Performance per Watt optimized gaming system - now vs. next cycle?

[naddicott]

Yet another "now or later" post, though I'd prefer now if the performance per watt next cycle isn't likely to be significantly better. Can also be a refresh everything but the GPU upgrade. Already looking at Fractal Design R5 for the case but other components I'm looking for suggestions.

1. What YOUR PC will be used for.
Gaming. Quiet is a priority but not to extreme levels (big quiet fans are fine). Oculus Rift capable with medium settings / shadows off for Star Citizen is a goal.

2. What YOUR budget is.
$1500-2000. Care more about hitting sweet spots for:
A) Performance per watt (electric bills are high)
B) Performance per dollar
C) Performance per decibel

3. What country
USA

5. IF YOU have a brand preference.
Intel CPU
Slight preference for AMD GPU (for long term driver support - help forestall Nvidia monopoly).
Drive needs to be a brand with good reliability track record. Been happy with Samsung SSD but open.

6. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.
I have an AMD 7850 (2GB) that could be used while waiting for the next generation of GPUs (die shrink / lower watt?).
Pretty sure the i5 750 and 8GB DDR3 RAM bought with it need updating...
Monitor is fine (1080p) - OR will be a later purchase (version 2 or after a price drop)
I have a consumer Windows 7 that could be installed and then upgraded to 10. (Edit: I'll buy 10 home so I can still use old system)
(Edit: I have a DVD drive for installation that I'll remove when done)

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking.
If anything, underclocking or running at reduced voltages if safe/stable.

8. What resolution, not monitor size, will you be using?
1080P (eventually - Oculus Rift resolution - whatever that is...)

9. WHEN do you plan to build it?
Next 6 months unless consensus is to wait for next cycle for Performance per Watt gains on multiple components.

10. Do you need to purchase any software?
No - have an ample Steam backlog.
(Edit: 10 Home)

 

[MrTeal]

Well, performance per watt on the non-GPU aspects of the system shouldn't change much in the next year, so a system upgrade now would be fine.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($399.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($89.94 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Z170A-X1/3.1 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($98.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($89.89 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 1TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($294.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Toshiba 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($83.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA P2 650W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG WH16NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($49.99 @ Micro Center)
Total: $1279.76
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-02-12 13:44 EST-0500

For the GPU, it depends what's in your Steam backlog. If you're playing mostly older games @1080p, you might be fine with the 7850 for another 6 months. If you're wanting to play newer games, it might be worthwhile picking up a 970 for <$300 with the intention of selling it for $200 once the new generation of cards comes out. I'd say it would be better to wait for the VR headsets and the next 16/14nm GPUs to launch before spending a huge chunk on a GPU.

 

[Ken g6]

We can do a little better than that:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($395.00 @ B&H)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($69.89 @ OutletPC) - big and slow fan.
Motherboard: *ASRock Z170M Extreme4 Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($116.98 @ Newegg) - mATX board uses a few less Watts.
Memory: *GeIL Dragon RAM 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2800 Memory ($84.99 @ Newegg) - 1.2V RAM, almost as fast.
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 1TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($294.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Green 3TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($96.99 @ Directron) - With a big SSD you can afford a slow, low-power HDD.
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA P2 650W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG WH16NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($49.99 @ Micro Center)
Total: $1288.81
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-02-12 14:14 EST-0500

 

[naddicott]

Thanks guys! I appreciate the voltage optimization comments Ken_g6.
Forgot to mention that I have an optical drive for Windows instillation that I'll remove after (for airflow) or I may just attempt to install from USB. That and I guess I'll get a new 10 Home license so the old box can be repurposed for a 3D printer station. (I'll edit OP)

Would I need additional fans for the R5 with these parts? Summer temps get into the 90s (no AC).

Biggest backlog title is I've bought FO4 but haven't had time to play. I can live with low settings / shadows off if it can still be 1080p.

