Performance Hits using an 8x APG card on a 4x AGP system?

[chiptouz]

Hello all,

I have the following configuration (listed below) and am about to update my Geforce 4 ti4400 to a Leadtek Geforce 6600 GT TDH.

I am thinking that this card, since it is so much faster will still be way better than the card I already have installed. What are your opinions?

system info:

Dell 8100
P4 Powerleaped to 2.6 ghz
WinXP
640 MB PC800 40 ns Rdram
PCPower&Cooling Turbo-Cool 350T
120 GB Maxtor ATA133, 7200 RPM, 8 MB Cache HD
60 GB Maxtor ATA133, 7200 RPM, 2 MB Cache HD
Samsung 48x CDRom Drive
Memorex X1 DVD Multiformat Burner
PNY Geforce 4 ti 4400 128 mb - Maybe changing
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz Sound card
Koutech IEEE 1394 3 port firewire PCI card
Koutech USB2.0 add on card
HP Photosmart 1215
HK695
BackUPS CS 350
Charter Cable

 

[Harvey]

If you motherboard only supports AGP 4x, and the card is not otherwise incompatible (voltage, etc.), the card will work, but you'll just hit the limit at whatever the card can do at AGP 4x.

 

[chiptouz]

I know that this card is backwards compatible to 4x AGP, I guess that I am just banking on the fact that this DirectX 9.x card will just be better than my current DirectX 8 (i think) Geforce 4 ti4400.

 

[RussianSensation]

The performance hit between AGP 1x and even 16x PCIe is minimal. So performance difference between AGP 4x and AGP 8x is almost nonexistent. If you think about it, AGP 1 x feeds 1 gig of memory bandwidth. Today's cards only use 256mb and 512 (not released yet) for texture storage. The time when that much information is needed for the GPU hasnt even come yet and videocards have existed for many decades now. AGP 4x is 4gigs of bandwidth. It'll take a long time before even the AGP slot is exhausted (in theoretical bandwidth). For the next 10 years, bandwidth wise, PCIe is nothing more than a marketing gimmick just like AGP8x is. The primary purpose for PCIe was to provide more power to the graphics card (ie. 75 watts of power) since the AGP slot cannot provide the necessary power, requiring those cards to often have 2 power connectors on the back. Its long term purpose for more bandwidth is good too. But unlike other computer components, it'll take decades before PCIe bandwidth is needed for graphics cards.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: chiptouz
I know that this card is backwards compatible to 4x AGP, I guess that I am just banking on the fact that this DirectX 9.x card will just be better than my current DirectX 8 (i think) Geforce 4 ti4400.

Yeah, should be a nice upgrade. I went from a Ti4200 -> 9600pro -> 9800pro. I didn't find much improvement in moving to the 9600p. The move to the 9800p was a very nice improvement though.

Running at 4x, instead of 8x is little to no performance diff as the above posters have explained in detail.

In going fron DX8 to DX9 (even with 9600p) showed nice graphical improvements. The things I noticed in that first move were lighting/shadowing "eye candy" improvements. The jump to the 9800p gave me better frames, higher resolutions and I was able to move up the gfx settings on games like Far Cry.

Fern

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
The performance hit between AGP 1x and even 16x PCIe is minimal. So performance difference between AGP 4x and AGP 8x is almost nonexistent. If you think about it, AGP 1 x feeds 1 gig of memory bandwidth. Today's cards only use 256mb and 512 (not released yet) for texture storage. The time when that much information is needed for the GPU hasnt even come yet and videocards have existed for many decades now. AGP 4x is 4gigs of bandwidth. It'll take a long time before even the AGP slot is exhausted (in theoretical bandwidth). For the next 10 years, bandwidth wise, PCIe is nothing more than a marketing gimmick just like AGP8x is. The primary purpose for PCIe was to provide more power to the graphics card (ie. 75 watts of power) since the AGP slot cannot provide the necessary power, requiring those cards to often have 2 power connectors on the back. Its long term purpose for more bandwidth is good too. But unlike other computer components, it'll take decades before PCIe bandwidth is needed for graphics cards.

