Pentium G4400 the new ultimate low cost VM white box CPU?

[mxnerd]

Sure, the CPU is great for a home lab, especially at that price, but what motherboard would you pair it with, to keep it low-cost?

Probably this

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157645

 

[zir_blazer]

well if you do not need what c226 offers you can go for a cheaper chipset and just throw a low end graphic card in the mix and end up saving money

Its ilogical that you save money by having to spend budget on a Video Card JUST to have video output, you already have 50% of the Processor die in GPU. Power consumption would be higher. And maybe you need a bigger Case, too.
Intel needs a budget solution with ECC support + IGP, its ridiculous that it is artificially limited. Sounds more like something legacy from the time that on Sandy Bridge you had the P67 Chipset that didn't had IGP support, and it was worse on Nehalem era, but that was due to technical reasons and not merely stupid market segmentation.

However, usually, C222 and C224 based Motherboards are Server oriented (C226 is Workstation) and have IPMI for Remote Management. IPMI includes a very basic 2D GPU, so on those Motherboards you usually have at least VGA video output without the need of an additional Video Card. However, if you don't need Remote Management, just ECC, its a total waste that you can't use the Processor IGP, plus they don't even have DVI-D so you need either an old Monitor or an adapter of some sort.

 

[ALIVE]

Its ilogical that you save money by having to spend budget on a Video Card JUST to have video output, you already have 50% of the Processor die in GPU. Power consumption would be higher. And maybe you need a bigger Case, too.
Intel needs a budget solution with ECC support + IGP, its ridiculous that it is artificially limited. Sounds more like something legacy from the time that on Sandy Bridge you had the P67 Chipset that didn't had IGP support, and it was worse on Nehalem era, but that was due to technical reasons and not merely stupid market segmentation.

However, usually, C222 and C224 based Motherboards are Server oriented (C226 is Workstation) and have IPMI for Remote Management. IPMI includes a very basic 2D GPU, so on those Motherboards you usually have at least VGA video output without the need of an additional Video Card. However, if you don't need Remote Management, just ECC, its a total waste that you can't use the Processor IGP, plus they don't even have DVI-D so you need either an old Monitor or an adapter of some sort.

i said going to c224 or c222 and you save money from c226 that you could buy the dgpu
intel real makes things a complete nightmare with features and options and some really crazy ones

cheaps chipsets with no igp support wile hight end chipsets with igp support!?!?!?!?!?!?!
an i3 pentium can support a feature that an i5 or i7 will not support

not to mention that you have to pay for an igpu for i7 when you 100% pair it with a dgpu all that dies could be used for something else or not be there at all and be cheaper.

 

[PingSpike]

Its ilogical that you save money by having to spend budget on a Video Card JUST to have video output, you already have 50% of the Processor die in GPU. Power consumption would be higher. And maybe you need a bigger Case, too.
Intel needs a budget solution with ECC support + IGP, its ridiculous that it is artificially limited. Sounds more like something legacy from the time that on Sandy Bridge you had the P67 Chipset that didn't had IGP support, and it was worse on Nehalem era, but that was due to technical reasons and not merely stupid market segmentation.

However, usually, C222 and C224 based Motherboards are Server oriented (C226 is Workstation) and have IPMI for Remote Management. IPMI includes a very basic 2D GPU, so on those Motherboards you usually have at least VGA video output without the need of an additional Video Card. However, if you don't need Remote Management, just ECC, its a total waste that you can't use the Processor IGP, plus they don't even have DVI-D so you need either an old Monitor or an adapter of some sort.

I agree with your sentiments here, its another bit of Intel BS. That's what you get with them though, its been that way for awhile. But I think you're overblowing the cost thing a bit. I'd say the 5450 from powercolor that is available for $10AR is a good pairing. I saw some on ebay yesterday for $15 shipped. They burn like 3 watts idle IIRC, which isn't much but also stinks since as you say since you already have an unused IGP on chip doing nothing but taking up space and power. Or if you have an old PCI card lying around? I'd say the main problem is you lose a slot which might screw you depending upon your motherboard and needs with a vt-d build.

 

[ALIVE]

I agree with your sentiments here, its another bit of Intel BS. That's what you get with them though, its been that way for awhile. But I think you're overblowing the cost thing a bit. I'd say the 5450 from powercolor that is available for $10AR is a good pairing. I saw some on ebay yesterday for $15 shipped. They burn like 3 watts idle IIRC, which isn't much but also stinks since as you say since you already have an unused IGP on chip doing nothing but taking up space and power. Or if you have an old PCI card lying around? I'd say the main problem is you lose a slot which might screw you depending upon your motherboard and needs with a vt-d build.

when intel comes in play the logic has left the ship

you sell almost all your cpus with a igpu but then you sell chipsets that they can not use it!?!?!?!
and when we are talking about the expensive chipsets of the c series. biggest problem forced to use a dgpu i would say the loss of 1 slot not that much of the power draw of the dgpu.

their production line is so strange and bizarre that really makes no sense
depending the feature you really want a cheaper cpu may fit the bill

and then to make things worse is the pairing with the chipset
you have cheap chipsets for cheap builds that do not support the igpu!?!?!?!?
while expensive chipsets for enthusiastic that does but 100% will go dgpu!?!!?

it is as if they run a random generator and give the features lol

 

[TeknoBug]

I wouldn't run VM's on a dual core (well I occasionally do on an i3 but it has 4 threads).

