Perfect electrical conduction

[sao123]

new idea... instead of piping electric to everyone house and heating from electric
... lets turn the idea around
why dont we heat it and generate electricity in the house with the same source?

 

[silicon demon]

that sounds feasible to me, f95toli.

however, the cost (and money is the prime mover in all infrastructure equations) of providing nitrogen-cooled cabling precludes its widesperead use...to the extent that it may only even be heard of in arcane computer-geek threads. :laugh:

only a room-temperature superconductor would provide the fiduciary potential to abandon copper and aluminum. in fact, silver is a better conductor that both metals; but it's the financial aspect that makes the prospect of producing silver wires seem very silly. (why is Gold often electroplated over contacts--for example, in audio applications--if silver is more conductive? Answer: silver is more prone to oxidation.)

i did say that this was my area of expertise; but not to start a debate....but simply because i deal with power generation on a daily basis.

Yeh, all of these elements are relative, but my answers were given because i wanted to provide simplified, clear and concise answers to SagaLore....the person who started this thread. i hope i succeeded.

 

[iwantanewcomputer]

Despite the rising cost of natural gas, there are still power plants in the US that burn natural gas(probably used sparingly now) It is much more expensive to burn it at a power plant, convert it to electicity through a steam turbing (only something like 75% efficient, depending on temperature), transmit it across power lines, and use it to heat a house, where it is 100% efficient.

 

[BrownTown]

around where i live its used alot for peaking power even though electricity is only like 6 cents a kWH. Of course they lose money on it, but i guess its better to run natural gas turbines a few hours a day a few weeks a year at a loss then to have to build more expensive coal plants and have them sitting idle all the time. Natural gas plants are cheap to build, so i guess it costs less to maintain them then it does to maintain a coal plant, so therefore if most of the time your not even gonna use the plant its better to have it be cheap to keep in operation for the few times you do need it.

 

[f95toli]

Originally posted by: silicon demon

however, the cost (and money is the prime mover in all infrastructure equations) of providing nitrogen-cooled cabling precludes its widesperead use...to the extent that it may only even be heard of in arcane computer-geek threads. :laugh:

I am not so sure a superconducting is always more expensive. The colling is done using closed cycle systems (cryocoolers) which have been used commercially in other areas for a few years (telecom, e.g. superconducing filters in base stations and various power applications, such as synchronous condensers) and require very little maintanance (every few years or so). As far as I understand the cable itself is already actually cheaper than a copper cable with the same current carrying capability.
I agree than it is not very likely that it will be used over long distances (unless you can piggyback it on something else, e.g a liquid hydrogen pipeline) but there are certainly cases where a superconducting cable is cost efficient.

About a year ago a big Japanese cable company (I think the name is Sumatomi) started making superconducting cables and as far as I can tell they intend to market it as a commercial product, i.e. it is not a research program (I was at a conference a few months ago and they where already showing several products, not only cables but also ship engines).

 

[Mark R]

why dont we heat it and generate electricity in the house with the same source?

This is gradually being done more and more.

The problem is that electricity infrastructure is already there - connect a generator the grid and connect your customers to the grid and the electricity will flow (it's more complicated than that, obviously, but the delivery mechanism is already there)

If you want to transfer heat, you need to get big pipes which carry hot water from the power plant to the customers and cold water back again. Installing and maintaining buried insulated pipes is expensive and time consuming.

However, this concept of 'combined heat and power' is starting to take off, because of potentially large cost savings by using the waste heat.

On a small scale, you can natural gas furnaces, that are actually generators, and the waste heat from the generator is used for heating - these can be installed in place of a normal furnace. Essentially, you get 'free' heat when the generator is switched on. (These aren't partiuclarly popular yet, because the stirling generator mechanisms are extremely expensive, and not particularly reliable).

On a larger scale, places like hospitals have started installing systems like this - instead of using a gas boiler and a diesel backup generator - some have now installed gas-turbine generators which run 24/7 - cheap heat, cheap electricity and a backup power source, all in one.

On a larger scale, there are a number of municipal power plants, where the heat is piped to several thousand homes in the near vicinity. In some cases, these power plants are powered by refuse - in an attempt to be even more 'green'.