Performance and energy efficient desktop for office

[dsm42]

I'm looking for a desktop computer for heavy home/office use and would appreciate any advice on how to configure and where to get it from. I typically have many apps running with dozens if not hundreds of windows and tabs open and my current desktop computer slows to a crawl and/or apps crash

My current desktop is an E6850 Core 2 Duo CPU, 3G RAM, 240G RAID 1 HDs(160 used), 30" monitor w/2560x1600 res and NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GS, w/Windows XP.

What I'm looking for with respect to performance is:

*To be able to have many apps running and over a hundred windows/tabs open and the computer not significantly slow down

*For apps to open very quickly (Outlook (w/several Gig of messages stored) and Firefox currently seem to take minutes to open and I'd like it to take seconds).

*For files and emails to be indexed, searched and opened very quickly (I have 100,000's of files and msgs, with new ones arriving all the time, that I often need to do searches over).

*For the computer to go in and out of standby and hibernate modes very quickly and easily

*For video performance, to potentially be able to handle another monitor if I add one in the future (in addition to 2560x1600 monitor I have now) and be able to do things like video editing smoothly. I don't play games however, and it wouldn't be worth it to me to pay lots in terms of $'s or energy usage for video performance that would only be applicable to gaming...

*Extremely stable (rarely slowing or crashing) with high data security (e.g. minimize chances of losing data if HD dies).


With respect to energy efficiency:

*The system should have as efficient a power supply as possible

*The system should use minimal power in standby mode (<1W ideally)

*The system should use minimal power during operation (<100W ideally)

*The system should be very quiet and release minimal heat into the room

*The system should meet the highest Energy Star requirements, and ideally, EPEAT Gold or higher


Budget

*I'm willing to pay a bit for significant gains in performance and/or energy efficiency, but would like to keep the overall system <$2000.


Configuration questions

*Would an i5 processor w/built-in graphics be more than sufficient to meet my performance requests, or if not, which processor/GPU combo would be sufficient while minimizing cost and energy consumption?

*Would 6-8G RAM be more than sufficient

*How helpful would it be to have a high performance SSD boot drive, and which ones should I consider (current usage on my boot drive is 44.1G w/XP)

*Is it possible for the secondary data/media storage drives to be in a RAID 1 configuration for data security?? Which should I consider for those?

*Is it worth it to get a Blu-ray burner these days, and if so which? (I'd use for burning HD video from my Tivo, and for data/media archiving)


Finally what manufacturers would you recommend I consider for a custom-built system along these lines??

Thanks much for any and all advice,
Dave.

 

[darkewaffle]

Finally what manufacturers would you recommend I consider for a custom-built system along these lines??

Do you mean to put the parts together yourself?

As far as for your needs, I'd probably go with an Athlon II x4 processor (There are some lower and equivalent power usage Core 2 Quads/i5/i7s, but also much more expensive).

If you're really doing heavy multitasking, you may be able to justify the need for 8GB of RAM but you'll also need a 64bit OS to take advantage of it. So you probably will want to move to Win7 if you take that route.

For your load times, I think you would be very pleased with SSD performance. It will make Outlook and Firefox much more responsive, provided you put them on the SSD of course.

For your GPU/display I'd say you should look into Eyefinity; if that's appealing to you (for multi monitor usage) then consider a low end Radeon 5xxx card. If not, then I would still say you should use some sort of discrete card since many integrated GPUs don't even have the physical connections for multi monitor. But for just office/desktop usage, the card doesn't need to be anything more than basic.

Yes, you can configure your drives in a raid for data security. That's more or less the whole point of RAID 1. The drives to pick will depend on how big/fast/quiet/cool you want them to be, and what your priorities are. 1TB, probably looking at a WD Caviar Black(fast)/Green(slower, cool, low power) or Samsung Spinpoint F3(balanced). 2TB probably considering Caviar Green or Spinpoint F2.

Blu ray it's really up to you. A burner isn't exorbitantly expensive anymore and the price of the media is slowly declining. But it depends how much you're backing up and whether you need that on top of the RAID or not.

And get a seasonic x-650 PSU

 

[mfenn]

The i5's graphics would likely be fine, but the only i5's with integrated graphics are dual-cores, which don't mesh well with your extreme multitasking. I would say to go with an i5 750 or 760 because they are Nehalem-based and thus very power efficient.

8GB should be sufficient, although you would want to get 4GB DIMMs so that you can easily expand.

An SSD would be a great help. Something like an Intel X25-M would be great.

You can easily set up a RAID1 array with pretty much any motherboard. A pair of 1TB Samsung F3s would do nicely.

