Pentium M Question, Intel lovers help me out.

[Hacp]

Just to make a note, it isn't the processor that determines battery life the most, its the platform. Intel's centrino platform is currently superior in battery life. Why? Becaues of crappy video, low voltage DDR2, and Crappy wireless. AMD is down in the battery life department because turions do use a little bit more power, they are limited to DDR(which requires alot more volts), and most of their chipsets on the laptops use the power hungry x300 graphics. That is enough to drain the battery from most laptops.

 

[Zebo]

Before Zebo went off trying to prove Turions were superior

Never did.

Originally posted by: Zebo
Hope you never wanna run a 64 bits OS and the differences in bat life or performance arnt that noticable... I'd prolly buy a turion..even recognizing maybe the PM is better just based on price, features and supporting AMD.

The reviews of Turion laptops I've seen
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1825173,00.asp
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=22987
don't show it to be particularly amazing. The chip itself is able to hang with the P-M, but the platform as a whole isn't as thrifty with battery power, but it's cheaper.

I took a balanced approach with the information I have. Provided laptop links I been looking at and comparisons. About 4 in total. Showing exacyly what I said. Performance Is indescernalbe so is battery life. Only reason to get an M is from a Dell hot deal because usually Turion is cheaper.

VS. Intel Zealots

Turion ain't shiat. Go with the Dothan

Yeah, no point in debating this. Pentium M Dothan is THE laptop chip.

No links, no analysis, no nothing.

 

[imported_g33k]

The Acer looks like its performing pretty well. In contrast to the MSI, battery life is good, even though its using the higher wattage ML version. How can this be explained? The MSI is supposedly using lower wattage parts and yet the Acer has better power consumption.

 

[Zebo]

What chart are you looking at? MSI battery was as big as a hot dog and only 31 Wh. was prolly one of the problems in going for that sleek mini look you don't get much of a battery.

But as far as I can tell the MSI 270 and BEnQ joybook used same amount of power. 1.73ghz vs. 1.8Ghz. The other two centrinos you're into a celeron and a M clocked less than 1.5Ghz. This in general is a poor test.. only showed it for astehtics of the MSI which I find purdy.🙂 All have different video cards...different screens..differnt batts etc. making any sort of caparison about the platform power void.

 

[Socrilles]

On top of this if you want the best performance the xps2/9300 can't be beat w/ the geforce 6800 go or ultra, and not only that these laptops get much better battery life then any AMD notebook I've seen, I've used about 3 AMD laptops from sempron to A64 and battery life was around 1.5 hrs tops with a large battery and the small battery of my friends lasts about 1 hr. Compared to the 4-5 hrs you can get with a P-M and consistent 3 hrs, its foolish to considder an AMD processor.
---------------------
You're an Intel Zealot who will say anything, but you don't really expect anyone to believe Turions get 1/3rd battery life when cnet showed battery life was within 2% of one another? Foolish n00b

what does battery life here have to do with performance? again you are not addressing anything directly, and instead making comments like Intel Zealot and Foolish nOOb, the only derogatory comment I made toward anyone was crazy fanboy. So have you found a reasonable priced AMD turion notebook w/ a geforce 6800 or equivalent video card - didn't think so

If you look at your replies to about everything there is a negative comment in just about every1 which is what fanboys resort to - you are a fanboy look at your sig it is obviously attacking intel -

Your comment about fx's and 3800's outperforming Pentium M also carries no weight, others have already agreed in this thread that clock for clock (NOT OVERCLOCKING) the pentium M outperforms the A64 in gaming.

I might be completely wrong, the turions might get nearly equal battery life, I might be wrong perhaps they are much snappieer and quicker and etc...I am wrong in that you weren't quite as vicious as I originally thought at the start of the thread and will admit that, but I guess I brought the true Zebo out in your responses to my comments they are quite similar to the ones you made in that thread earlier. What I know for sure is that the 9300's and 700m's from Dell are the best desktop replacement and portable notebooks for there price respectively. And no I wasn't referring to Turions I was referring to my own personal experience with AMD laptops I have personally own three, and my friend just recently bought an Acer and they all got 1/3 the battery life of my current 9300.

Heres a link to my post history at Hardforums obviously I am a crazy Intel Zealot who has never used AMD

 

[Zebo]

others have already agreed in this thread that clock for clock (NOT OVERCLOCKING) the pentium M outperforms the A64 in gaming.

So did I. What's your point?

Point besides it's amaturish to compare processors clock for clock? It's the Duron better than a p4? I don't think so even thugh it beats it in every benchmark "clock for clock"
P-M top clock is 2.26, A-64's top Clock is 2.8, P4's top clock is 3.8 - which out performs the others in gaming? Which is the top gaming chip?

