I have to shoot RAW+JPEG because my 7D won't zoom in the camera display on a RAW file, which is annoying. So, I have to shoot both to check focus, which costs me about 10-12 shots per 1GB card. I never thought about the Windows Explorer thing though I guess I benefit in that regard as well.
dr150
Diamond Member
- Sep 18, 2003
- 6,570
- 24
- 81
When you're buying a DSLR, it's all about RAW. Otherwise why go with such a bulky machine.
And in this case, the Pentax excels true to form. The fact that JPEGS show up a little soft (per Pentax's conscious decision to maintain detail for better post processing) is irrrelelevant for medium sized prints. For big prints, the RAW takes over as it should for max mileage.
Also the fact that exceptional Pentax lenses can be bought for cheap with this camera is a no brainer, in addition to the keen pricing and features this model has.
All in all, a win.
And fvck Phil and his bias. That guy won't ever review anything not named Canon highly. He'll always SPIN a review Canon's way.
And in this case, the Pentax excels true to form. The fact that JPEGS show up a little soft (per Pentax's conscious decision to maintain detail for better post processing) is irrrelelevant for medium sized prints. For big prints, the RAW takes over as it should for max mileage.
Also the fact that exceptional Pentax lenses can be bought for cheap with this camera is a no brainer, in addition to the keen pricing and features this model has.
All in all, a win.
And fvck Phil and his bias. That guy won't ever review anything not named Canon highly. He'll always SPIN a review Canon's way.
Hmm...lens choice, speed, depth of field, less noise from larger sensor, photographic control, external flashes, bright viewfinders (well, except for the Rebels!), manual focus, frame buffers.
You're right -- I guess RAW is the only reason to choose a DSLR...
Incidentally, you can get RAW on high end P&S cameras so it's not a DSLR exclusive anymore.
Originally posted by: AndrewR
Hmm...lens choice, speed, depth of field, less noise from larger sensor, photographic control, external flashes, bright viewfinders (well, except for the Rebels!), manual focus, frame buffers.
You're right -- I guess RAW is the only reason to choose a DSLR...
Incidentally, you can get RAW on high end P&S cameras so it's not a DSLR exclusive anymore.
altho, canon as pulled raw off the latest G series.
As for cheap lenses... aren't they all MF?
Ok, seriously, in how many circumstances is extremely fast macro focusing important??? Most of my macro work is done with manual focus, not auto.
I agree with virtualgames, the "extensive" lens line-up is a non-issue for most people.
Fine, you want an exclusive lens? NO OTHER lens manufacturer produces a lens like the Minolta and now Sony 135mm f/2.8 STF (Smooth Transition Focus). You want bokeh? There's none better. How about them apples?
Mrvile
Lifer
- Oct 16, 2004
- 14,066
- 1
- 0
Originally posted by: AndrewR
Ok, seriously, in how many circumstances is extremely fast macro focusing important??? Most of my macro work is done with manual focus, not auto.
I agree with virtualgames, the "extensive" lens line-up is a non-issue for most people.
Fine, you want an exclusive lens? NO OTHER lens manufacturer produces a lens like the Minolta and now Sony 135mm f/2.8 STF (Smooth Transition Focus). You want bokeh? There's none better. How about them apples?
Haha I was actually just kidding about the macro lens...I always use manual anyway. The thing is, it just feels a lot better knowing that Canon will have the lens I need when I go to purchase in the future and that Sigma, Tamron, etc. will continue making their best products for Canon. Especially Sigma...who only provides HSM for Canon, Nikon, and Sigma bodies - maybe not necessary for a macro lens, but extremely important for others. Where's the 120-300/2.8 for Pentax mount?
And you want better bokeh than the Sony 135/2.8? Try the 135L. Or better yet, the 85L.
Originally posted by: Mrvile
Originally posted by: AndrewR
Ok, seriously, in how many circumstances is extremely fast macro focusing important??? Most of my macro work is done with manual focus, not auto.
I agree with virtualgames, the "extensive" lens line-up is a non-issue for most people.
Fine, you want an exclusive lens? NO OTHER lens manufacturer produces a lens like the Minolta and now Sony 135mm f/2.8 STF (Smooth Transition Focus). You want bokeh? There's none better. How about them apples?
Haha I was actually just kidding about the macro lens...I always use manual anyway. The thing is, it just feels a lot better knowing that Canon will have the lens I need when I go to purchase in the future and that Sigma, Tamron, etc. will continue making their best products for Canon. Especially Sigma...who only provides HSM for Canon, Nikon, and Sigma bodies - maybe not necessary for a macro lens, but extremely important for others. Where's the 120-300/2.8 for Pentax mount?
