Pepper spray / Mace
- Thread starter rh71
- Start date
<< Is pepper spray the same as mace ? If not, what's better? >>
Doesn't matter. Either one will down your target in seconds.
Have you ever seen the stuff in action? It sizzles on pavement.
pyonir
Lifer
- Dec 18, 2001
- 40,856
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taken from this site and in the state of California:
<< State law makes it illegal to use pepper spray without a license. >>
check your state laws and local laws to make sure you can carry it. you can buy it a lot of places and that is considered for home use. your state might require a permit to carry.
<< State law makes it illegal to use pepper spray without a license. >>
check your state laws and local laws to make sure you can carry it. you can buy it a lot of places and that is considered for home use. your state might require a permit to carry.
Bah. Go to like Big5 or sportmart and buy animal mace. I don't think you need a permit to use that. 
If you can't get pepper spray in your state you "shouldn't" put some blair's 5 am into a watergun. That wouldn't be responsible.
<< Is pepper spray the same as mace ? If not, what's better? >>
There are three basic chemical compounds used in self defense sprays:
· CS (Orthoclorobenzalmalonitrile)
· CN (Alphachloroacetaphenone)
· OC or Pepper (Oleoresin Capsicum)
OC is the newest of the three, by far the most effective, and the best one you should consider for self defense use. Pepper spray effects everyone differently but it is by far the most effective
Pepper Spray Effects
CS and CN are irritants to membrane tissues. They cause stinging pain and te aring, and take from 5 to 30 seconds to be effective. In cases of persons who are drunk, on drugs, suffering a psychotic episode, or otherwise cannot feel pain, there may be no effect at all, For years the field experiences of police officers has been riddled with accounts of total failure of CN and CS products when used as a self defense spray.
There is no basic difference between mace and pepper spray as Mace is a brand name, not a type.
That being said, there are different mediums to expel the agent. Foggers, streamers, pellets, grenades, and foams. Now pellets and grenades are out of your reach (for the most part), but the other three are commonly available if legal in your state. More information to follow at the end.
<< you have to have a permit for mace. i'm not sure about pepper spray >>
All legal situations like this are on a state by state, city by city basis. Rules vary nationwide. If you don't know how to proceed getting info, PM me and I'll be happy to provide the appropriate statutes, or at least links to where you should continue your search.
<< Either one will down your target in seconds. >>
BS. Everyone reacts differently to all chemical agents. While strong OC is widely effective, it is not absolute. Many people are not affected at all, while others have minimul reaction, and some are allergic in a manor that causes death should they be sprayed (very rare btw). Some people are immune to them all, some are only immune to one or two types...it totally varies. Overall stong OC (10% or better if allowed by law) is the MOST effective, but don't rely on it totally. No tool will ever replace your brain for effectiveness in combat.
<< It sizzles on pavement. >>
Not that I've ever seen. Maybe the pavement was hot, or the propellent reacted, but it's mostly inert. In fact, when it was originally pure pepper extract in the sprays, many law enforcement people used to season their food with it.
Having said ALL THAT, I'll give you my advice (2 yrs military, 8-10 yrs security, 2-3 yrs assiting (residing/working) leo's).
1. Make absolutely CERTAIN that you are WILLING to use it. If you aren't sure you can spray someone, knowing it may cause their death or have no effect and get them mad enough to kill you, then you have no business carrying.
2. Get training. Take a law enforcement sponsored, or professional course in the use of chemical sprays. Not only will it train you to use it properly, it will teach you when NOT to use it, which, in our age of civil liability, may be even more important.
3. Use your mind first. It's far better to not need the spray, than to know how to use it. Your mind is your greatest weapon.
4. Take additional training. Chem sprays are something, but they aren't everything. Know how to fight unarmed, learn additional weapons (a gun if you're comfortable and legal), take street safety courses. Safety isn't as easy as everyone thinks, trust me.
My own experience with chemical weapons is to learn the laws first. Then go with a very strong oc foam (at least mk iii, or mk iv size) if it is legal for you. Here's an example. In all my exposure it's the only type that affects me to any degree, and it has the fewest downsides. Definately get training in the proper use of whatever you end up with, or it'll be more of a liability than an asset. Spraying yourself won't help you out much
/Hope that helps somewhat, feel free to PM if you have any other questions.