 

[dave_the_nerd]

when intel comes in play the logic has left the ship

you sell almost all your cpus with a igpu but then you sell chipsets that they can not use it!?!?!?!
and when we are talking about the expensive chipsets of the c series. biggest problem forced to use a dgpu i would say the loss of 1 slot not that much of the power draw of the dgpu.

their production line is so strange and bizarre that really makes no sense
depending the feature you really want a cheaper cpu may fit the bill

and then to make things worse is the pairing with the chipset
you have cheap chipsets for cheap builds that do not support the igpu!?!?!?!?
while expensive chipsets for enthusiastic that does but 100% will go dgpu!?!!?

it is as if they run a random generator and give the features lol

No, it's economics, business, and how CPUs are fabricated.

Basically, Intel (and most business) are going to equip their products with the features that cover, say, 75% of use cases. So if you're in the 75%, it meets or exceeds your needs. The rest have to deal. (Number may vary depending on per unit cost, R&D costs, etc.)

Likewise, you're not going to go to the added expense of designing a new product unless you can sell it to a pretty large number of people. Niches are not profitable.

So if 80% of desktop/laptop computers rely on IGPs (they do), then all Intel's desktop processors get IGPs. Don't want one? Too bad. Designing and stocking the no-iGPU chips is an unnecessary added expense.

If 80% of server/workstation chipsets end up in headless environments, IPMI-equipped motherboard, or workstations with discrete GPUs, then Intel isn't going to include it (unnecessary added expense again.)

This is also why Apple stopped equipping computers with DVD drives even though a lot of people weren't quite done with them yet. (Although Apple is generally more aggressive about it, it's the same business logic.)

 

[ALIVE]

No, it's economics, business, and how CPUs are fabricated.

Basically, Intel (and most business) are going to equip their products with the features that cover, say, 75% of use cases. So if you're in the 75%, it meets or exceeds your needs. The rest have to deal. (Number may vary depending on per unit cost, R&D costs, etc.)

Likewise, you're not going to go to the added expense of designing a new product unless you can sell it to a pretty large number of people. Niches are not profitable.

So if 80% of desktop/laptop computers rely on IGPs (they do), then all Intel's desktop processors get IGPs. Don't want one? Too bad. Designing and stocking the no-iGPU chips is an unnecessary added expense.

If 80% of server/workstation chipsets end up in headless environments, IPMI-equipped motherboard, or workstations with discrete GPUs, then Intel isn't going to include it (unnecessary added expense again.)

This is also why Apple stopped equipping computers with DVD drives even though a lot of people weren't quite done with them yet. (Although Apple is generally more aggressive about it, it's the same business logic.)

so it makes real sense to make a cheap chipset for cheap motherboards that does nto support the igp?
and then the most expensive chipset that goes into the most expensive motherboards for enthusiastic to support igp
lol yes it makes sense

their lines are mixed twist and make no sense
i3 ecc support
i5 i7 no ecc support
does that make sense
features seems to be given in random

but now all xeons have igpu but the chipset does not support it
why not give you the options to use the igp??? because it is intel

 

[dave_the_nerd]

so it makes real sense to make a cheap chipset for cheap motherboards that does nto support the igp?

No, it wouldn't make sense to make a cheap chipset that didn't support IGP. People need _some_ kind of video out, and they aren't going to spend $40 on a low end GPU so they can save $10 on a motherboard, for a system that will be running a cash register.

and then the most expensive chipset that goes into the most expensive motherboards for enthusiastic to support igp
lol yes it makes sense

Well, the high end enthusiast chipset (X99) doesn't seem to support IGPs either.

And the C-series chipsets aren't for enthusiasts, they're for servers, which is a far more lucrative market than desktops anyway.

Unless you're thinking the Z170 is the "expensive" chipset. It's really not - it's the mainstream chipset (same silicon as everything else, but with features turned off/on and the OC controls unlocked.) Leaving IGP support enabled costs them nothing, and it gives "enthusiasts" something to boot with if... well, when... their GPU fries.

their lines are mixed twist and make no sense
i3 ecc support
i5 i7 no ecc support
does that make sense
features seems to be given in random

Dualies support ECC for low-end single-socket servers like this one. Or SMB appliances like this. It's actually a pretty big market. Every retail joint I ever worked had at least one of those things running the cash registers. NAS's like that are also pretty ubiquitous now.

i5/i7 don't support ECC, so they don't steal sales from the similarly priced Xeons that do. (Market segmentation.)

but now all xeons have igpu but the chipset does not support it
why not give you the options to use the igp??? because it is intel

Only the 4-core Xeons have IGPs, and it's because they're based on the same quad-core silicon design as the i5/i7s. They also work fine on desktop chipsets (Z-, H-, and Q-series) with IGP support. They are marketed as a workstation solution as well as for low-to-midrange servers.

