as a benefit since it'll be cheaper to pay the "fine" than the insurance. But hey, keep your eyes closed if you wish while you accept the next step to socialism.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
There are two main reasons why healthcare costs too much in the US:
1. The doctors make too much money.
2. The administrative costs are too high.
By going with a socialized system, the doctors will earn way less money, plus it greatly reduces if not eliminates the cost of administration. People like CAD ignorantly use the word "socialism" like it's some sort of evil dirty word. It does have its place. Perhaps CAD has never been laid off before. :light:
1. The doctors make too much money.
2. The administrative costs are too high.
By going with a socialized system, the doctors will earn way less money, plus it greatly reduces if not eliminates the cost of administration. People like CAD ignorantly use the word "socialism" like it's some sort of evil dirty word. It does have its place. Perhaps CAD has never been laid off before. :light:
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
No, I am not ignorantly using "socialism". Just because it isn't soviet style doesn't mean that this supposed "reform" isn't the next step towards socialism.
A great many doctors do not make "too much money".
Administrations costs are high in many respects due to Gov't interference and controls.
A "socialized" system may reduce wages(very likely) but one would be a fool to think that somehow Administration costs would be reduced. Hell, there would be a bureaucrat for damn near everything if the Feds took over the whole thing.
Here in Ontario, when you go to the doctor's office, they just swipe your government health insurance card, and that's it you're done. I'm not sure what the costs are at the government level, but it seems very simple and streamlined.
As I said, the cost of healthcare here is cheaper per capita than it is in the US. It is by a significant margin as well. It is to the point that it probably negates any tax advantage the middle class may have in certain parts of the US compared with the parts of Canada that pay higher taxes.
I will tell you, here in Canada people revile "for profit" healthcare way more than you Americans seem to revile "socialized" healthcare. IMO you guys should blow up your current system and start over, modeling it after Canada's system or else that of Norway or France. If it doesn't pan out I'm sure that the doctors would be willing to work in the private sector again.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Wouldn't a better solution be to have those that want cradle to grave gov't teet sucking move to a place that has that instead of trying to destroy a system(despite it's flaws) works quite well and people are generally happy with?
You also have to understand that our nation is different from any other nation in the world. We were founded because we wanted liberty and believed individualism was sacred.
BTW, you're welcome for much of the innovation in the field of medicine your gov't(tax payers anyway) provides you.
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Wouldn't a better solution be to have those that want cradle to grave gov't teet sucking move to a place that has that instead of trying to destroy a system(despite it's flaws) works quite well and people are generally happy with?
You also have to understand that our nation is different from any other nation in the world. We were founded because we wanted liberty and believed individualism was sacred.
BTW, you're welcome for much of the innovation in the field of medicine your gov't(tax payers anyway) provides you.
If people are happy with the US healthcare system, then why is there all this talk of reform? Are the people who cannot afford it happy with it? What about people who have to pay for cancer treatment?
What is ironic about your statement is the fact that Canadians hold more civil liberties than Americans do. In terms of individuality, that's your business. Noone is going to take that away from you, whether you live in Canada or the US. You can argue about what each nation was founded upon, but quite frankly in today's world it doesn't make much of a difference. Your own Republican right-wing government took away many of your freedoms, and yet you continue you preach a right wing agenda while having the audacity to say that freedom is sacred?
BTW if America was founded on liberty, then why was slavery legal? Canada abolished it first.
BTW, Canada has contributed more than its fair share of medical research. Diabetes were cured by a Canadian along with a large number of other discoveries.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Wouldn't a better solution be to have those that want cradle to grave gov't teet sucking move to a place that has that instead of trying to destroy a system(despite it's flaws) works quite well and people are generally happy with?
You also have to understand that our nation is different from any other nation in the world. We were founded because we wanted liberty and believed individualism was sacred.
BTW, you're welcome for much of the innovation in the field of medicine your gov't(tax payers anyway) provides you.
If people are happy with the US healthcare system, then why is there all this talk of reform? Are the people who cannot afford it happy with it? What about people who have to pay for cancer treatment?
What is ironic about your statement is the fact that Canadians hold more civil liberties than Americans do. In terms of individuality, that's your business. Noone is going to take that away from you, whether you live in Canada or the US. You can argue about what each nation was founded upon, but quite frankly in today's world it doesn't make much of a difference. Your own Republican right-wing government took away many of your freedoms, and yet you continue you preach a right wing agenda while having the audacity to say that freedom is sacred?
BTW if America was founded on liberty, then why was slavery legal? Canada abolished it first.
BTW, Canada has contributed more than its fair share of medical research. Diabetes were cured by a Canadian along with a large number of other discoveries.
There is no question there is room for reform, but this leap to socialism(coded as "gov't option") is an absurd answer to the issues people raise about our current system.
lol, you can think that canucks have more "civil liberties" if you wish but it's clearly not the case. Yes, you can point to a few differences here and there but to claim you have more is just absurd. The point was, that our nation was founded to PREVENT and get away from central control so reviling socialism isn't a big surprise and I think you underestimate the amount of people who "revile" it.
