performance difference in i7 3770k and AMD Fx8350 (3dsmax)

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Gikaseixas

Platinum Member
Jul 1, 2004
2,836
218
106
Your calculations for extra cost for power must be assuming full load 24 hours a day for the entire year, which is probably not realistic. However even if the computer is used six hour a day that would still be 25.00 per year.

...which we could safely say it's not a big difference. People often exaggerate on power consumption estimates and deltas between AMD and Intel. My pick would be a FX 8350 since the $120 price difference is enough to buy a good motherboard.
IDC and Frozentundra123456 thanks for the calculations.
 
Last edited:

nks

Member
Jan 8, 2013
31
0
0
Results are in. I tested both the FX8350 and the i7-3770K at multiple frequencies so you have the clockspeed scaling data with which you can compute the expected performance at any given OC for either processor.

Autodesk3dsMax20133770kvsFX8350graph.png


Both rigs used the same components (configured identically) for all tests excepting for the mobo and cpu.

Autodesk3dsMax20133770kvsFX8350.png


Basically the i7-3770K takes 0.76x the time to complete the benchmark at the same clockspeed, and the 3770k uses ~100W less than the FX8350 when both are clocked at 4GHz.

For people who are not familiar with this application, it pegs all cores/threads at 100%. I manually disabled turbo-core/boost but it didn't matter because both processors throttle back to base clockspeeds when running this benchmark.

Now lets talk price/performance...the 3770k costs ~$120 more than the FX8350 but it gets the job done (in this app) in only 0.76x the time at the same clockspeed.

If the 3770k computer (entire platform) costs $500 and the FX8350 costs $380 then you are still better off buying the 3770k rig because the price/performance is identical but the $500 rig will burn far less power (and cost less money per year).

If your electricity net costs you $0.115/kWHr then 1W costs you $1 over the course year. A 100W delta is a big delta, compounded by the fact that you get less performance despite all those watts, just not good.

For this application, the guy that can sell you an FX-8350 over an i7-3770K (or i7-3570K) is the guy that can sell ice to Eskimos ;)

Do you have i5 3570k
Or noe someone who can bench the file on core i5 3570k

Thanks a lot
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
64
91
Can I post a link of another forum???
It has the link for the benchmark file
And I am not able to private message as I am new on this forum. I can only private message admin.

Oh, yeah, absolutely that is ok. I didn't notice the link you sent me by pm (which I used) and the link in this thread were not the same.

By all means feel free to post the link to that benchmark thread in the other forum (I forget its name, I'm not trying to avoid saying it).

Do you have i5 3570k
Or noe someone who can bench the file on core i5 3570k

Thanks a lot

Sorry, no 3570k here.

I could disable HT on my 3770k and it would get close to simulating the performance of a 3570k but I can't do anything about the fact the 3770k has an extra 2MB of L3$ which will surely boost performance by some small (but non-zero) amount.
 
Last edited:

inf64

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2011
3,884
4,692
136
I think disabling HT would be just fine for simulating 3570K. But you would still need to run the tests again and measure the power draw etc. Good job IDC :).
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
126
...which we could safely say it's not a big difference. People often exaggerate on power consumption estimates and deltas between AMD and Intel. My pick would be a FX 8350 since the $120 price difference is enough to buy a good motherboard.
IDC and Frozentundra123456 thanks for the calculations.

I was not implying how significant the difference is, just that the caculations were for the heaviest possible use. I can see your point that you could save initially and buy a better MB, but OTOH, if you used the cpu at full power for 6 to 8 hours per day for 3 to 4 years, you would pretty much eat up the initial savings in power costs.
 

jvroig

Platinum Member
Nov 4, 2009
2,394
1
81
if you used the cpu at full power for 6 to 8 hours per day for 3 to 4 years, you would pretty much eat up the initial savings in power costs.

I agree with all the power consumption concerns (not a fan of "more watts, less performance" myself), but I would like to point out that the same amount of money now (today) is more valuable than an identical amount in 3-4 years (i.e., $100 now, vs $100 in 3-4 years)

If a business, for example, was considering two courses of action, A and B, where A incurs initial savings that will take 3-4 years to be 'nullified' due to overhead/maintenance costs (compared to B), and where B incurs initial extra initial costs, but will ROI in 3-4 years (compared to A), then NPV (and just general good cash flow management) will pretty much always side with choice A unless their lifespans were particularly protracted (15-20 years, such as real property, or maybe even a step down such as heavy machinery in production)