 

[MrTeal]

We can do a little better than that:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($395.00 @ B&H)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($69.89 @ OutletPC) - big and slow fan.
Motherboard: *ASRock Z170M Extreme4 Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($116.98 @ Newegg) - mATX board uses a few less Watts.
Memory: *GeIL Dragon RAM 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2800 Memory ($84.99 @ Newegg) - 1.2V RAM, almost as fast.
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 1TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($294.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Green 3TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($96.99 @ Directron) - With a big SSD you can afford a slow, low-power HDD.
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA P2 650W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG WH16NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($49.99 @ Micro Center)
Total: $1288.81
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-02-12 14:14 EST-0500

Yeah, the D15 is a bit of diminishing returns v the U14S, but the $8 of bundled with the CPU narrows the gap a bit. Without OCing, either would work well.
On the HDD, you can definitely go lower speed/power on the HDD, but 15% more for a slower drive seems a little excessive. Depends how much it'll spin up, of course, but if it's idle most of the time the power difference could be negligible.
For the RAM, it's six of one, half dozen of the other. The Vengence LPX is 1.2V @ 2800 as well. The GeIL would work well too, if white is your thing.

For the MB, other than the size of the board do you have a link to test data that shows the mATX board uses less power than the ATX?

 

[Ken g6]

For the MB, other than the size of the board do you have a link to test data that shows the mATX board uses less power than the ATX?

Not exactly, but that's what the PCPartPicker estimate shows:

Your build:
Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor 11W - 91W
Noctua NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler 5W - 10W
ASRock Z170A-X1/3.1 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard 17W - 70W
Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory 14W - 14W
Toshiba 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive 4W - 20W
Samsung 850 EVO-Series 1TB 2.5" Solid State Drive 2W - 10W
Total: 53W - 215W

My build:
Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor 11W - 91W
Noctua NH-U14S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler 5W - 10W
ASRock Z170M Extreme4 Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard 15W - 60W
GeIL Dragon RAM 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2800 Memory 11W - 11W
Western Digital Caviar Green 3TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive 3W - 15W
Samsung 850 EVO-Series 1TB 2.5" Solid State Drive 2W - 10W
Total: 47W - 197W

 

[Yuriman]

^ These seem like high numbers, considering my Ivy Bridge system idles in the mid 30's, including around 10w from my video card, and draws around 100w under an AVX load with a 4ghz OC. I'm guessing these numbers are inflated by nearly 100%.

OP might be better served with an i7 6700, given that the 6700K is in the area of vastly diminishing returns - 50% higher TDP for 18% higher baseclock and 5% higher max turbo.

An HD7850 still has respectable performance per watt, compared to the rest of AMD's lineup. Things haven't improved significantly there. Hold onto it until the next die shrink.

Going ITX might offer even more power savings, but at the expense of two RAM slots.

 

[naddicott]

Agreed on the i7 6700 over 6700K.

My brain is hurting researching the Z170 Motherboards.

Tweaktown has power usage data for the Z170 Extreme4+ here:
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7295/asrock-z170-extreme4-intel-motherboard-review/index10.html
(edit: under standardized conditions: 79W Idle, 202W load system power consumption)

My (many years) old motherboard brand loyalty made me peek at an ASUS review with power measurements here:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9729/the-asus-z170-a-motherboard-review/5
(edit): a tweaktown review of the ASUS z170-a (standardized conditions: 72W Idle, 183W load system power consumption)
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7506/asus-z170-intel-motherboard-review/index10.html
Despite the differences in methodology, the idle load levels seem comparable and I like the option of 4 case fan headers (though just planning on 3 at the moment).

Modified part list (current system estimate: 44W-171W w/o GPU):
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($329.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($69.89 @ OutletPC)
Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver 3.5g Thermal Paste ($4.58 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Asus Z170-A ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($153.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: *GeIL Dragon RAM 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2800 Memory ($84.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 1TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($294.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA P2 650W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM (64-bit) ($87.95 @ OutletPC)
Wireless Network Adapter: Intel 7260HMWDTX1 802.11a/b/g/n/ac PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter ($45.99 @ Newegg)
Case Fan: Antec TRUEQUIET 140 32.4 CFM 140mm Fan ($11.89 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1264.24
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-02-13 00:52 EST-0500

 

[Yuriman]

There are quite a few tweak I would suggest, but I'll start with those that won't necessitate changes to other components. Your current selections are solid, but there's the possibility of saving some money, saving some space, and saving some more power.

CPU cooler - that Noctua is a fantastic cooler, but is massive overkill for a 65w chip that can't be overclocked. I personally use this Noctua cooler for my i5, and I don't see greater than 65c under an AVX load, and with my current (very conservative) fan speed profile, it's still inaudible over ambient noise in my house. It has the added advantage of being very easy to work around in my case.