 

[clarkey01]

Originally posted by: Zebo

others have already agreed in this thread that clock for clock (NOT OVERCLOCKING) the pentium M outperforms the A64 in gaming.

So did I. What's your point?

Point besides it's amaturish to compare processors clock for clock? It's the Duron better than a p4? I don't think so even thugh it beats it in every benchmark "clock for clock"
P-M top clock is 2.26, A-64's top Clock is 2.8, P4's top clock is 3.8 - which out performs the others in gaming? Which is the top gaming chip?

If the K8 has better headroom then the PM in terms of clock speed, then even if as is claimed by a few ppl that the PM is slightly faster clock for clock it's still lacking in clock speed to match the K8. Then take into account the fact it's not as well rounded as the K8, nor has the feature of to be able to run 64 bit. AMD have 3 Ghz set for Q4 for single cores, I doubt you'll see the PM anywhere near that or ever due to dual cores.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: clarkey01

Originally posted by: Zebo

others have already agreed in this thread that clock for clock (NOT OVERCLOCKING) the pentium M outperforms the A64 in gaming.

So did I. What's your point?

Point besides it's amaturish to compare processors clock for clock? It's the Duron better than a p4? I don't think so even thugh it beats it in every benchmark "clock for clock"
P-M top clock is 2.26, A-64's top Clock is 2.8, P4's top clock is 3.8 - which out performs the others in gaming? Which is the top gaming chip?

If the K8 has better headroom then the PM in terms of clock speed, then even if as is claimed by a few ppl that the PM is slightly faster clock for clock it's still lacking in clock speed to match the K8. Then take into account the fact it's not as well rounded as the K8, nor has the feature of to be able to run 64 bit. AMD have 3 Ghz set for Q4 for single cores, I doubt you'll see the PM anywhere near that or ever due to dual cores.

If we're talking about overclocking on the desktop nothing can touch $120 venice which regularly hit 2.8Ghz air. http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/re...JsX3Jldmlld19JRD0xMjU1JnVybF9wYWdlPTk=

While most sites anandtech/techreport hit 2.5~2.65 with M and they are hella expensive chips starting@$208 for the 1.6M, not to mention $70 adaptor. Motherboard you got to buy for both so that's a wash.

Twice the price for less features and less OC performance, even in games, I don't think so!

 

[imported_g33k]

Originally posted by: Zebo
What chart are you looking at? MSI battery was as big as a hot dog and only 31 Wh. was prolly one of the problems in going for that sleek mini look you don't get much of a battery.

But as far as I can tell the MSI 270 and BEnQ joybook used same amount of power. 1.73ghz vs. 1.8Ghz. The other two centrinos you're into a celeron and a M clocked less than 1.5Ghz. This in general is a poor test.. only showed it for astehtics of the MSI which I find purdy.🙂 All have different video cards...different screens..differnt batts etc. making any sort of caparison about the platform power void.

I was looking at the battery life chart. They have the MSI's extended battery, in the chart but only include the competitor's standard batteries. Comparing standard batteries, the MSI is the worst performer. Again, performing much worse than the more powerful BenQ.

Agreed it is a poor test, they should of at least had 1 system that was similiarly configured and if they include the extended battery, they should also include it amongst the competitors.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: BlingBlingArsch
specs say Turions TDP is 25W and Pentium-m is 27W and so far ive not seen any comparable results proving significantly higher power consumption for the Turion.
and pls dont link to this fake of a review by gamepc.com 😉

btw:lets not forget that there are millions of reviews on P-m laptops...but can u tell from those reviews how much power consumption "the P-m" really has. Same goes for Turion notebooks, some will hold 3hrs, others 3,5hrs, put in a 6800 and u better not be afk for too long.

Another point id like to make is that notebook market is very very slow in implementing "certain components", ask notebook gamers still waiting for X800 mobility notebooks while anandt reviewed them X800 mobility`s back in September 04.
Its the beginning of AMD mobile powered notebooks and after all they came out surprsingly fast regarding they started when...in May this year, and now u can buy like 20-30 models. Though there may be a increasing number of lappys with Turion, most of them are more or less low budget notebooks. Maybe its sometimes a lil far out to discuss the compiling speed of a budget notebook`s CPU becuz who ur gonna impress with a superPi result if the notebook itself is noisy, heavy, has pixel errors...u get the point 🙂.

The difference between turion and centrino is NOT in the CPU alone. While power consumption for the same "speed class" CPUs from Intel and AMD are very similar, power management for the rest of the system is not.