Ok then CAD, seeing as it's easy to be critical, why don't you give us some solutions to the current healthcare problem then? Your "status quo is fine" response doesn't fly with me.
So what do you suggest?
So what do you suggest?
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
http://www.rasmussenreports.co...ing_congressional_plan
:shrug;
How about small bills that address specific problems instead of some gigantic monstrosity that no one reads nor has many specifics regarding changes.
Well, I applaud you guys for voting Obama in, however there's not much you can do about him now. He's not doing as well as I would have expected. You guys are still in Iraq. He seems to have dropped the ball on this healthcare issue. I agree that taking smaller steps probably would have made more sense; address the issues one at a time.
Really though, how is he going to do all that much when he's only raising taxes on people who earn more than $250,000 per year?
They say that the only reason Canada was able to afford implementing a socialized healthcare system was because we stayed out of the Vietnam war.
At the end of the day, you guys need to either reduce how much doctors make, or else reduce the cost of administration. I would imagine that a 'salary cap' on doctors would be considered "Anti-American" (despite the fact that professional athletes are often bound by one). I'm sure that there is a more efficient way to run the administration, and in fact it may make sense for the government to do it.
Really though, how is he going to do all that much when he's only raising taxes on people who earn more than $250,000 per year?
They say that the only reason Canada was able to afford implementing a socialized healthcare system was because we stayed out of the Vietnam war.
At the end of the day, you guys need to either reduce how much doctors make, or else reduce the cost of administration. I would imagine that a 'salary cap' on doctors would be considered "Anti-American" (despite the fact that professional athletes are often bound by one). I'm sure that there is a more efficient way to run the administration, and in fact it may make sense for the government to do it.
Well, DUH!!!! Turn everyone into slave laborers and costs go down!
The average doctor makes <$150k per year (Google it). A U.S. congressman makes $174k per year. The average baseball player makes $3.2m per year.
How much *should* a doctor be making?
It's not an easy subject, but if we plan to increase care, we have to increase the number of doctors, which is not going to happen if we cut their salaries by much more, especially while the Obama Administration is not considering tort reform.
Originally posted by: cubby1223
Well, DUH!!!! Turn everyone into slave laborers and costs go down!
The average doctor makes <$150k per year (Google it). A U.S. congressman makes $174k per year. The average baseball player makes $3.2m per year.
How much *should* a doctor be making?
It's not an easy subject, but if we plan to increase care, we have to increase the number of doctors, which is not going to happen if we cut their salaries by much more, especially while the Obama Administration is not considering tort reform.
Well, doctors here in Canada usually make less than $100,000 per year. Many specialists make more than that, but most regular doctors don't.
Many doctors here leave for the US. We have shortages but primarily in very remote areas where there are other shortages as well. Really though, where are the doctors going to go? I highly doubt they would leave the US for the mideast or Europe. We don't lose enough doctors to create a major problem.
Your congressmen are overpaid. Our senators make $130,000.
I don't really know what a doctor should make. $150,000 sounds pretty reasonable actually in light of their level of education. I think that the insurance companies comprise the bulk of the problem.
squirrel dog
Diamond Member
- Oct 10, 1999
- 5,564
- 48
- 91
Originally posted by: SickBeast
There are two main reasons why healthcare costs too much in the US:
1. The doctors make too much money.
2. The administrative costs are too high.
TORT REFORM !!!!!!! Drs pay a ton for malpractice ins to pay off
lawsuits against them.
There are two main reasons why healthcare costs too much in the US:
1. The doctors make too much money.
2. The administrative costs are too high.
TORT REFORM !!!!!!! Drs pay a ton for malpractice ins to pay off
lawsuits against them.
blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 22,902
- 2,359
- 126
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Wouldn't a better solution be to have those that want cradle to grave gov't teet sucking move to a place that has that instead of trying to destroy a system(despite it's flaws) works quite well and people are generally happy with?
You also have to understand that our nation is different from any other nation in the world. We were founded because we wanted liberty and believed individualism was sacred.
BTW, you're welcome for much of the innovation in the field of medicine your gov't(tax payers anyway) provides you.
If people are happy with the US healthcare system, then why is there all this talk of reform? Are the people who cannot afford it happy with it? What about people who have to pay for cancer treatment?
What is ironic about your statement is the fact that Canadians hold more civil liberties than Americans do. In terms of individuality, that's your business. Noone is going to take that away from you, whether you live in Canada or the US. You can argue about what each nation was founded upon, but quite frankly in today's world it doesn't make much of a difference. Your own Republican right-wing government took away many of your freedoms, and yet you continue you preach a right wing agenda while having the audacity to say that freedom is sacred?
BTW if America was founded on liberty, then why was slavery legal? Canada abolished it first.
BTW, Canada has contributed more than its fair share of medical research. Diabetes were cured by a Canadian along with a large number of other discoveries.
Are you referring to the isolation of insulin for diabetes treatment? That is NOT a cure. Or maybe youre referring to the first islet of Langerhans transplants? Ah yes. Those were actually refined by University of Illinois at Chicago, based on initial work in Ontario.
But diabetes is NOT cured.
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