Nocturnal
Lifer
- Jan 8, 2002
- 18,927
- 0
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oh lol
anyways, pspray hurts like a dickens.
to the above post ive carried pepper spray for a while now, maybe two years. ive only had to use it once. maybe some dumb fscks will need "training" but i mean if you use your common sense youll be able to handle.
what is the percentage of people being immue to the pepper spray? is it a high % rate? or like a very low one? cuz ive seen people go down... ive never once seen someone get sprayed and just laugh it off like it was nothing.
anyways, pspray hurts like a dickens.
to the above post ive carried pepper spray for a while now, maybe two years. ive only had to use it once. maybe some dumb fscks will need "training" but i mean if you use your common sense youll be able to handle.
what is the percentage of people being immue to the pepper spray? is it a high % rate? or like a very low one? cuz ive seen people go down... ive never once seen someone get sprayed and just laugh it off like it was nothing.
If you want pepper spray, carry no less than Fox Labs.
Heres some info to consider
1. pepper spray is at best effective on 90% of the population, 10% is completely immune and there is no concrete info on what % is resistent to it
2. % pepper only measures duration, effectiveness is measured in shu, Fox Labs is the strongest at 2% 5.3million +uv stain, will put them down for~40min
3. mace/pepper spray/oc is basically just peppers, there is no magic knock down ingredient in there, you're basically spraying concentrated tabasco sauce
4. there is a several second delay before someone feels the effects, when you see people fall down immediately on tv its because its TV not real life
5. unless you get them in the eyes, any pepper spray is worthless, even if you're successful, a calm individual can still force their eyes open, they do not swell shut for everyone, despite what they may claim the burning sensation on the skin is little more than a sunburn and it doesn't significantly affect breathing ability, aim for the eyes if possible
6. if you're going to carry, its important to first test it on yourself to a) rule out allergies and 2) if there is any wind, you will get hit also,
7. invest in decontamination wipes, they will reduce your down time significatnly, just a warning a hot shower too soon afterwards will hurt 10x worse than getting sprayed
Highly recommend the 2oz Fox Labs 5.3shu medium fog spray with the new flip top safety cap-very important. If you get their older designs, make sure you buy a holster. In particular, stay away from their key chain units, their safety mechanism is an accident waiting to happen. As a general rule, the generic stuff they sell at walmart, frys, etc is junk. I'm a big supporter of women carrying pepper spray but check into your local laws first, this is a police grade spray and there may to laws against it in some states. If you need a source that sells to civillians pm,
Heres some info to consider
1. pepper spray is at best effective on 90% of the population, 10% is completely immune and there is no concrete info on what % is resistent to it
2. % pepper only measures duration, effectiveness is measured in shu, Fox Labs is the strongest at 2% 5.3million +uv stain, will put them down for~40min
3. mace/pepper spray/oc is basically just peppers, there is no magic knock down ingredient in there, you're basically spraying concentrated tabasco sauce
4. there is a several second delay before someone feels the effects, when you see people fall down immediately on tv its because its TV not real life
5. unless you get them in the eyes, any pepper spray is worthless, even if you're successful, a calm individual can still force their eyes open, they do not swell shut for everyone, despite what they may claim the burning sensation on the skin is little more than a sunburn and it doesn't significantly affect breathing ability, aim for the eyes if possible
6. if you're going to carry, its important to first test it on yourself to a) rule out allergies and 2) if there is any wind, you will get hit also,
7. invest in decontamination wipes, they will reduce your down time significatnly, just a warning a hot shower too soon afterwards will hurt 10x worse than getting sprayed
Highly recommend the 2oz Fox Labs 5.3shu medium fog spray with the new flip top safety cap-very important. If you get their older designs, make sure you buy a holster. In particular, stay away from their key chain units, their safety mechanism is an accident waiting to happen. As a general rule, the generic stuff they sell at walmart, frys, etc is junk. I'm a big supporter of women carrying pepper spray but check into your local laws first, this is a police grade spray and there may to laws against it in some states. If you need a source that sells to civillians pm,
<< maybe some dumb fscks will need "training" but i mean if you use your common sense youll be able to handle. >>
I completely disagree. There are three factors in using any weapon/defensive techniques: physical, mental, legal.