While still on the topic of cooling, one of the forum members here did a roundup of a few popular thermal compounds:

^ His testing shows that the compound that is included with all of Noctua's heatsinks is superior to Arctic Silver, and other sites support his findings.

(will add another post with additional recommendations, so the forum doesn't eat it all)

 

[Yuriman]

There's nothing wrong with Asus, but their products generally cost more without any huge advantage over their competitors', unless you're looking at a feature specific to the board.

In the past, Asus has always been on the higher-end when it comes to power consumption, with low-power being a huge selling point for MSI, and to a lesser extent, Gigabyte.

http://www.techspot.com/review/1073-intel-z170-motherboard-roundup/page7.html

I had a hard time finding results for Z170 motherboards, but going off this small sample, it looks like this round, EVGA holds the lead, while MSI and Asus are to be avoided in terms of motherboard power consumption, at least in the product category of full-sized ATX motherboards. Admittedly, it's only a few watts though, and probably won't amount to much over the life of the system.

You don't necessarily need a more-expensive Z170-based board if you're getting a non-K chip, as the Z170 chipset's main (and only?) advantage over H170 is that it allows overclocking. There is more variety in Z170 boards available than H170, though.

This ASRock mATX board seems to match every feature of the $40 more expensive Asus board, while having superior onboard audio.

This Gigabyte mATX board additionally has a built-in amplifier, which should provide tangible benefits if you use headphones a lot, and will likely have better positional audio due to Creative's software suite. You'll probably find a lot of mixed opinions on the Killer NIC and Creative software, but they're arguably advantages.

This Gigabyte ITX board additionally already comes with (I believe) the same Intel WiFI module you were going to buy separately.

Food for thought: when I moved from a full ATX board to ITX, I shaved almost 30w off of my idle power consumption. MicroATX has basically no disadvantages over a full-sized ATX board, unless you intend to run 3 or 4 video cards. In fact, it seems to be the standard that most manufacturers are targeting now, with ATX boards holding a premium due to being a less common form factor now.

As I mentioned above, ITX is also an option, though you give up the option of running SLI or Crossfire, and are limited to two RAM slots. Otherwise, ITX boards generally match full-sized ATX boards feature-to-feature these days.

 

[Yuriman]

If you decide to go with a mATX motherboard, you have the option of downsizing your case. Smaller cases will have the air inside of them replaced more often with the same amount of airflow, or can get away with fewer/slower fans, in my experience.

This is Fractal's equivalent mATX case. Its dimensions are 195 x 370 x 450mm, compared with the R5's 232 x 451 x 521mm. You lose out on 4 3.5" drive bays, and basically nothing else. Having a smaller case may or may not be an advantage to you, but I live in what's damn near a tiny home, and my wife's and my PC together take up less than half the footprint of a traditional ATX midtower. If I personally had the Fractal Core 1500, I'd probably cover up the 2x120mm fan slots on top, as fewer fans = less noise, and the extra airflow will probably not cause a noticeable improvement in temps, given your component selection.

I don't expect you'll end up going ITX, but I'm going to lay out my thoughts for you anyway.

I opted for this case in a lot of my recent builds:

^ This particular case has an excellent layout and makes nearly perfect use of its space, but you're limited in video card selection by the length of the case - a GTX 970 or Fury Nano are going to be the fastest cards you can fit - and airflow. I probably wouldn't recommend anything that fast, as the airflow necessary for them isn't there without modification. For my HD7850, it's a perfect match.

Silverstone has a couple of neat cases:

The Raven and Milo both lay the video card horizontally, and make excellent use of their volume, with practically no wasted space. They fit long video cards, and because of their design, require no added fans, as components that produce heat have vents right next to them. IMO, these cases are generally well thought-out pieces of engineering. The disadvantage that prevents me from using them in a lot of builds is that you need to use an SFX form factor power supply, as these cases are narrower than the height of a normal ATX PSU, though there are some really great SFX PSU options available now.

Another common layout puts the motherboard horizontally, as is exemplified by the Silverstone Sugo. This layout allows for long video cards, provides better venting than the DIYPC case I'm using, and allows for the use of an ATX PSU, but having the power supply over the motherboard makes swapping components a pain. Generally there is also unused space in the front, which is unappealing to me, as it makes these cases larger than is necessary for the components they house. The Fractal Node resolves these issues by placing the power supply in the front, and instead having a large 140mm fan over the motherboard in the back.

