Personal "cost" of current proposal

[Fingolfin269]

I'm concerned that the current legislation will pass and none of us know anything about how it will be paid for. We assume there will be savings but at the end of the day there will be added cost. This cost has to be paid and one would believe it will come via some sort of taxation.

I've asked for this information before but usually in the middle of some other thread. Instead of hiding it let's just bring it to the forefront.

This is not a thread about how it is good for society. I don't want hopes and dreams, puppy dogs and ice cream to be discussed here. Let's talk facts as they specifically relate to an INDIVIDUAL (or family) TAXPAYER (if you don't pay taxes... Yah).

(Note: I am for reform. However, I'm not comfortable with a proposal that does not speicifically spell out who, what, when, where, and how much. Is that so much to ask?)

 

[Andrew1990]

This seems like a very valid question. I too would like to know.

:thumbsup:

 

[CPA]

Well, based on the current CARS funding fiasco (went from $1B to $3B due to poor fiscal management), whatever the feds tell you triple it.

 

[woodie1]

I really doubt that anyone knows.

 

[nobodyknows]

Try calling your local hospital for some prices and get back to us.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: CPA
Well, based on the current CARS funding fiasco (went from $1B to $3B due to poor fiscal management), whatever the feds tell you triple it.

damn, that's some quality BS right there.

 

[Athena]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
Try calling your local hospital for some prices and get back to us.

I?ll have the, ummm, health care please.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

It is a very legitimate question. I predict that the end result will be that it will result in an increase of government spending. Perhaps the budget deficit will increase or maybe taxes on the wealthy will increase. (Oh noes! Throckmorton the Third won't be able to afford 10 new yachts every year! He'll only be able to afford five new yachts because of evil taxes! It's socialism and it could be the very end of the world as we know it! Think of poor Throckmorton. He's never worked a day in his life and now he's going to get taxed! Oh the humanity!)

Of course, real health care reform would pay for itself and result in increased coverage with a net savings of money spent by our society merely by adopting one of the systems that other nations use. Soup-rise, other nations spend far less of their GDP on health care, sometimes have more doctors per capita, no medical bankrupticies, and full coverage. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to recognize that the American system as it stands now is unsustainable and badly broken, but you do have to be a free market dogmatist town hall moron to oppose the establishment of a tried and proven national health care system.

 

[thegimp03]

See, they're not telling you because they already know that it's going to cost a lot more than is actually estimated or publicized. Wow, we don't even know all the facts and the government is trying to blow this through. Hilarious.

 

[Fingolfin269]

And like I said I'm for reform. I agree with those who say a complete overhaul of the system would probably net out in overall savings while offering preventative care for all. However, my fear is a bill that is obviously a half ass attempt to do... Something, because anything iis better than nothing.
Until someone can lay out how much this is going to cost per tax bracket, whether you are employee insured or not, I will continue to be against it.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: Athena

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
Try calling your local hospital for some prices and get back to us.

I?ll have the, ummm, health care please.

This does nothing but dance around my specific question. Try again.

 

[shadow9d9]

It is amazing how legislation that will help americans has caused so many people on the internet to magically care about the "cost" yet no one cared for 8 years while the deficit doubled and all we got for it was 30,000+ injured, 5k dead, and 100,000 dead iraqis...

 

[Vic]

As there is no UHC or even single-payer on the table, the personal 'cost' is likely going to be whatever your health insurance premiums already are. The funniest thing about this 'dog days' argument going on right now is that the reality is that the majority of Americans are going to be unaffected by this 'reform.'

But hey, let the idiot wingnuts spin, kind of like Palin's nonsense thatvoluntary end-of-life counseling sessions to discourage heroic measures that are nearly always unsuccessful were going to be 'death panels.' There's stupid, and then there's just stupidly dishonest.
.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: CPA
Well, based on the current CARS funding fiasco (went from $1B to $3B due to poor fiscal management), whatever the feds tell you triple it.

damn, that's some quality BS right there.

How's it BS.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: CPA
Well, based on the current CARS funding fiasco (went from $1B to $3B due to poor fiscal management), whatever the feds tell you triple it.

damn, that's some quality BS right there.

How's it BS.