6-core and up don't have IGPs.

 

[zir_blazer]

Point is, there is no reason why LGA 1150/1155/1151 C-Series Chipset can't support the IGP that is already on the Processor. The Chipsets should be the same silicon, same everything. They're just selling it as a premium Chipset feature on the Server line.
Is ridiculous that you can get a budget Processor with IGP and ECC Support, Unbuffered ECC RAM for not much more than standard Unbuffered, then require the most expensive Chipset to actually use both IGP + ECC. Motherboards that uses C226 for Haswells rivals in price the premium Z87/Z97 segment. You're not going to put a 70 U$D or so Pentium in a 200 U$D Motherboard, right?

Also, about the IGP itself, while it represents 50% or so of the actual die, if you look at Xeons E3 prices, you will see that similar models with and without IGP are just 20 U$D or so, that's what Intel values them at. I think that purchasing a IGP-less 1220V3 when you can have the 1225V3 for just a little more is a rather bad idea, but may make sense if you are going to use it in a C222 or C224 Motherboard since you would not be able to use it anyways.
LGA 2011/2011-R3 is a different matter since there is no IGP there at all.

 

[ALIVE]

No, it wouldn't make sense to make a cheap chipset that didn't support IGP. People need _some_ kind of video out, and they aren't going to spend $40 on a low end GPU so they can save $10 on a motherboard, for a system that will be running a cash register.

Well, the high end enthusiast chipset (X99) doesn't seem to support IGPs either.

And the C-series chipsets aren't for enthusiasts, they're for servers, which is a far more lucrative market than desktops anyway.

Unless you're thinking the Z170 is the "expensive" chipset. It's really not - it's the mainstream chipset (same silicon as everything else, but with features turned off/on and the OC controls unlocked.) Leaving IGP support enabled costs them nothing, and it gives "enthusiasts" something to boot with if... well, when... their GPU fries.

Dualies support ECC for low-end single-socket servers like this one. Or SMB appliances like this. It's actually a pretty big market. Every retail joint I ever worked had at least one of those things running the cash registers. NAS's like that are also pretty ubiquitous now.

i5/i7 don't support ECC, so they don't steal sales from the similarly priced Xeons that do. (Market segmentation.)

Only the 4-core Xeons have IGPs, and it's because they're based on the same quad-core silicon design as the i5/i7s. They also work fine on desktop chipsets (Z-, H-, and Q-series) with IGP support. They are marketed as a workstation solution as well as for low-to-midrange servers.

6-core and up don't have IGPs.

so you agree that intel selling the cheapest chipset with no igp was insane and ridiculous but they did

and here is the fun i3 ecc support go up to i5 no ecc because they are afraid for the e3 xeon sale which would be more true for the i7 not so much for the i5

yes you can run the e3 with normal chipsets because it is th same silicon
but no one is bying a e3 xeon and not have the ability to have ecc so this it is a possible yes but a practical no

so we go to the e3 ground which make sense to get a c chipset and only that and there no igp support in the 2 low chipsets because intel decide this will go to monitorless enviroment thus if you want to drive a monitor
you either have to get a dgpu hmm do you have the slot to spare??
or get the most expensive chipset and more expensive motherboard to use a pathetic igp which you already payed but intel ask even more money from you to use it

Oh yes apple and the cut of compatibility
i do not know if you had people that worked with apple but thats also 1 reason that they get pushed out from the market
yes apple made new products but companies that could bought them did not because of the lack of compatibility
and in the end the companies replaced the macs with pc and get over with the apple i decide what you need policy

this is companies they make money they may have devises or software that needs some compatibility sure they want the new machine to make it faster but if that means also need to change anything else well
long live wintel

if it was not for i pod and now iphone apple was going to be closed

from a computer leading company is transformed to be gadget company
i have friend fanatic in apple well sued to be to much breaking of compatibility turned them all in pc

 

[Insert_Nickname]

You're not going to put a 70 U$D or so Pentium in a 200 U$D Motherboard, right?

Why shouldn't somebody do that? If you need the features the mainboard provides, but don't necessarily need a lot of CPU performance. That is also the beauty of socketed CPUs. You can mix'n'match whatever suits the task at hand.

Its all in the point of view...

 

[cbn]

And even cheaper option for VT-d and AES-NI:

$42 Celeron G3900

http://ark.intel.com/products/90741/Intel-Celeron-Processor-G3900-2M-Cache-2_80-GHz

 

[VirtualLarry]

And even cheaper option for VT-d and AES-NI:

$42 Celeron G3900

http://ark.intel.com/products/90741/Intel-Celeron-Processor-G3900-2M-Cache-2_80-GHz

Not to mention, support for ECC, and 4K display output. Very nice!

 

[Madpacket]

Why you guys so hung up on needing ECC?

 

[deasd]

It would be nice, only if it could be overclocked stable.