Therefore, if the metric in question is 'savings' (the maximization of which is the ideal), then any business/corporation with a good set of bean counters, if they were in this exact same quandary and had these exact same restrictions and central metric to consider to decide versus purchasing a Piledriver or an ivy Bridge, will end up choosing Piledriver. I do not wish to be misunderstood: again, this is only because we are within the strict confines of "which will save me money", and NPV and cash flow management (and no consideration of "minutes shaved off = directly more $$$$ in profit" or stuff of that sort because that was not in your exchange with Gikaseixas) will inevitably lead us to Piledriver in this specific scenario. Even if the initial savings were to be "eaten up" in 3-4 years, that would still be the better course of action (again, consider the caveat above regarding protracted lifespans, so planning to hold on to the machines for 10 years+ will screw the computation)


In the real world, most use cases for Piledriver and Ivy Bridge will no doubt be heavily in favor of Ivy Bridge (personally, I cannot see how I would choose Piledriver over Ivy if i had to build a new rig from scratch, so bias alert there), but in this particular theoretical one, where the focus has become "savings" ($$) and the benchmark chosen is particularly close, Piledriver gets the nod.


Edit: Or better yet, I see now that I should have just used time value of money since we are only talking of ~$100 bucks, then I wouldn't have had to use the business scenario but still ended up at the same point.

Edit 2: This same reasoning is why I do not believe in the cost-effectiveness of buying "lower-power stuff" in the name of savings, when the effective wattage (as you have pointed out correctly earlier on, depends on actual operational hours) talked about is actually pretty small and will take years to realize. I am not talking of enthusiasts (we do crazy things coz that's what we do, and it's all for science and hobby, no rationale required, otherwise we'd all be using Celeron G550's), but again of the business case for "clearing out" last-gen equipment for "lower-power"/"energy-efficient" models being aggressively hawked by account executives of the respective vendors. The cash flow and cost accounting simply doesn't support it for any realistic / sane operational model and not the exaggerated ones they use when they try to scare us with their powerpoint sildes.
 
Last edited:

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
146
106
A proper business would always look at the long term investment.

In terms of a business it would also value the higher impact on noise and indoor climate. AC needs to run more with the FX and so on.

And power is not about to get cheaper, only more costly. Specially India will put a huge future pressure on energy prices. And China is currently doing it.

coalprice1109.gif

coalcons31109.gif
 
Last edited:

nks

Member
Jan 8, 2013
31
0
0
Tests are in progress
salute.gif

Waiting for the results eagerly
Will be making purchases in next 24hours

I am thinking of getting i7 3770k and this will make upgrade free for next 3 years easily

This is the Maths I did according to hardware prices in my country
Core i7. 3770 k. - 400$ approx
Mobo msi. - 165 $ approx ( I can upgrade this mobo later)
Total - 565 $ approx



Amd fx 8350. - 250$ approx
Mobo asrock 990fx extreme 4. - 200$approx
Total. - 450$ approx

So getting core i7 will cost me more 115$
But I feel it is worth it.


But I seriously want to save money and if i5 is close to i7
Then I can have a good board in same price bracket.


I was never ever confused about upgrading
Have been usin computers since 80486 was launched
 

nks

Member
Jan 8, 2013
31
0
0
A proper business would always look at the long term investment.

In terms of a business it would also value the higher impact on noise and indoor climate. AC needs to run more with the FX and so on.

And power is not about to get cheaper, only more costly.

We are getting of the topic here
But if we talk about business then generally the value of a computer gets depreciated every year and it's value becomes zero after 3 years of use in balance sheet.
Good companies always do that because in 3 years generally everything about technology changes and warranty also expires in 3 years.

And if I have to make a business solution which uses 3dsmax and I need 20 computers then I will make sure that I get 8250
And then make 3-4 computers specially for rendering
Which will have dual Xeon setup (12 core)
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
146
106
We are getting of the topic here
But if we talk about business then generally the value of a computer gets depreciated every year and it's value becomes zero after 3 years of use in balance sheet.
Good companies always do that because in 3 years generally everything about technology changes and warranty also expires in 3 years.

And if I have to make a business solution which uses 3dsmax and I need 20 computers then I will make sure that I get 8250
And then make 3-4 computers specially for rendering
Which will have dual Xeon setup (12 core)

The running cost still keeps adding, nomatter the value of the hardware.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
64
91
Waiting for the results eagerly
Will be making purchases in next 24hours

Here are the results updated with HT disabled on the 3770k.

Autodesk3dsMax20133770kvs3770knoHTvsFX8350graph.png


Autodesk3dsMax20133770kvs3770knoHTvsFX8350.png


It appears that this is one of those apps where HT actually delivers a considerable performance increase, but even when it is disabled the ivy bridge cores deliver so much IPC in this app that 4 cores w/o HT still outperforms piledriver and at a considerable power savings to boot.
 

nks

Member
Jan 8, 2013
31
0
0
Here are the results updated with HT disabled on the 3770k.

