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People who web design, where did you learn?

fuzzybabybunny

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
I'm curious... for those people who design websites and know a lot of stuff like HTML, CSS, PHP, ASP, javascript, flash, database integration with websites, MySQL, Joobla, etc., where did you learn?

I don't recall my school having a "Web Design" major, just a Computer Science major, and that was focused more on programming, like Java, C++, etc.

I'm regretting not having been more serious and focused on web design while I was in college. I'm coming to the realization that it's a seriously valuable skill when paired with my photography... Hell, it's a seriously valuable skill just by itself. Photography just by itself is not nearly as lucrative as photography paired with web design. With photography I'll always just be selling photos. With web design skills and photography I can be selling complete SOLUTIONS.

And now I'm trying to figure it all out on my own and it's a tad overwhelming. I have all these ideas of what I want my website to do but just don't know how to do it... garrr... frustrating and daunting at the same time. And I feel that what I've already learned is just a little bit of that and a little bit of this. It's really lacking any kind of structure.

What's the most accelerated way of learning to do full featured websites with a lot of the major technologies?
 
Self-taught. Most classes syllabus' contain outdated material, software since the professors can't really keep up with the rapid ever evolving web. I recommend

http://www.opera.com/company/education/curriculum/ - opera has tutorials, articles ( and a browser ).. opera's and webkit's developers are right on the edge of the innovation of web/web standards implementation followed by the folks at Mozilla... and then IE
http://www.w3.org/ - official specification of html/css/etc
http://htmlhelp.com - redux of the html spec, in a somewhat more readable format

Avoid w3schools, tizag and other mediocre sites that many people will mention as some of the code ( if not all ) is outdated; outdated practices, etc.
 
Web designers usually start from one of two schools:

Print/graphic designers who not only think about the branding, look, visual impact but will also go down into things like typography, and even matching the images used match the colour scheme.

Coders who understand the structure of the website and can build a solid and logical foundation.

From there they usually progress towards the other skill, and if they get anywhere near the middle they're capable of producing striking websites with very clean code. I myself am a qualified software engineer, and even though I still do a majority of back end design/database/codings I have progressed towards the design side by picking up skills in using photoshop, thinking of what a user does, typography etc. I do did all this learning on the job per say and learning from what the designers do in return for tutoring them in the technical side.

Picking up skills is a learning experience where you have to just mess around with it yourself. Yes there is alot of frustration as it's a case of constantly picking up a new skill to add to your set, ie css, ajax, jquery/mootools etc but before you know it you have a nice broad range of skills. You will sometimes get things wrong, and that is worthwhile experience to pick up, why was it wrong, what can you do to make sure it's better next time etc. I certainly didn't learn each thing I know by reading a website and thinking yup I know this, you have to go and practise it. For each of those skills you mention there are plenty of tutorials around and it's a case of picking one at a time and playing with it. Keep your learning simple and concentrate on a base range of skills first.

x/html -> You'll probably know this by now
css -> go to Zen Garden, mezzoblue.com etc and see what they do, look at the resources and try a few out.
PHP/ASP -> Pick one side and learn it before venturing to the other.
Javascript -> Quickly scan over the DOM model so you understand how it works but skip straight to a library like jQuery, Mootools, prototype etc as this is where it gets useful.
 
Hmmm... so my "learning" is actually considered to be on the right path? That certainly makes me feel better. Although I have to ask, would it be bad to take a structured class? I'm relating this to photography: sure, you can be a great photographer by just messing around with the camera and figuring stuff out, and in so doing you can keep up to date with the latest techniques, etc. BUT I feel that I'm still missing out on the "classical" teachings of photography that can only really be learned in school - things like the Zone System, classic composition elements and strategic ways to frame the shot so as to lead the viewer's eye, certain ways of thinking about a shot, etc. Sure, I can crank out some good stuff, but this stuff is made through simple raw talent and zeal. I think I could be even better if I could have a structure or a foundation to further bolster what I already have.