That CARS cost more than expected is an indication of the program's success, not of its failure. The irony here is that there are literally countless examples of legitimate govt cost overruns that could have been cited here, it's just CARS isn't one of them.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
It is amazing how legislation that will help Americans has caused so many people on the internet to magically care about the "cost" yet no one cared for 8 years while the deficit doubled and all we got for it was 30,000+ injured, 5k dead, and 100,000 dead iraqis...

At this point,the politicians do not have any handle on what they want - therefore it is difficult to tell how many it will help, how many it will hurt and what the per taxpayer cost will be.

We all can agree that it will not be transparent - there is not enough $$ that Obama can soak the"rich" to cover the cost - therefore it will have to come out of the middle class and employers.

Whether the politicians have the gonads to stand up to the drug companies, legal and insurance lobbies and the medical profession to try and develop something decent has not been shown.

As long as they can print money for later use; there is no need for them to tackle the hard questions - those can be put off until next session, etc.

Just like the SS and the immigration issues; it is easier to bury their heads and do nothing - allowing the problem to fester and be solved by the next guy up to bat.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Vic
The funniest thing about this 'dog days' argument going on right now is that the reality is that the majority of Americans are going to be unaffected by this 'reform.'

Does this statement have an expiration date?

 

[Darwin333]

Taxes must go up on just about everyone regardless.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Vic
The funniest thing about this 'dog days' argument going on right now is that the reality is that the majority of Americans are going to be unaffected by this 'reform.'

Does this statement have an expiration date?

Feel free to hold it against me later should I prove to be wrong.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: CPA
Well, based on the current CARS funding fiasco (went from $1B to $3B due to poor fiscal management), whatever the feds tell you triple it.

damn, that's some quality BS right there.

How's it BS.

That CARS cost more than expected is an indication of the program's success, not of its failure. The irony here is that there are literally countless examples of legitimate govt cost overruns that could have been cited here, it's just CARS isn't one of them.

CARS was a success in terms of getting people on board. It's a true success if the $3 billion we spent helped spur the economy more than $3 billion worth. Or it helped save the environment in $3 billion or whatever. I'm not saying it's a failure or whatever, but success isn't determined by the number of people who jump on board.

You could create UHC that's so lucrative everyone jumps on board, but it could be so terribly run that we need more money and to raise taxes to insane amounts. Is it a success then because lots of people jumped on? What if it turned into a social security type drama where it's going broke. Is it then successful because everyone's still onboard the doomsday failboat? I don't know about that.

The choice of CARS was definitely terrible, but Medicare is probably the best example of something eating up our budget. Many infrastructure projects are the best examples of WHY government runs into cost overruns all the time.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
It is amazing how legislation that will help americans has caused so many people on the internet to magically care about the "cost" yet no one cared for 8 years while the deficit doubled and all we got for it was 30,000+ injured, 5k dead, and 100,000 dead iraqis...

Dude what are you like 5?

 

[Xellos2099]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
It is amazing how legislation that will help americans has caused so many people on the internet to magically care about the "cost" yet no one cared for 8 years while the deficit doubled and all we got for it was 30,000+ injured, 5k dead, and 100,000 dead iraqis...

More smoke and mirror.

 

[rchiu]

Realistically, no single person have a clue what the real cost of the current proposal will be until after it is really implemented. If anyone tell you otherwise, the person is lying.

It comes down to trust and track record. Show me one goverment program that is run cost effectly and run well and I will put my trust in the government.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
It is amazing how legislation that will help americans has caused so many people on the internet to magically care about the "cost" yet no one cared for 8 years while the deficit doubled and all we got for it was 30,000+ injured, 5k dead, and 100,000 dead iraqis...

Dude what are you like 5?

Did you just say "dude" and then call someone 5?

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: rchiu
Realistically, no single person have a clue what the real cost of the current proposal will be until after it is really implemented. If anyone tell you otherwise, the person is lying.

It comes down to trust and track record. Show me one goverment program that is run cost effectly and run well and I will put my trust in the government.

Health care is like defense. Cost isn't the big concern, getting things done right is.

Since you are speaking English and not German, Japanese, or Russian the goverment seem to have been running that "program" rather effectively??