And you want better bokeh than the Sony 135/2.8? Try the 135L. Or better yet, the 85L.
I don't know jack about Pentax' lens lineup. Don't own one, probably never will. However, I'll continue on the Sony thing: Compare Canon's 135L and 85L to the new Zeiss 135mm and 85mm available only for the Alpha. And Zeiss is only just getting started!
Maybe someday when I hit it large at Vegas, I'll be able to afford one of these lenses! I'm debating right now on whether or not to bid near $400 for four Minolta lenses (three nice, one so-so) plus a macro ring flash and a light meter. Shhh -- don't tell the wife!
yhelothar
Lifer
- Dec 11, 2002
- 18,409
- 39
- 91
HSM is a tricky situation now for pentax. Their previous cameras did not support in-lens focusing motors. But the new K10D has support for it. The new DA* lenses will be the first lenses with HSM like technology built in. I would expect to see a bunch of new lenses with HSM support in the next year.
But as for a 150mm macro, Sigma has a 180mm one for pentax, and you can get the DFA 100mm, which is 150mm effective with crop.
Not quite, but pretty darn close.
24-90mm F/3.5-4.5 AL IF
It's much cheaper than the Canon as it doesn't have built in IS. But the in camera IS covers that.
Mrvile
Lifer
- Oct 16, 2004
- 14,066
- 1
- 0
Originally posted by: AndrewR
I don't know jack about Pentax' lens lineup. Don't own one, probably never will. However, I'll continue on the Sony thing: Compare Canon's 135L and 85L to the new Zeiss 135mm and 85mm available only for the Alpha. And Zeiss is only just getting started!
Maybe someday when I hit it large at Vegas, I'll be able to afford one of these lenses! I'm debating right now on whether or not to bid near $400 for four Minolta lenses (three nice, one so-so) plus a macro ring flash and a light meter. Shhh -- don't tell the wife!
Don't do it. Better off spending the $400 on one decent lens than four crappy ones (unless they're all old manual focus lenses or a 50/1.8, I guarantee you they're below par). It might sound crude but sadly, for our wallets that is, it's the truth.
Mrvile
Lifer
- Oct 16, 2004
- 14,066
- 1
- 0
Originally posted by: virtualgames0
HSM is a tricky situation now for pentax. Their previous cameras did not support in-lens focusing motors. But the new K10D has support for it. The new DA* lenses will be the first lenses with HSM like technology built in. I would expect to see a bunch of new lenses with HSM support in the next year.
But as for a 150mm macro, Sigma has a 180mm one for pentax, and you can get the DFA 100mm, which is 150mm effective with crop.
Not quite, but pretty darn close.
24-90mm F/3.5-4.5 AL IF
It's much cheaper than the Canon as it doesn't have built in IS. But the in camera IS covers that.
Hardly, I'd much rather have lens IS than body IS. Since they're build directly for the lens, they tend to be much more accurate and easier to use (you can see the IS in the viewfinder). The difference is a bit less for a wider lens like the 24-105, but for a 500 or 600, lens IS is crucial. But either way, my wallet would rather have neither
yhelothar
Lifer
- Dec 11, 2002
- 18,409
- 39
- 91
Originally posted by: Mrvile
Originally posted by: virtualgames0
HSM is a tricky situation now for pentax. Their previous cameras did not support in-lens focusing motors. But the new K10D has support for it. The new DA* lenses will be the first lenses with HSM like technology built in. I would expect to see a bunch of new lenses with HSM support in the next year.
But as for a 150mm macro, Sigma has a 180mm one for pentax, and you can get the DFA 100mm, which is 150mm effective with crop.
Not quite, but pretty darn close.
24-90mm F/3.5-4.5 AL IF
It's much cheaper than the Canon as it doesn't have built in IS. But the in camera IS covers that.
Hardly, I'd much rather have lens IS than body IS. Since they're build directly for the lens, they tend to be much more accurate and easier to use (you can see the IS in the viewfinder). The difference is a bit less for a wider lens like the 24-105, but for a 500 or 600, lens IS is crucial. But either way, my wallet would rather have neither
Lens IS is still better, but not by much, and definitely not worth $500 per lens. I'd take body IS any day. Maybe for a 600mm telephoto, $500 would be worth it for the lens IS.
BTW, since canon has all the lenses, do they have a 10-17mm fisheye?
Do they have a 16-45mm F/4 "L quality" lens for $350?