None of these ITX cases have a 5.25" bay, but you can find cases with these layouts that do, if you need it.

 

[naddicott]

Some good food for thought, thanks!

I do want at least 3 headers for case fans which rules out a couple of those MoBos. With the dust in the office I want to be sure to maintain positive pressure inside.

I'm also concerned about leaving flexibility for future GPU upgrades. A single dual GPU card is probably going to draw less power than two in SLI, but that might mean a big/long card. I'm worried if I go too small with the case then I might not be able to fit the card I want.

I will definitely go with the more modest CPU cooler and the included thermal compound.

 

[Yuriman]

One last point - most Noctua fans come with a bunch of accessories, if you decide to replace your case fans with Noctua models. This is what you'll find in your typical box:

-Y splitter (2 fans on one header)
-Extension cable
-Low-noise adapter (in-line resistor -> lowers voltage)
-Rubber mounts
-Mounting screws

EDIT: mATX motherboards will still fit dual GPUs, JSYK.

 

[naddicott]

Ok, so I could make a board with 2 fan headers work using a splitter. It seems like every motherboard under $200 with wifi only has one slot, precluding ever doing SLI (not that I think that's likely vs a 2 GPU card). So my search is units with 2 x16 slots and one additional slot for the WiFi card (not so close that a double width card could block it), and 2 fan headers minimum. I'll look through the tweaktown reviews since they seem to test power use on lots of boards with consistent conditions.

I get that the little boards can handle big graphics cards, but not every little case has room, right? I think I'm still sold on the R5 case - good airflow (with filters) is good for longevity and I don't do full system updates very often.

 

[Yuriman]

Yeah, it's uncommon for mATX or ATX boards to have WiFi, and close to standard for ITX board, which necessarily have one PCIe slot due to their form factor. I think it's worth mentioning that mATX and ATX are cross-compatible, but ITX will not fit in an ATX case unless specifically noted, and vice versa.

I'm sure you'll enjoy the R5.

 

[naddicott]

Quick update before I order parts. Non-K 6700s are only $20 less than a 6700k right now (no free shipping). I also happened upon this SilentPCReview article:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1481-page5.html

According to their power use measurements and calculations the 6700 is best for performance per watt, but a non-OC'd 6700k is just 1% behind. So I'm back to a 6700k (just won't do any OCs requiring raised voltage).

I've also changed the Motherboard to a MSI Z170A SLI PLUS (ATX). I like that it doesn't have as many pointless features as the Asus I was looking at (like an old school PCI slot) and two of the 16x PCI-e slots are reinforced to support heavier graphics cards. I also picked RAM from the MSI approved vendor list to be careful. The motherboard has 3 case fan headers and room for the WiFi card.
(edit: power usage data - not bad at stock speeds http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2015/11/26/msi-z170a-sli-plus-review/4
http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/msi_z170a_sli_plus_review/12 - lowest power use of all boards listed)

Kept the Noctua cooler Ken suggested in case I ever do OC (and I like how it looks).

Here's the almost final parts list:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($394.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($69.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI Z170A SLI PLUS ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($139.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($79.99 @ B&H)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 1TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($294.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA P2 650W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home Full - USB (32/64-bit) ($105.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Wireless Network Adapter: Intel 7260HMWDTX1 802.11a/b/g/n/ac PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter ($45.99 @ Newegg)
Case Fan: Fractal Design GP14-WT 68.4 CFM 140mm Fan ($11.99 @ Newegg) - matches the ones that come with the case
Total: $1323.80
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-02-15 10:57 EST-0500

I'll be pulling the trigger later today most likely.

 

[Yuriman]

Looks pretty solid. I expect it should last at least as long as your previous PC.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I think it's worth mentioning that mATX and ATX are cross-compatible, but ITX will not fit in an ATX case unless specifically noted, and vice versa.

Pretty certain that you are incorrect about that. Any case that supports all potential ATX mounting holes should support ITX no problem. But there are cases that make assumptions about mounting holes and cut corners...

 

[Ken g6]

I currently have an ITX board mounted in a mATX case because I didn't get around to ordering an ITX case yet. It works fine.

 

[Yuriman]

Consider me corrected. I had no idea the holes lined up.