AGP facts

More

Last but not least

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

AGP facts

More

Last but not least

Thanks for the heads up. I totally got the numbers confused. I remember reading it somewhere and for some reason that popped into my head. I was way off. Still even with reduced bandwidth rates you've provided, anything after AGP 2x is a waste today. So that argument still holds ground. There is no difference between AGP4x and 8x in the real world.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

AGP facts

More

Last but not least

Thanks for the heads up. I totally got the numbers confused. I remember reading it somewhere and for some reason that popped into my head. I was way off. Still even with reduced bandwidth rates you've provided, anything after AGP 2x is a waste today. So that argument still holds ground. There is no difference between AGP4x and 8x in the real world.

Pretty much yah.

 

[BFG10K]

The performance hit between AGP 1x and even 16x PCIe is minimal.

That's just nonsense.

 

[dguy6789]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

The performance hit between AGP 1x and even 16x PCIe is minimal.

That's just nonsense.

It has been shown to have a performance difference between 2X and 4X. However, there is no real difference between an X850XTPE on AGP4X and the same card on PCIe.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

AGP facts

More

Last but not least

Thanks for the heads up. I totally got the numbers confused. I remember reading it somewhere and for some reason that popped into my head. I was way off. Still even with reduced bandwidth rates you've provided, anything after AGP 2x is a waste today. So that argument still holds ground. There is no difference between AGP4x and 8x in the real world.

gonna say AGPx1 and gig of bandwidth looked way rong

 

[BobDaMenkey]

At most you're going to see maybe a 1% performance variance. Like others have already stated, todays cards still cant fully take advantage of the huge ammounts of bandwith we feed them.

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

The performance hit between AGP 1x and even 16x PCIe is minimal.

That's just nonsense.

Yeah sorry I was way off on that. I mentioned above I posted the wrong numbers initially. Luckily keys provided a proper link for the information. Given that AGP 1.0 3.3v 2X gives 528MB/sec memory bandwidth, you can expect a "minute" difference in benchmarks. But in the real world, if current cards supported AGP 2x you wouldnt see any difference. With today's fastest cards the performance difference between AGP 8x and PCIe is =<1%. The performance difference for 6600GT AGP at 4x or 8x should be <1%.

 

[chiptouz]

Hi all!

I installed the card last night and boy does it rock! It looks and performs so much better than my geforce 4 ti4400.

Great purchase overall! the Leadtek geforce 6600 gt tdh card rocks.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: chiptouz
Hi all!

I installed the card last night and boy does it rock! It looks and performs so much better than my geforce 4 ti4400.

Great purchase overall! the Leadtek geforce 6600 gt tdh card rocks.

Awesome :thumbsup:

 

[PrayForDeath]

Originally posted by: chiptouz
Hi all!

I installed the card last night and boy does it rock! It looks and performs so much better than my geforce 4 ti4400.

Great purchase overall! the Leadtek geforce 6600 gt tdh card rocks.

Congrats on the upgrade :beer:

 

[BFG10K]

However, there is no real difference between an X850XTPE on AGP4X and the same card on PCIe.

It's tough to say at this stage as there's no real way to test it. I'd say there'd be some kind of a difference though; less so between AGPx8 and PCIe.

Given that AGP 1.0 3.3v 2X gives 528MB/sec memory bandwidth, you can expect a "minute" difference in benchmarks.

Uh, no. As high as 42% in Jedi Academy with even ancient titles like GLQuake seeing a significant performance drop under AGP x1 (benchmarks done on a 9700 Pro).

 

[Munky]

I dont think it matters if it's agp 4x or 8x or pci-e as far as performance goes. Even agp 8x has a bandwidth of like 2 gigs/sec, which is nothing compared to the bandwidth of onboard graphics memory. If you do end up using agp texturing, you'll take a huge perormance hit no matter which agp speed you use.