Mrvile
Lifer
- Oct 16, 2004
- 14,066
- 1
- 0
They don't have the fisheye, but there's a Tokina one due really soon. Again, goes to show the third party support.
Does the Pentax 16-45 have weather sealing? Speedy USM focusing? Compatibility with several full frame to APS-C, full pro to consumer bodies? Buttery smooth L colors and that sharp L flava?
I actually don't know, but the thing is, when it comes to cameras in general, everything is subjective and very dependent on what the individual finds important in a camera or lens. So arguing about this is rather a moot point. Virtualgames you enjoy your Pentax and I'll enjoy my Canon...we're better off just going out and shooting instead of sitting here arguing about our gear.
But while we're on the topic, my camera still pwns your camera.
n7
Elite Member
- Jan 4, 2004
- 21,281
- 4
- 81
21 in a few weeks.
I don't keep in touch with my family much, so maybe she's more into photography more now, but last time i checked up with her, she was more into it casually.
My father has always liked Pentax though, & while upgrading hardware is something he rarely does, when he does, he tends to go all out.
He came into work to get it from me (as i work in retail) & grabbed that, the extra flash, 3x 2 GB high speed SD cards, battery charger, rechargeables, & a USB 2.0 card & card reader.
But here's the kicker.
My family runs a P3 500 MHz 128 MB PC at home
I have tried to explain to my dad that it simply isn't gonna happen, but he's the stubbornist guy i know...
Doesn't really understand technology, & doesn't want to a lot of the time.
So i have offered to build them a PC for Christmas, my gift, but he doesn't want me too lol.
Ah man it's gonna be fun trying to explain why their PC locks up trying to view the new photos from the camera...
I don't keep in touch with my family much, so maybe she's more into photography more now, but last time i checked up with her, she was more into it casually.
My father has always liked Pentax though, & while upgrading hardware is something he rarely does, when he does, he tends to go all out.
He came into work to get it from me (as i work in retail) & grabbed that, the extra flash, 3x 2 GB high speed SD cards, battery charger, rechargeables, & a USB 2.0 card & card reader.
But here's the kicker.
My family runs a P3 500 MHz 128 MB PC at home
I have tried to explain to my dad that it simply isn't gonna happen, but he's the stubbornist guy i know...
Doesn't really understand technology, & doesn't want to a lot of the time.
So i have offered to build them a PC for Christmas, my gift, but he doesn't want me too lol.
Ah man it's gonna be fun trying to explain why their PC locks up trying to view the new photos from the camera...
yhelothar
Lifer
- Dec 11, 2002
- 18,409
- 39
- 91
Fair enough, the 16-45mm doesn't have the weather sealing nor the USM focusing.
But few people need weather sealing, especially considering you need a pro body to even take advantage of it.
The image quality is reputed to be similar. I wouldn't be surprised if the Pentax has better image quality since it's an APS lens.
My point is, Pentax has a much better consumer line. You pay twice the price for the 17-40mm F4L and you don't even get to use a good portion of the lens as it's a FF lens. Pentax, on the other hand, has the 16-45mm custom tailored for non-pros. It's APS cropped, so you end up getting pretty much the same lens for half the price.
Mrvile
Lifer
- Oct 16, 2004
- 14,066
- 1
- 0
Heh well, it's usually pretty safe when the parent(s) know(s) a thing or two about photography, they provide the best direction and knowledge (and oftentimes fanboyship) of the subject IMO. Unfortunately both my parents knew nothing about photography so I sort of tumbled my way into the hobby, but I think I'm making out ok.
And yes, they'll come crying to you when their computer stops working and they want you to fix it
And yes, they'll come crying to you when their computer stops working and they want you to fix it
Mrvile
Lifer
- Oct 16, 2004
- 14,066
- 1
- 0
Well that's the thing. Pentax's new body doesn't quite match up with their lens lineup...
Pentax's K10D is the closest we're going to get to a "pro body" at this price range, and like you said their lens lineup is geared either toward the consumer or toward the super elite, and nothing for us in the middle desiring a little better performance than the average, or even above average, consumer lens, who maybe want to take advantage of the K10D's weather sealing (yes, a lot of us wish we had weather sealing, even those of us who use the more expensive 30D), updated focusing system, etc.
A K10D with Canon's or Nikon's lens lineup would be unstoppable.
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,544
- 924
- 126
Personally, I think that's a negative. I'm looking forward to purchasing a FF Canon DSLR camera in a few years and I'll be able to use my 17-40mm lens on it. Oh, and I can use it on my Elan 7 film camera that I have currently.
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