people who skip vaccinations are incredibly selfish

[JimKiler]

Where exactly did I lose my cool:



Which sentence(s)?

Personally, I think that's just your way of dodging the piles of evidence that suggest your stance is an absurd one. Over the last 4 - 5 pages, you've tried to play the role of "concerned citizen" while burying your head in the sand. When someone gets short with you after catering to your lack of common sense, you cry foul.

Instead of constantly trying to play victim, how about you restate your position in the face of all of this "new" information? And don't give me this "I just want to see each case explored" nonsense.

Your requests for facts, evidence, and statistics have been fulfilled in abundance. It's time for you to respond to it. Directly.

When you use the word horseshit, i perceived you losing your cool.

Before i respond please clarify how my stance is perceived? I am not sure how what everyone responding to me thinks i believe.

 

[AdamK47]

The people that continue to argue in this thread are incredibly selfish.

 

[zinfamous]

don't lose your cool this is simply an internet thread.

I don't think so, actually.

These "simple internet threads" accumulating for a few decades now, leading to user forums of like-minded individuals, acting as echo chambers where ideas and opinions feed upon themselves in a self-aggrandizing circle of ignorance, have created activist groups that would never have before been possible.

Before, fringe groups would have been isolated within the local areas where they lived, with maybe a handful of people that share their ideas, but no real numbers to spark an actual movement.

Sometimes, this can be considered a good thing. Other times, when such ideas become ruinous or even dangerous to society: such as white supremacist hate groups, Islamic extremists, and anti-vaccine whackadoos, these ideas and these people suddenly pose a real threat to humanity. They now have strength in numbers, the confidence that their ideas are always right, simply because they only need a minimum threshold of numbers where, in their collective ego, the sheer weight of a shared idea is validation that it is correct.

These communities create a black hole for new, conflicting information. The mass of a single, egregiously incorrect idea is too great to allow any counter argument to penetrate, and then escape with a revised idea.

All because of "simple internet threads."

 

[JimKiler]

The people that continue to argue in this thread are incredibly selfish.

Our threads would not reach multiple pages if we said nice things to each others, but nonetheless you are are a nice guys Adam!

 

[Bob the Coder]

When you use the word horseshit, i perceived you losing your cool.

LOL... okay, buddy 😉 You must be a very, very sensitive individual. When I see horseshit, I call it as such.

Before i respond please clarify how my stance is perceived? I am not sure how what everyone responding to me thinks i believe.

Horseshit (oops). Get on with it FFS. You don't need to know what people think in order to state what you believe unless you're just worried about being caught in a corner. Just say it and quit beating around the bush.

Is asking what your position is such an outrageous, unreasonable request? You're an undecided voter, aren't you?

 

[JimKiler]

LOL... okay, buddy 😉 You must be a very, very sensitive individual. When I see horseshit, I call it as such.



Horseshit (oops). Get on with it FFS. You don't need to know what people think in order to state what you believe unless you're just worried about being caught in a corner. Just say it and quit beating around the bush.

Is asking what your position is such an outrageous, unreasonable request? You're an undecided voter, aren't you?

I was curious because i don' think what you and other believe my stance is match my stance. But i have stated my stance on vaccines in this thread, so what exactly do you want to know, do i believe vaccines are safe? Is that the stance you want to know? Please clarify so i cannot prevent annoying you further.

 

[Phoenix86]

Before i respond please clarify how my stance is perceived?

Obtuse.

 

[Bob the Coder]

Yet another stall 🙄

I was curious because i don' think what you and other believe my stance is match my stance.

That's why I asked what your actual beliefs are, but you can't seem to be bothered to just come out with it.

But i have stated my stance on vaccines in this thread

Well whatever you do, don't quote yourself and make your opinions readily available. That would be far too easy, wouldn't it?

Why are you so afraid to put yourself out there? You know my position beyond a shadow of a doubt. I'm happy to lay it out for you in whatever level of detail you or anyone else desires. As a rational adult, I prefer that my opinion - when I have one - is clearly understood by others, and I wish for the opportunity to clarify any ambiguities.

You, on the other hand, would prefer to protect your ego by closely guarding your actual position and, instead, prefer to pour substantial effort in calling out people who allegedly misrepresent your position. After all, it's easier to just sit back and tell people they don't "get you" than it is to defend a concretely stated position.

So stop deflecting every time your feelings get hurt or people use language you deem too harsh for your delicate ears, and quit being a pussy when it comes to putting yourself out there.

I'm going to make this really easy for you:

1. What are your ideas on the matter of routine vaccinations?
2. Whatever those beliefs are, why do you hold them?
3. What evidence, personal experiences, etc. has moulded those beliefs?
4. Why do I have to provide you with a list of absurdly simple and obvious questions to help guide you?

 

[IronWing]

Before i respond please clarify how my stance is perceived? I am not sure how what everyone responding to me thinks i believe.