"Centrino mobile technology" does not start and end with banias and dothan.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: Hacp
Just to make a note, it isn't the processor that determines battery life the most, its the platform. Intel's centrino platform is currently superior in battery life. Why? Becaues of crappy video, low voltage DDR2, and Crappy wireless. AMD is down in the battery life department because turions do use a little bit more power, they are limited to DDR(which requires alot more volts), and most of their chipsets on the laptops use the power hungry x300 graphics. That is enough to drain the battery from most laptops.

Eh, there's more to power than just volts buddy, DDR2 could use much higher amps, though I'd guess DDR2 PC4200 and DDR PC3200 are close in power draw.

And I doubt the Radeon Xpress 200M graphics has a high power draw, and most Centrino laptops use an external wireless card anyhow.

BTW, Turion's power management is supposed to be more efficient than P-M's.(basically, it can downclock lower)

Your comment about fx's and 3800's outperforming Pentium M also carries no weight, others have already agreed in this thread that clock for clock (NOT OVERCLOCKING) the pentium M outperforms the A64 in gaming.

How about dollar for dollar?

 

[clarkey01]

Originally posted by: Fox5

Originally posted by: Hacp
Just to make a note, it isn't the processor that determines battery life the most, its the platform. Intel's centrino platform is currently superior in battery life. Why? Becaues of crappy video, low voltage DDR2, and Crappy wireless. AMD is down in the battery life department because turions do use a little bit more power, they are limited to DDR(which requires alot more volts), and most of their chipsets on the laptops use the power hungry x300 graphics. That is enough to drain the battery from most laptops.

Eh, there's more to power than just volts buddy, DDR2 could use much higher amps, though I'd guess DDR2 PC4200 and DDR PC3200 are close in power draw.

And I doubt the Radeon Xpress 200M graphics has a high power draw, and most Centrino laptops use an external wireless card anyhow.

BTW, Turion's power management is supposed to be more efficient than P-M's.(basically, it can downclock lower)

Your comment about fx's and 3800's outperforming Pentium M also carries no weight, others have already agreed in this thread that clock for clock (NOT OVERCLOCKING) the pentium M outperforms the A64 in gaming.

How about dollar for dollar?[/q]

A $120 venice that hits 2.8 Ghz...I dont have to finish that off, it's that clear.

Theres no definative proof that I have seen that shows the pentium M as a clear winner, sure its on par and I have seen some bench's where it wins. But if you bring price and features into it, the chip becomes less and less attractive.

 

[TGS]

Originally posted by: clarkey01


And I doubt the Radeon Xpress 200M graphics has a high power draw, and most Centrino laptops use an external wireless card anyhow.

The centrino platform requires the use of Intel based wifi chips. It can't be classified as a centrino computer otherwise.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: clarkey01

Originally posted by: Fox5

Originally posted by: Hacp
Just to make a note, it isn't the processor that determines battery life the most, its the platform. Intel's centrino platform is currently superior in battery life. Why? Becaues of crappy video, low voltage DDR2, and Crappy wireless. AMD is down in the battery life department because turions do use a little bit more power, they are limited to DDR(which requires alot more volts), and most of their chipsets on the laptops use the power hungry x300 graphics. That is enough to drain the battery from most laptops.

Eh, there's more to power than just volts buddy, DDR2 could use much higher amps, though I'd guess DDR2 PC4200 and DDR PC3200 are close in power draw.

And I doubt the Radeon Xpress 200M graphics has a high power draw, and most Centrino laptops use an external wireless card anyhow.

BTW, Turion's power management is supposed to be more efficient than P-M's.(basically, it can downclock lower)

Your comment about fx's and 3800's outperforming Pentium M also carries no weight, others have already agreed in this thread that clock for clock (NOT OVERCLOCKING) the pentium M outperforms the A64 in gaming.

How about dollar for dollar?[/q]

A $120 venice that hits 2.8 Ghz...I dont have to finish that off, it's that clear.

Theres no definative proof that I have seen that shows the pentium M as a clear winner, sure its on par and I have seen some bench's where it wins. But if you bring price and features into it, the chip becomes less and less attractive.

Why are you guys arguing over a completely moot point.

This thread is about the best laptop for this particular user.

 

[Socrilles]

others have already agreed in this thread that clock for clock (NOT OVERCLOCKING) the pentium M outperforms the A64 in gaming.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



So did I. What's your point?

Point besides it's amaturish to compare processors clock for clock? It's the Duron better than a p4? I don't think so even thugh it beats it in every benchmark "clock for clock"
P-M top clock is 2.26, A-64's top Clock is 2.8, P4's top clock is 3.8 - which out performs the others in gaming? Which is the top gaming chip?