Mental is up to you and you alone. Only you can decide if you can use it, and only you know if you can push a button
. No one can teach you those things. However, the mental attitude, state of awareness necessary to make carrying chem agent useful CAN be taught. And it should be. A prepared mind is worth all the weapons you'll ever see.Physical isn't too hard, but it does take practice. You should test it on yourself to prepare for what it's like. You also need to know how it works to know what to do as, and after, you spray. How long till effectiveness, how long will it last, what's the spray pattern, etc. Also, how do you hold the spray in different areas/scenerios. How you do a building search (if you're doing a building search with oc instead of a gun you probably deserve whatever happens actually, but...) compared to how you use in a parking lot. What about hand placement for backspray shielding? Retention during struggle? Avoiding being hit if it's taken away? How do you carry it? Do you practice drawing it? No, there is a LOT of physical training involved. Just because someone gets lucky doesn't make it right.
Most important in our society (america) is the legal aspects. It sucks, but it's true. When can you draw, when can you use, do you have to warn, what's the liability, what about onlookers, etc, etc, etc. There are so many ins and outs to defense now that you almost have to be a lawyer to consider defending yourself on the streets. One of my biggest peeves actually.
So, there are MANY reasons to seek professional training. Again, the mind is far more potent than the spray.
Nocturnal
Lifer
- Jan 8, 2002
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- 0
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i wasnt talking about using it for law enforcement use. i meant every day civilian use. i wont ever be searching any kind of buildings or anything like that.
like i said, ive already had to use it once, and it worked fine for me. stopped the person in his tracks. thats all that matters to me.
like i said, ive already had to use it once, and it worked fine for me. stopped the person in his tracks. thats all that matters to me.
<< i wasnt talking about using it for law enforcement use. i meant every day civilian use. i wont ever be searching any kind of buildings or anything like that. >>
Really? Ummm, how about coming home and getting the feeling something just isn't right? That's a building search, unless you choose to wait outside and call the police (which is not necessarily a bad idea). Any indoor use is what I meant, it has different dynamics and tactics than outdoor use. Just like it's different in crowds than when you're alone. It isn't that vital to most people, UNTIL they have a problem, and then they wanna sue everybody because they weren't willing to train properly in the first place. It happens all over and it irritates me. I'm glad you haven't had any trouble, but the reasons I state are accurate, universal, and should really be considered.
As to why I'm not a cop, because cops enforce laws, not justice. I could NEVER allow a child rapist to live. Wouldn't happen. I'd show up at an active call, see it, and put 2 or 3 in his head. Justice served. Unfortunately that's the end of my career (and likely my freedom). So I made the decision not to place myself in those kinds of situations, where I'd be forced to help losers. I won't do it. I WANT bad people to die, and I won't risk myself for their benefit. Same reason I'm not a lawyer.
Besides, Seattle sucks.
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
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<<
As to why I'm not a cop, because cops enforce laws, not justice. I could NEVER allow a child rapist to live. Wouldn't happen. I'd show up at an active call, see it, and put 2 or 3 in his head. Justice served. Unfortunately that's the end of my career (and likely my freedom). So I made the decision not to place myself in those kinds of situations, where I'd be forced to help losers. I won't do it. I WANT bad people to die, and I won't risk myself for their benefit. Same reason I'm not a lawyer.
Besides, Seattle sucks.
>>Have we lost it here? I think so.
Weapon rules are so varied and change so quickly it's nearly impossible to keep up.
Here's a good resource: Click Me.
It deal mainly with knives but has good information overall.
And here's an example of how all the laws look when written and used together: Click Me.
So, in short, you can't carry anything that could be a weapon most of the time, and when you yourself reach a certain level of hand-to-hand skill, you yourself become a weapon and surrender most of your constitutional rights. This is a sad, sad place to be when it comes to self-defense, although it's better than many other places I suppose. Still almost makes me cry to think of how much we've surrendered.
Here's a good resource: Click Me.
It deal mainly with knives but has good information overall.
And here's an example of how all the laws look when written and used together: Click Me.
So, in short, you can't carry anything that could be a weapon most of the time, and when you yourself reach a certain level of hand-to-hand skill, you yourself become a weapon and surrender most of your constitutional rights. This is a sad, sad place to be when it comes to self-defense, although it's better than many other places I suppose. Still almost makes me cry to think of how much we've surrendered.
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