I've been trying to reel in my forum cussing but the above is horseshit.

 

[JimKiler]

Yet another stall 🙄



That's why I asked what your actual beliefs are, but you can't seem to be bothered to just come out with it.



Well whatever you do, don't quote yourself and make your opinions readily available. That would be far too easy, wouldn't it?

Why are you so afraid to put yourself out there? You know my position beyond a shadow of a doubt. I'm happy to lay it out for you in whatever level of detail you or anyone else desires. As a rational adult, I prefer that my opinion - when I have one - is clearly understood by others, and I wish for the opportunity to clarify any ambiguities.

You, on the other hand, would prefer to protect your ego by closely guarding your actual position and, instead, prefer to pour substantial effort in calling out people who allegedly misrepresent your position. After all, it's easier to just sit back and tell people they don't "get you" than it is to defend a concretely stated position.

So stop deflecting every time your feelings get hurt or people use language you deem too harsh for your delicate ears, and quit being a pussy when it comes to putting yourself out there.

I'm going to make this really easy for you:

1. What are your ideas on the matter of routine vaccinations?
2. Whatever those beliefs are, why do you hold them?
3. What evidence, personal experiences, etc. has moulded those beliefs?
4. Why do I have to provide you with a list of absurdly simple and obvious questions to help guide you?

Why do you think i am stalling?

 

[JimKiler]

Yet another stall 🙄



That's why I asked what your actual beliefs are, but you can't seem to be bothered to just come out with it.



Well whatever you do, don't quote yourself and make your opinions readily available. That would be far too easy, wouldn't it?

Why are you so afraid to put yourself out there? You know my position beyond a shadow of a doubt. I'm happy to lay it out for you in whatever level of detail you or anyone else desires. As a rational adult, I prefer that my opinion - when I have one - is clearly understood by others, and I wish for the opportunity to clarify any ambiguities.

You, on the other hand, would prefer to protect your ego by closely guarding your actual position and, instead, prefer to pour substantial effort in calling out people who allegedly misrepresent your position. After all, it's easier to just sit back and tell people they don't "get you" than it is to defend a concretely stated position.

So stop deflecting every time your feelings get hurt or people use language you deem too harsh for your delicate ears, and quit being a pussy when it comes to putting yourself out there.

I'm going to make this really easy for you:

1. What are your ideas on the matter of routine vaccinations?
2. Whatever those beliefs are, why do you hold them?
3. What evidence, personal experiences, etc. has moulded those beliefs?
4. Why do I have to provide you with a list of absurdly simple and obvious questions to help guide you?

1. although alluded to in my first post on page 9 or 10 i never explicitly stated it: i am pro vaccine and always have been.
2. same as everyone else, benefits outweight the risks, and even if the chance was 1 in a 1000 of autism i would still vaccinate my kids.
3. i have yet to read most to info you guys provided but what i have read so far is interesting.
4. i was not sure if you wanted my stance of vaccines in general or wanted to know my stance on researching all the claims of autism.

i never stalled, but what did you think my position was?

 

[Bob the Coder]

Why do you think i am stalling?

I already said why... you just quoted it, son:

it's easier to just sit back and tell people they don't "get you" than it is to defend a concretely stated position.

Now on to this:

1. although alluded to in my first post on page 9 or 10 i never explicitly stated it:

versus this:

But i have stated my stance on vaccines in this thread

Make up your mind. You can't keep your own thoughts straight, yet everyone else is supposed to be up to speed on what you "alluded to" 10 pages ago?

i have yet to read most to info you guys provided

No shit. One of several reasons, I'm sure, as to why you've been so cagey.

i was not sure if you wanted my stance of vaccines in general or wanted to know my stance on researching all the claims of autism.

They go pretty well hand in hand. And here's a thought: if you're unsure, go the extra inch and cover both. Why make it so fucking hard? Or are you just trolling?

i never stalled, but what did you think my position was?

Yes, you did. I didn't know what your position was, it's why I was asking. Why is that so hard to grasp? Dude, there are pages of people telling you that you're being obtuse and illogical. Consider that.

 

[JimKiler]

I already said why... you just quoted it, son:



Now on to this:



versus this:



Make up your mind. You can't keep your own thoughts straight, yet everyone else is supposed to be up to speed on what you "alluded to" 10 pages ago?



No shit. One of several reasons, I'm sure, as to why you've been so cagey.



They go pretty well hand in hand. And here's a thought: if you're unsure, go the extra inch and cover both. Why make it so fucking hard? Or are you just trolling?



Yes, you did. I didn't know what your position was, it's why I was asking. Why is that so hard to grasp? Dude, there are pages of people telling you that you're being obtuse and illogical. Consider that.

just because i wanted to confirm what you wanted to know does not mean I was stalling. Nor did i ever intend to be cagey, i was simply trying to think outside the box and come up with some data that i was curious about and also think about how to overcome the issue of correcting people's incorrect beliefs about autism while also acknowledging that science can change. (I am guessing this last sentence will mean i am being vague again.)