I would not bother with a Blu-ray burner, as you can archive to HDDs for a similar cost per GB and with much less hassle.

Here's a build:
i5 760 $210
GA-P55A-UD3 $140
2x G.Skill DDR3 1333 4GB 2x$105=$210
Radeon 5450 $40 - passively-cooled, can use an HDMI->DVI adapter for 2nd monitor
Intel X25-M 80GB $225
2x Samsung F3 1TB 2x$75=$150
Seasonic 350W $44 - overkill on wattage, but very efficient
Antec P183 $155 - pricey but very quiet, you can always go cheaper on this
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit $100
Total: $1274

EDIT: D'oh ninjaed by waffle. I'll throw in an OS and a total to make up for it

 

[RebateMonger]

Note that dual 30-inch LCD monitors will be burning more power than your PC. If you are looking for low power consumption, you might want to pay attention to the monitors. The place you'd have the most effect on power consumption would be the monitors and the video card.

 

[dsm42]

Thanks for the reply. I'm looking for a custom PC manufacturer to put the system together and support it, and would appreciate any recommendations for where to go...

And, yes, I was planning on 64-bit W7. Re: RAID, I just wasn't sure if one could have a single boot drive, and then two secondary drives in a RAID 1 configuration. Re: Blu ray, I figure one could never have enough backups when data security is critical...

 

[dsm42]

mfenn: Thanks much for the config - very helpful. The Radeon 5450 seems to have gotten bad reviews at Newegg - do you have experience with it? And re: Blu-ray, my thought was I could use it for putting HD video on discs for a Blu-ray player connected to the TV, and for data storage/archiving where I could send the discs offsite....

RebateMonger: I'm currently avoiding getting a 2nd monitor for that reason. As it is, I got the most efficient one I could find, and put it on standby or shut it off whenever I'm not actively using it. I just want the option of getting a 2nd monitor in the future if my work demands it...

 

[Firsttime]

I agree with mfenn's build mostly. The only thing I would change is I would swap the i5 out with an i7 870. Power consumption is essentially the same as the i5, but you get the added bonus of getting 8 threads which can help a lot if any of the programs you're using are multi threaded.

Edited to change 860 to 870 since they are the same price.

 

[mfenn]

mfenn: Thanks much for the config - very helpful. The Radeon 5450 seems to have gotten bad reviews at Newegg - do you have experience with it? And re: Blu-ray, my thought was I could use it for putting HD video on discs for a Blu-ray player connected to the TV, and for data storage/archiving where I could send the discs offsite....

RebateMonger: I'm currently avoiding getting a 2nd monitor for that reason. As it is, I got the most efficient one I could find, and put it on standby or shut it off whenever I'm not actively using it. I just want the option of getting a 2nd monitor in the future if my work demands it...

RE: the 5450, it looks like Newegg may have gotten a bad batch of cards. I chose the XFX because they have great customer service when things go wrong. For the data archiving, you might want to look at Amazon's AWS import/export. Basically, you fill up a disk, ship it to them, they put it into your S3 account (automatically replicated) and ship your disk back to you. You can access all of your S3 data online. Pretty slick server IMHO.

 

[dsm42]

That's interesting re: AWS.

Any suggestions out there for a good company to build and support this system?? (FYI, I'm in the Boston area, so folks around here or at least in the EST timezone would be a bit preferred)

 

[darkewaffle]

I don't know of any large scale operations that function like that; at least not with that degree of customization. There's probably local places that will do it, but I don't think they'd offer the security and support you're looking for.

 

[mfenn]

That's interesting re: AWS.

Any suggestions out there for a good company to build and support this system?? (FYI, I'm in the Boston area, so folks around here or at least in the EST timezone would be a bit preferred)

I dunno about that. I always build my own so I couldn't tell you who is good or not with a pre-built.

 

[Firsttime]

You would probably have the best luck getting a very customized rig from a smaller place. I would look for a well established local store and see if they will do that for you.

It's easy enough to build on your own if you want also. A computer is pretty much like putting a 10 piece puzzle together. It isn't hard at all.

 

[dsm42]

The last time I put together a computer on my own was probably ~1995, and I recall it took me most of a full day before I got everything working right including OS, drivers, etc. With not enough time for work and family as it is, since then, I've ordered them pre-configured...

Including learning curve and any problems or mistakes I might make, how much time would it take these days? And what would I do if something doesn't work as expected?

 

[mfenn]

The last time I put together a computer on my own was probably ~1995, and I recall it took me most of a full day before I got everything working right including OS, drivers, etc. With not enough time for work and family as it is, since then, I've ordered them pre-configured...