Maybe the same structured foundation in web design would be a plus?
 
learn programming only if ur free or bored in life, it totally ruins time

previously i got 85% in my 9th n 92% in my 8th then in 10th i learn programmin .. then my grades started to slip i hardly got a 75% in 11th it was even worst i only got 65% dunno what will happen this year

i hate programming for the sake of that ... i advice all the people of my age (16~17) dont touch the Fkin pc it ruins ur time which can not be regained if once lost
 
Originally posted by: ganesh1
learn programming only if ur free or bored in life, it totally ruins time

previously i got 85% in my 9th n 92% in my 8th then in 10th i learn programmin .. then my grades started to slip i hardly got a 75% in 11th it was even worst i only got 65% dunno what will happen this year

i hate programming for the sake of that ... i advice all the people of my age (16~17) dont touch the Fkin pc it ruins ur time which can not be regained if once lost
Click to expand...

Programming is more productive than just sitting there watching TV. It's a skill you can actually use later in life. Just because you hate it and were not very good as it doesn't make it bad for the rest. I picked up basic web design and HTML in the mid 90s at 12-13 and moved on from there. It has helped me better as a person career-wise now.


Web programming was self-taught, since not many college offer it. I don't have the graphical skills for the actual design. It's something I picked up on my own to advance my own interests (PC/Video gaming) productively.

I'm a CS/CE grad student and never learned much or any web programming, except plain old desktop (C/C++/Java/etc.). They sometimes offer classes like rich internet apps/web programming/web technology.
 
i came from a background in programming and a background in art
i ended up merging the two, but then i lost interest in the actual web design process and stuck with programming (until i got interested in SEO and online marketing)

i still program for fun, but i dread having to actually design and layout a site.
 
oh, and all my web skills are self taught. i had programming and art classes in school, but never had a class for html or css or javascript or php or anything.
 
Originally posted by: invidia
Originally posted by: ganesh1
learn programming only if ur free or bored in life, it totally ruins time

previously i got 85% in my 9th n 92% in my 8th then in 10th i learn programmin .. then my grades started to slip i hardly got a 75% in 11th it was even worst i only got 65% dunno what will happen this year

i hate programming for the sake of that ... i advice all the people of my age (16~17) dont touch the Fkin pc it ruins ur time which can not be regained if once lost
Click to expand...

Programming is more productive than just sitting there watching TV. It's a skill you can actually use later in life. Just because you hate it and were not very good as it doesn't make it bad for the rest. I picked up basic web design and HTML in the mid 90s at 12-13 and moved on from there. It has helped me better as a person career-wise now.


Web programming was self-taught, since not many college offer it. I don't have the graphical skills for the actual design. It's something I picked up on my own to advance my own interests (PC/Video gaming) productively.

I'm a CS/CE grad student and never learned much or any web programming, except plain old desktop (C/C++/Java/etc.). They sometimes offer classes like rich internet apps/web programming/web technology.
Click to expand...

iam good at programming ... all i want to say is it ruins ur time ......... (its too interesting)

yeah my skills are self taught too. almost everyone learns these on there own

 
I'm a web developer at an ad agency. My first year of college was as a computer science major, my last 3 years were as an advertising major. It all worked out.
 
I learned basic html at a after school computer course I went to. It was more or less of a course for beginner PC users which covered a bit of html. From that point I learned the rest on my own. This was when I got my first pc.
 
Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunnyI'm regretting not having been more serious and focused on web design while I was in college. I'm coming to the realization that it's a seriously valuable skill when paired with my photography... Hell, it's a seriously valuable skill just by itself. Photography just by itself is not nearly as lucrative as photography paired with web design. With photography I'll always just be selling photos. With web design skills and photography I can be selling complete SOLUTIONS.