Autodesk3dsMax20133770kvs3770knoHTvsFX8350graph.png


Autodesk3dsMax20133770kvs3770knoHTvsFX8350.png


It appears that this is one of those apps where HT actually delivers a considerable performance increase, but even when it is disabled the ivy bridge cores deliver so much IPC in this app that 4 cores w/o HT still outperforms piledriver and at a considerable power savings to boot.

i feel the results are surprising.
at 4ghz the difference between i7 with ht off and fx 8350 is 9 seconds.
and at this time also i7 is making use of its extra 2 mb cache compared to i5 3570k

so surprisingly i5 and fx8350 will perform almost same.
the only issue is about the power draw.
i noe thats a big problem but for me its not the deal breaker.

and also i will be ocing fx8350 to 4.5ghz for 24/7 use (it goes to 4.7 easily)
but i ccan oc i5 to only 4.2 ghz for 24/7 use. beyond that it will require more voltage bumps and that is not good for 24/7 use.

so what should i do????
 

guskline

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2006
5,338
476
126
I'll run the benchmarks tonight on my 8350 Oc'd to 4.6Ghz. I've said before and I'll say it again. If you are building from "scratch" (i.e. new mb and cpu) the 3770k is the way to go.

IF you have a decent AM3+ mb like I do ( Sabertooth 990FX) the 8350 might make more sense.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
64
91
i feel the results are surprising.
at 4ghz the difference between i7 with ht off and fx 8350 is 9 seconds.
and at this time also i7 is making use of its extra 2 mb cache compared to i5 3570k

so surprisingly i5 and fx8350 will perform almost same.
the only issue is about the power draw.
i noe thats a big problem but for me its not the deal breaker.

and also i will be ocing fx8350 to 4.5ghz for 24/7 use (it goes to 4.7 easily)
but i ccan oc i5 to only 4.2 ghz for 24/7 use. beyond that it will require more voltage bumps and that is not good for 24/7 use.

so what should i do????

Here in the USA the two are priced the same (8350 and 3570k), a reflection of the fact they do tend to perform comparably to one another (so price/performance is roughly the same).

What skews such an analysis for you is that prices for you are not comparable, the 3570k is much higher than the 8350.

OC'ing is not guaranteed on anything. You could get a lemon FX8350 that barely does 4.5GHz, or you could get a premium 3770k that does 4.8GHz. I caution you to not factor in OC'ing here as if it were a given.

At the end of it, when you ask "what should i do", the answer to your question depends on your answer to the following question "what is your time worth to you?"

If your time is worth so little to you that you'd rather keep $115 in your pocket and wait for your slow(er) computer to get the rendering done then obviously you should get the FX8350.

If your time, added up day after day for months and years to come, is worth more to you than having an extra $115 in your pocket then obviously you should get the 3770K.

I can't tell you how much you value that tradeoff. For me I value my time such that I'd buy the 3770k for this app* and not think twice about it.

* not entirely true, for this app I'd buy an i7-3970X (and OC it) and not think twice about the expense in comparison to the time I'd save and the things I could then do with all that time (like finally finish sorting that stamp collection :p).
 

nks

Member
Jan 8, 2013
31
0
0
I'll run the benchmarks tonight on my 8350 Oc'd to 4.6Ghz. I've said before and I'll say it again. If you are building from "scratch" (i.e. new mb and cpu) the 3770k is the way to go.

IF you have a decent AM3+ mb like I do ( Sabertooth 990FX) the 8350 might make more sense.
please do it asap
i am new to 3dsmax and i don't want to invest heavily as of now.
i can save almost 119$
and i will get very good mobo with piledriver and this way i can oc it to 4.7ghz easily.
whereas i7 or i5 can only be oce'd to 4.2-4.3 for 24/7 use.
and even if i get a i7 my budget won't allow me to have a nice mobo.
i will be going for a 200$ mobo maximum. this will hurt ocing i7 even more

i have to make purchase in the next 20 hours
so please finish the benchmark and show the results.
thanks
 

BrightCandle

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
4,762
0
76
please do it asap
i am new to 3dsmax and i don't want to invest heavily as of now.
i can save almost 119$
and i will get very good mobo with piledriver and this way i can oc it to 4.7ghz easily.
whereas i7 or i5 can only be oce'd to 4.2-4.3 for 24/7 use.
and even if i get a i7 my budget won't allow me to have a nice mobo.
i will be going for a 200$ mobo maximum. this will hurt ocing i7 even more

i have to make purchase in the next 20 hours
so please finish the benchmark and show the results.
thanks

If you are only worrying about this one app then you should get a 3770k or even consider a 3930k. Hyperthreading and multiple threads are showing a decent return and is well worth having for a few extra dollars compared to the cheaper i5 3570k. The 3930k might even bring nearly another 40% so that is well worth considering as an option.