Yah it's quite amateurish to compare clock for clock when processors are running at about the same speeds in laptop which is what this thread is about? Oh wait what is the max speed for a stock Turion right now? and what is the top speed for a stock Pentium M? I'll give you a hint the P-M's top stock speed is 266 mhz faster, so in terms of laptops not only is it appropriate to compare clock for clock, if anything we should be comparing a faster clocked P-M to a slower Turion and why? because Turions need more juice to go faster. Keep coming up with your great relevant comments Zebo. Do any of you really think a venice would be a great laptop chip? are Turions much cheaper then these extremely expensive P-M's. Yah and I would love to see that 3 Ghz AMD chip in a notebook that slated to come out later - All of you AMD zealots stop letting your fanboyism take you on a wild ride a way from the point of this thread. Which pentium M chip should he use. And to answer it simply: if you buy a notebook that supports the 533 fsb P-M's and are adventureous buy the slowest processor you can buy in the notebook if only 533 fsb are available, slap in a P-M 725 available on ebay for around $140ish and pin mod it to 2.13 ghz it will run at that speed at or below stock volts. If you aren't adventureous just buy the best price to performance P-M they all do more than enough for a laptop computer.

 

[BitByBit]

Originally posted by: Socrilles
Without hesitation I would say there would be no difference between snappiness and quickness between an athlon XP and athlon 64, perhaps in gaming performance and superPI but not in snappiness and quickness.

Is this from experience?
You have used both routinely in the past, I assume? Regardless, I think you may be alone in that judgement. I cannot speak from personal experience, because I haven't used an Athlon 64. However, I could refer to the testimony of others regarding the responsiveness of the Athlon 64 platform, as the reviews are all over the internet.
I have already explained why an Athlon 64 should feel as fast and responsive as its users state, and I'm not going to repeat myself.
Your statement merely highlights your unwillingness to accept material that contradicts your own spurious claims, and the fact that it was totally unsubstantiated makes glaringly apparent that you don't understand what it is you're talking about.

Oh wait what is the max speed for a stock Turion right now? and what is the top speed for a stock Pentium M? I'll give you a hint the P-M's top stock speed is 266 mhz faster...

According to this page, the Turion has hit 2.2GHz as the ML-40.
If you can find me a 2.46GHz Pentium M, I will reconsider your claim.

...so in terms of laptops not only is it appropriate to compare clock for clock, if anything we should be comparing a faster clocked P-M to a slower Turion and why? because Turions need more juice to go faster.

Personally, I think we should be comparing a Pentium M to an equally-priced Turion.

All of you AMD zealots stop letting your fanboyism take you on a wild ride a way from the point of this thread. Which pentium M chip should he use.

You are in no position to accuse anyone of zeal. The fact that you imply he shouldn't even consider a Turion suggests to me that you're a fanboy yourself.
That statement alone detracts from the credibility of your entire argument.

Aside from your inability to present facts to substantiate your claims, and your apparent unwillingness to give reasons for your opinions (which sound awfully contrived to me), I think you need to revise the way you respond to other members on these forums. You seem to be a new member, yet you have already adopted a belligerent attitude. Attempting to belittle respected members such as Zebo tells me you lack respect yourself.

You are free to contest the above, but in light of the few posts you have made, I do not believe this forum is for you.

 

[Zebo]

Personally, I think we should be comparing a Pentium M to an equally-priced Turion.

100% correct. Always price/performance. I say if you get a dell hot deal nothing can touch PM. OTOH similarly clocked and equiped turions notebooks are $200-$300 cheaper (like the HP link) Talking in the neighborhood of 15-20% on total laptop price.

Is PM 15-20% faster is anything to justify it's price premium? Not a chance. 2-5% tops in games if you're foolish enough to use a notebook for gaming, while turion wins any compiling or MM. But there are other things to add to performance with laptops. Battery life and features.

A64 has "features" sewen up with 64 bitness and SSE3.

According to CNET review of the two acers, same screen 15.4, same HDD, same video card, Same 1G memory, same 2Ghz, same battery, etc -- the Acer TravelMate 8104WLMi P-M lasted 203 minutes while the Ferrari Turion 197 minutes, or 3% differnce... not 300% as he tried to claim.

Let's review:
Indescerable battery Life
Performance is a give and take, indescerable really over a broad series of benchmarks.
Price may lean turion way, feature lead turion way.

Unless cnet is totally lying I'm starting to think Turion is a better buy even at the same price! (which those two are Acer Ferrari 4000 & Acer TravelMate 8104WLMi)

Edit more info from a real user who has experiance w/ both.. nice pics.