 

[Bob the Coder]

just because i wanted to confirm what you wanted to know does not mean I was stalling.

Nonsense. In the time it takes for that kind of back and forth, you could have laid out your ideas numerous times. You were stalling, plain and simple. It's not like you were asked to outline your career plan, but weren't sure if you were being asked for the 5, 10, or 15 year version. I just wanted your damn stance on vaccinations. You're making this all far too difficult.

i was simply trying to think outside the box and come up with some data that i was curious about and also think about how to overcome the issue of correcting people's incorrect beliefs about autism while also acknowledging that science can change. (I am guessing this last sentence will mean i am being vague again.)

No one disputed that science can't change. You've been told this several times, in fact. You're not being vague, you're just simply not reading posts.

 

[MetalMat]

This thread is starting to go off the rails

 

[JimKiler]

Nonsense. In the time it takes for that kind of back and forth, you could have laid out your ideas numerous times. You were stalling, plain and simple. It's not like you were asked to outline your career plan, but weren't sure if you were being asked for the 5, 10, or 15 year version. I just wanted your damn stance on vaccinations. You're making this all far too difficult.



No one disputed that science can't change. You've been told this several times, in fact. You're not being vague, you're just simply not reading posts.

If you do not believe me when i said i was not stalling why would you want to know my stance on vaccines since, in your eyes, i am a liar?

 

[Muse]

This thread is starting to go off the rails

I remember a kids illustrated book about a little train that would jump the tracks and just have a good time. Inference was that it wasn't a stupid idea. Different context, yeah.

 

[Muse]

My HMO gives me vaccinations for free. I get every one they'll approve me for.

 

[KMFJD]

 

[cbrunny]

http://news.nationalpost.com/health...-vaxxer-views-as-kids-hit-with-whooping-cough

It was “the kind of cough that stops a parent’s heart,” says Tara Hills, who has seven children and has heard them cough many times before.

Just another cold, she thought at first. But her family’s journey into whooping cough treatment has forced them to re-examine what they believed about vaccination, knowledge and responsibility in a community.

Now the Hills family has gone public with their story, saying it’s important to help others understand the risks of not having vaccinations.

Maybe we should try to give anti-vaxxers Whooping Cough! Anyone work for the CDC? Get on that!

 

[darkswordsman17]

Frontline did a follow up Vaccine War and I was pretty disappointed in it. They gave way too much say by idiots like Jenny McCarthy. I think their aim was to let them show what fools they are, but they did not do a good job of balancing it out. They even ended with a conclusion that basically levied the two sides as being equal. Nevermind that doing best for their kids would be to get them vaccinated.

There's also several other women that are infuriatingly stupid and clearly do not understand vaccines or basic reality even ("I'm ok with my kids getting diseases naturally!").

They did try to offer counterpoints but they did a pretty woeful job of it and explaining why their "I want what's best for my child" was being misguided by their own ignorance. And I think the other issue is they focused a little too much on others when they need to get the point across that the vaccine is the best thing for the kid's health.

I did like that they had one person point out how their arguments are flawed and they just keep changing them when there's overwhelming backlash over their wrong arguments. They really needed to highlight this more. Really they did overall, but they needed to be more pointed in doing so. Let them offer an argument and then have multiple experts provide counterpoints on why it's wrong. Like when the woman says "people don't even get these diseases any more, why are we vaccinating against them?" Point out that is because of the vaccines and that those diseases stay away if we stay vaccinated.

 

[Vdubchaos]

By nature, people are selfish....and they will do selfish things.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

By nature, people are selfish....and they will do selfish things.

Sure, but getting vaccinated doesn't have to be a "selfless" act; it's just another form of self-preservation. I don't get vaccines because I care if you get measles, I get vaccines because I don't want the fucking measles. It's telling that when their own kids end up getting sick, the anti-vaxxer crowd immediately changes their tune. It has nothing to do with selfishness, it's just misinformation and fear.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Sure, but getting vaccinated doesn't have to be a "selfless" act; it's just another form of self-preservation. I don't get vaccines because I care if you get measles, I get vaccines because I don't want the fucking measles. It's telling that when their own kids end up getting sick, the anti-vaxxer crowd immediately changes their tune. It has nothing to do with selfishness, it's just misinformation and fear.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all.

Unfortunately misinformation and fear is what our media drills into our heads all day long.

Of course people are going to act on it.

:|

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

I see these news stories and it blows my mind that people are truly this retarded, then I see posts in AT and it all makes sense. 🙁

KT

People think that organic food doesn't have pesitcides.

People think that GMOs are going to somehow mutate their bodies.

Ya, people are really smart!