Including learning curve and any problems or mistakes I might make, how much time would it take these days? And what would I do if something doesn't work as expected?

I would say maybe 2 hours to assemble the hardware if you're very methodical and careful. I give this estimate because somebody who's experienced can slap one together in about 30 minutes and 4 seemed like a conservative factor. :awe: You should be fine since you've done it before and thus should have a vague idea of how to put one together.

As for the software, loading Windows 7 and installing all of the critical drivers probably takes 30 minutes on a fast machine. After that, it's just the same installing apps and what have you that you would have to do on a Dell anyway.

If you run into problems, either ask here or do what the pros do, Google. (Seriously, I'm a sysadmin and half of this job is knowing how to find shit out).

 

[Firsttime]

If you're loading Windows 7 on it drivers are a breeze, you may have to find one or two, everything will come with the drivers they do need on CD's anyway. I think the last PC I built here in January took about 3 hours. Half of that time I was doing something else though as Windows installed.

The hardest part in my opinion is plugging the stupid case things (power, reset switches) into the motherboard. I have fat fingers haha. I would say if you could set aside an afternoon you could do it. Or I bet if you ordered the parts and took it to a local PC shop they could put it together for a fee if your schedule really is that slammed. I'm not sure about support though.

Edit: Shit, Mfenn beat me this time lol.

 

[dsm42]

Here's where I could use some real expertise.

The place I'm trying to get a custom system from made a number of different recommendations, and here are my questions:

*They say the i7-930 costs less than the i7-870. But I'm worried it will consume more power than I want, esp. w/the other components it would require. (Another place goes in the other direction and suggests the i3-i5 w/integrated graphics.) Which should I get taking both performance and energy efficiency into account?

*They suggested I get a CPU cooler. Do I need this??

*For i7-870, they suggested the GA-P55-UD4P vs. the UD3P - does this matter?

*They suggested an Intel network card for ~$50 that they say will increase network performance by ~30%, is this true and advisable?

*They suggest the Crucial 128G RealSSD over the 80G Intel X25. Is that a better choice given the capacity increase with no increase in price?

*They suggest the WD RE3 HDs (they don't have the Samsung F3s). Are the RE3's a good choice for me, or is there another better alternative?

*They only have the Seasonic S12 or X750(which seems to be more wattage than I should need). Which should I choose?

*They're suggesting Crucial or Mushkin RAM. And either way, 2x4GB is ~$100 more expensive then 4x2GB. Assuming I don't think I'll upgrade above 8GB soon, which should I get?

*Does it matter if I get 500M vs. 1G on the Radeon 5450?


Thanks much!
Dave.

 

[dsm42]

Here's a good argument for the i5 w/integrated graphics:

I have an 870 and a 650 here at my desk. I’ve been using the 650 for the past month to get a good feel for what going back to a modern day dual core would be like. To be honest, I don’t see much of a difference. I do a lot of multi-tasking and always have InDesign, Photoshop, Outlook, and dozens of browser windows open at once. I’m always listening to music during the day as well.

The 870 is a 45nm 95W part. The 32nm i3/i5 parts are 73W with integrated graphics activated (the 661 is 78W but that’s because it has a high-clocked GPU core).

You don’t need discrete graphics and quad cores to get a good multitasking experience. Buy a fast SSD, get lots of system memory, and if you’re worried about performance, go for the top performing i5-670 @ 3.46GHz/3.73GHz Turbo Core – it’s still 73W TDP.

Thoughts?

 

[mfenn]

Here's where I could use some real expertise.

The place I'm trying to get a custom system from made a number of different recommendations, and here are my questions:

*They say the i7-930 costs less than the i7-870. But I'm worried it will consume more power than I want, esp. w/the other components it would require. (Another place goes in the other direction and suggests the i3-i5 w/integrated graphics.) Which should I get taking both performance and energy efficiency into account?

*They suggested I get a CPU cooler. Do I need this??

*For i7-870, they suggested the GA-P55-UD4P vs. the UD3P - does this matter?

*They suggested an Intel network card for ~$50 that they say will increase network performance by ~30&#37;, is this true and advisable?

*They suggest the Crucial 128G RealSSD over the 80G Intel X25. Is that a better choice given the capacity increase with no increase in price?

*They suggest the WD RE3 HDs (they don't have the Samsung F3s). Are the RE3's a good choice for me, or is there another better alternative?

*They only have the Seasonic S12 or X750(which seems to be more wattage than I should need). Which should I choose?

*They're suggesting Crucial or Mushkin RAM. And either way, 2x4GB is ~$100 more expensive then 4x2GB. Assuming I don't think I'll upgrade above 8GB soon, which should I get?