As for the CPU I'm just going by the benchmarks that I've done compared to ones that I have seen for the Pentium-M. A 2GHz pentium-M seems to slightly outperform the Turion during gaming and certain benchmarks. The Turion performed better during some intensive application tests. As for real world performance, I am guessing that the difference isn't noticeable.

 

[Zebo]

"Centrino mobile technology" does not start and end with banias and dothan.

Neither does "AMD Turion 64 Mobile Technology" start and end with Lancaster and Newark.

 

[Zebo]

LOL Thier argue the same crap here
http://www.notebookforums.com/showthread.php?t=92683

Until someone like anand does a couple real notebook reviews I guess we're left with looking at desktop boards with mobile chips and synthetics from places like cnets:roll:

 

[Fox5]

It's hard enough to find a laptop with what you want, let alone one with what you want while being picky about the cpu.

For someone who just wants a notebook, Turion is a good choice. For someone who wants a power-work oriented notebook, Turion is a good choice. For someone with special needs, it's likely you can't find a turion in what you want. You won't find an ultra light turion right now, you won't find a tablet turion, and you won't find an ultra high end gaming turion. For that matter, if you need to do 3d rendering on a notebook, I'm really not sure if a Turion or Centrino based notebook would be better if both are using consumer cards(Turion is probably better at it, but the Centrino is likely to have more powerful cards available), but you won't find any Turions with workstation graphics cards.

I'm very impressed with the lower prices of the Turion notebooks combined with the better integrated graphics and generally feature set(firewire!), I thought the days were AMD competed mostly on price alone were over but apparently they're not.

 

[Intelia]

Buy the cheapest Dothan @ 533 FBS

 

[Intelia]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Hope you never wanna run a 64 bits OS and the differences in bat life or performance arnt that noticable... I'd prolly buy a turion..even recognizing maybe the PM is better just based on price, features and supporting AMD.

The reviews of Turion laptops I've seen
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1825173,00.asp
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=22987
don't show it to be particularly amazing. The chip itself is able to hang with the P-M, but the platform as a whole isn't as thrifty with battery power, but it's cheaper.

Zebo stay out of this ! Clarky has read it all he was asking about PM not AMD and we have all heard the 64 bit thing for 2 years it doesn't mean jack SH##t and you know it.

Intel guys stay out of this Its a bait trap. Let clarky buy what ever he wants . He is fully aware of the available information thats out their. If he wants 64 bit its AmD. Thats all there is to it.

Zebo you can turion all you want . Facts are PM is better does that hurt you .

************************************************************************

To be hopeful in bad times is not just foolishly romantic. It is based on the fact that human history is a history not only of cruelty, but also of compassion, sacrifice, courage, kindness? And if we do act, in however small a way, we don?t have to wait for some grand utopian future. The future is an infinite succession of presents, and to live now as we think human beings should live, in defiance of all that is bad around us, is itself a marvelous victory". Howard Zinn
****************************************************************
Master Zinn and his wisdom

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: Intelia

Originally posted by: Zebo
Hope you never wanna run a 64 bits OS and the differences in bat life or performance arnt that noticable... I'd prolly buy a turion..even recognizing maybe the PM is better just based on price, features and supporting AMD.

The reviews of Turion laptops I've seen
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1825173,00.asp
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=22987
don't show it to be particularly amazing. The chip itself is able to hang with the P-M, but the platform as a whole isn't as thrifty with battery power, but it's cheaper.

Zebo stay out of this ! Clarky has read it all he was asking about PM not AMD and we have all heard the 64 bit thing for 2 years it doesn't mean jack SH##t and you know it.

Intel guys stay out of this Its a bait trap. Let clarky buy what ever he wants . He is fully aware of the available information thats out their. If he wants 64 bit its AmD. Thats all there is to it.

Zebo you can turion all you want . Facts are PM is better does that hurt you .

************************************************************************

To be hopeful in bad times is not just foolishly romantic. It is based on the fact that human history is a history not only of cruelty, but also of compassion, sacrifice, courage, kindness? And if we do act, in however small a way, we don?t have to wait for some grand utopian future. The future is an infinite succession of presents, and to live now as we think human beings should live, in defiance of all that is bad around us, is itself a marvelous victory". Howard Zinn
****************************************************************
Master Zinn and his wisdom

You are truely a nutcase.

 

[Intelia]

And all you have to offer anyone is insults.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: Intelia
And all you have to offer anyone is insults.

I offer pleanty of advice and help. I just find it extremely odd that you're quoting Howard Zinn to support your pro-Intel stance.