However if you look at any other software you'll see the advantage increase, because this is about the 8350's best case scenario in terms of performance comparatively. In lots of other software the margin of difference widens.

The Intel 3770k will:
- less power.
- perform better.
- overclock just as well if not better than the 8350, 4.5Ghz 24/7 is pretty normal.
- likely cost less over the life of the product due to decreased power despite its higher initial cost.


Cheaper, faster, cooler what else is there?!
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
64
91
The performance scaling forumulas are in the graphs if you want to use them.

Autodesk3dsMax20133770kvs3770knoHTvsFX8350graph.png


At 4.6GHz we'd expect the FX8350 to turn in: 1469.8 x (4.6)^(-1.005) = 317s

At 4.7GHz we'd expect the FX8350 to turn in: 1469.8 x (4.7)^(-1.005) = 310s

At 4.2GHz we'd expect the 3770K to turn in: 1075.3 x (4.2)^(-0.969) = 267s

At 4.3GHz we'd expect the 3770K to turn in: 1075.3 x (4.3)^(-0.969) = 262s
 

LOL_Wut_Axel

Diamond Member
Mar 26, 2011
4,310
8
81
please do it asap
i am new to 3dsmax and i don't want to invest heavily as of now.
i can save almost 119$
and i will get very good mobo with piledriver and this way i can oc it to 4.7ghz easily.
whereas i7 or i5 can only be oce'd to 4.2-4.3 for 24/7 use.
and even if i get a i7 my budget won't allow me to have a nice mobo.
i will be going for a 200$ mobo maximum. this will hurt ocing i7 even more

i have to make purchase in the next 20 hours
so please finish the benchmark and show the results.
thanks

To get a good OC out of Piledriver you need 1) good luck (high overclocks are NOT guaranteed), 2) a more expensive motherboard than Ivy Bridge (you can OC a 3770K to the moon even on a 6+2 power phase motherboard, not so with Piledriver unless you want to risk frying the board) and 3) a comparatively better power supply as comparing OC vs OC the 8350 will consume 2-3x more power.

Don't know where you got this idea that you can only get an OC of 4.3GHz on Ivy Bridge because most people OCing have them running at 4.4-4.6GHz. It does have higher temperatures, but as long as it doesn't go above ~85C in Intel Burn Test you'll be fine. Average overclocks for Piledriver and Ivy Bridge are pretty much the same.

Since you're starting from scratch I recommend you do the investment and get the 3770K. You don't need an expensive motherboard to overclock it, and what you'll be running takes a significant advantage of Hyper-Threading.
 
Last edited:

guskline

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2006
5,338
476
126
nks, I'll run the benchmarks on my rig tonight - at least 6 hrs from now but Listen to BrightCandle, IdontCare and LOL_Wut_Axel. They know what they are talking about. No matter how much extra you throw at the 8350 (best mb, best cooling, etc. it's highly unlikely it will beat the 3770k on this app. At best it will tie it AND you've spent so many $$$ you would have been smarter to get the 3770k from the get go. Personally I already had 2 2500k rigs with excellent MBs that I can up to 3770k if I want to spend the $$. I had invested in the Asus Sabertooth 990FX in hopes that the 8150 would shine and initially bought a 1100T in anticipation. I then bought the 8150 due to a fabulous sale price. I then upped to a 8350 when it came out due to it's grerat price. Had no real interest in the 8150 (except those who wanted it for free) so I waited till the Gigabyte 990FX UD3 went on a super sale and built a rig around it.

You can tell on this forum, that some of the posters (myself included) really get into building new machines and updating frequently. Don't assume that we always buy the fastest or newest parts. We can be more selective as we have more machines.

I'm not rich but have a good job that allows me to have this hobby (don't golf-that can be expensive!).

If this is your only rig, go with the 3770k even though the initial $$ is somewhat higher. You will be happy.
 
Last edited:

guskline

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2006
5,338
476
126
nks, with my 8350 OC to 4.6 Ghz I rendered the scene in 317 seconds, exactly what IDC had projected. To me that's the top OC I feel comfortable with. A 3770k at 4.3 Ghz will render it 55 seconds quicker. From what I read, 4.3 Ghz is a mild OC with the 3770k.
 
Last edited:

nks

Member
Jan 8, 2013
31
0
0
finally purchased i7 3770k with msi mpower z77 mobo

thanks to all for helping me.
and special thanks to "Idontcare"