*Does it matter if I get 500M vs. 1G on the Radeon 5450?


Thanks much!
Dave.

IMHO, they are full of shit and trying to rip you off, especially the bolded. Best to find another place.

EDIT: All of that stuff is good, but a complete waste of money for what you're doing.

EDIT2: Re: the 1366 i7, 1156 i7, or 1156 i5, see below.

EDIT3: Man these guys are terrible, lol. A 750W PSU, even a gold rated one is going to have crap efficiency for the system you're building because you will be well below 20% load on a 750W PSU. Why is 20% load important? That's the minimum load level tested for 80PLUS certification and PSU's efficiencies drop off like crazy below that point. Best to get a PSU that is well matched to the build, even if it's theoretical peak efficiency is less.

EDIT4: Regarding the memory prices, can't they go look on Newegg? I mean seriously, 2x4 and 4x2 DDR3 1333 are practically the same price!

 

[mfenn]

Here's a good argument for the i5 w/integrated graphics:


Thoughts?

Terrible argument when you consider that the 870 is cheaper than the 670 and the 870 offers much better multitasking performance (especially in the extreme situations that you're talking about, the other guy is NOT comparable to what you're trying to do). Also, good luck finding a mobo that will 2 30" panels with the IGP.

EDIT: Also note that I recommended the 760 which is the about the same price as the 650 mention but has more cores. Essential for you for the reasons mentioned above.

 

[RebateMonger]

Here's a good argument for the i5 w/integrated graphics:

Earlier this year I attended an Intel seminar for partners and the speaker, a very senior technical person at Intel, had lots of good things to say about the i5 integrated graphics. He's usually pretty straightforward about stuff (he'll tell you not to bother with an i7 over an i5 unless you just HAVE to have the best, cost be damned).

 

[theevilsharpie]

If you're looking for a computer that is stable, quiet, secure, and power-efficient, parts aimed at enthusiasts probably aren't going to get you there.

Look at the business desktop lineup of companies like Dell, HP, IBM, etc. These companies have a solid lineup of computers built specifically for people with your needs.

For a specific suggestion, take a look at the HP Compaq 8100 Minitower or the HP Z400 workstation.

 

[dsm42]

Sounds like there's a difference of opinion on the i7 vs. i5 - not sure what I'll do...

Re: PSU, how's the Antec 380 Watt EarthWatts EA-380D Green ATX Power Supply

Re: HDs, I assume the bolding means that you think the RE3 is a rip-off? If I can't get the Samsung F3, what are good options as far as energy efficiency and performance?

Re: SSD, I assume the lack of bolding means that the Crucial 128G and Intel 80G are really about equiv, and it's just a matter of picking capacity vs. slightly better performance??

Thanks,
Dave.

 

[dsm42]

The prob with Dell, HP, etc., is that it's very expensive or impossible to get a system with an SSD boot drive and a couple of secondary drives in RAID 1 configuration, which I think makes the most sense. Also, something like the Radeon 5450 suggested here seems perfect for my needs (if I go with i7), yet is not available through those companies. And adding memory is very expensive as well (they don't let you get no/minimal memory so you could buy elsewhere)....

 

[theevilsharpie]

The prob with Dell, HP, etc., is that it's very expensive or impossible to get a system with an SSD boot drive and a couple of secondary drives in RAID 1 configuration, which I think makes the most sense. Also, something like the Radeon 5450 suggested here seems perfect for my needs (if I go with i7), yet is not available through those companies. And adding memory is very expensive as well (they don't let you get no/minimal memory so you could buy elsewhere)....

So get a base system and add any third-party parts that you need.

 

[mfenn]

Sounds like there's a difference of opinion on the i7 vs. i5 - not sure what I'll do...

Re: PSU, how's the Antec 380 Watt EarthWatts EA-380D Green ATX Power Supply

Re: HDs, I assume the bolding means that you think the RE3 is a rip-off? If I can't get the Samsung F3, what are good options as far as energy efficiency and performance?

Re: SSD, I assume the lack of bolding means that the Crucial 128G and Intel 80G are really about equiv, and it's just a matter of picking capacity vs. slightly better performance??

Thanks,
Dave.

The Earthwatts is fine and would be more than sufficient.

The RE3 is twice as much as the F3 for the same capacity and performance, so yeah I'd say it is a rip-off. You CAN get the F3, just not from those shmucks. BTW, the only reason the RE3 is that high is because WD intentionally cripples the Caviar Black's firmware by disabling TLER.

You are correct on the Crucial vs. x25-m, though I would personally never buy one because of the extreme shady way they've handled their firmware issues.