And now I'm trying to figure it all out on my own and it's a tad overwhelming. I have all these ideas of what I want my website to do but just don't know how to do it... garrr... frustrating and daunting at the same time. And I feel that what I've already learned is just a little bit of that and a little bit of this. It's really lacking any kind of structure.

What's the most accelerated way of learning to do full featured websites with a lot of the major technologies?
Click to expand...

in the 1998 time-frame, a large industrial design company named Ideo
hired some graphic design company in SF to do a website showing their
portfolio. It was very cool, used Javascript. I studied their "row span,
col span" and made a small nav bar using animated GIF's, with a tepee
for "home", loved it.

anyway, after going some of the DIY approach i took a web design class
at San Diego State (happened to be in the Education school). then took
2 flash classes recently, at a junior college.

i don't know what schools are easy to apply to in the San Jose area.
maybe SJ state, maybe De Anza, maybe an extension of Berkeley or USF,
who knows.

online resources
http://www.gotoandlearn.com/
... cool Flash & Flex stuff

http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/videotraining/
"Flex in a Week" - Flex is an XML editor, plus some. XML is sort of like
HTML, does more stuff. if you can get through just the first day of the
Adobe flex training, that class is to build a search code snippet for the
Flickr API, so you can type in a word and it will create a web page with
images of whatever word you typed in. plus, filtered somehow to make
it SFW.

http://www.lynda.com/home/ViewCourses.aspx?lpk0=267
Flash courses at Lynda.com
 
Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
Although I have to ask, would it be bad to take a structured class? I'm relating this to photography: sure, you can be a great photographer by just messing around with the camera and figuring stuff out, and in so doing you can keep up to date with the latest techniques, etc. BUT I feel that I'm still missing out on the "classical" teachings of photography that can only really be learned in school
Click to expand...

Almost all of what you're able to learn is out there, free (or at minimal book cost) for the taking. You might wonder why it's free, and I believe at least partially because it's difficult. You have to take time to read, process, and understand the information being presented.

Often times formal "classes" take the approach that 50% or more of the students are going to need to be spoon fed the info. This means if you're serious about wanting to learn the materials and info will be much too slow/simplified, and won't do you any good. On the other hand if you're more comfortable being spoon fed you probably don't care enough to really learn anything being presented either.

Just my $0.02
 
I think a nicer way to put what SJP0tato is saying is that if you take a class, you're not going to learn the really special stuff...because the people implementing really special stuff aren't teaching classes frequently.
 
Originally posted by: Tegeril
I think a nicer way to put what SJP0tato is saying is that if you take a class, you're not going to learn the really special stuff...because the people implementing really special stuff aren't teaching classes frequently.
Click to expand...

my main issue right now isn't really so much learning the really special stuff, it's learning it in an organized manner. "figuring stuff out" on my own is very much like a puzzle with a million pieces in a random pile. lots of wasted time just trial and error seeing what works and what doesn't. A class will still be a puzzle, but all the pieces will at least be in order.
 
It can't hurt, my experience built up from the mid 90s so I have a very solid foundation from which to add all the new stuff on top of. So it's possible that a class may be pretty good to help you with a foundation, but the right book might be able to do the same if you are dedicated to it. The question is, what exactly do you want to learn? I can make some good recommendations.
 
Try looking at classes your local community colleges offer, they often focus less on theory and more hands on, and more web programming classes.
 
To be honest most of what you learn once you've learnt the basics comes from a natural progression with work. This industry evolves so rapidly you have to be able to adapt very quickly and pick up the things that will be relevant in your day to day job as you go along. A lot of this comes from books, lots of books.

I've taken a couple of courses in my spare time between jobs too but to be honest I haven't found a course that's been as beneficial as just learning what you need from the massive amounts of information available to you from whatever source you choose (good developer blogs, books, developer conferences etc).
 
Oh I can't stress how important it is to learn the fundamentals first. I don't give a shit how good a developer you think you are, if you can't understand the basics of semantic markup (POSH) etc. then you shouldn't be in web development.
 
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