Pentagon: Guantanamo Detainees Returning to Terrorism

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: winnar111
http://www.foxnews.com/politic...s-returning-terrorism/

WASHINGTON -- Terror suspects who have been held but released from Guantanamo Bay are increasingly returning to the fight against the United States and its allies, the Pentagon said Tuesday.

Sixty-one detainees released from the U.S. Navy base prison in Cuba are believed to have rejoined the fight, said Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell, citing data from December. That's up from 37 as of March 2008, Morrell said.

The new figures come as President-elect Barack Obama prepares to issue an executive order during his first week in office to close the controversial prison. It's unlikely, however, that the Guantanamo detention facility will be closed anytime soon as Obama weighs what to do with the estimated 250 Al Qaeda, Taliban or other foreign fighter suspects still there.

About 520 Guantanamo detainees have been released from custody or transferred to prisons elsewhere in the world.

Morrell said more than 100 detainees have been transferred or otherwise released over the last year alone.

"There clearly are people who are being held at Guantanamo who are still bent on doing harm to America, Americans, and our allies," Morrell told reporters at the Pentagon. "So there will have to be some solution for the likes of them, and that is among the thorny issues that the president-elect and his new team are carefully considering."

Morrell said the new numbers showed a "pretty substantial increase" in detainees returning to terror missions -- from 7 percent to 11 percent.

He said intelligence, photographs and forensic evidence like fingerprints and DNA were used to tie the detainees to terror activity. He did not know where they had been released, or what missions they are now believed to have rejoined.

Human rights activists and defense lawyers for the detainees argue that many Guantanamo prisoners pose no security risk and should be released.




I guess we should let em all out, yeah, so they can start bombing the streets of America. The ACLU and their minions are weakening our stand in the war on terror.

This is one thread in which I might side with the liberals. In the spirit of empathy, let's assume I was a normal guy, falsely incarcerated in a prison without recourse or factual cause.

When/If I was released I'd be pretty freaking pissed off. On the other hand, I wouldn't resort to terrorism.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Let them out in the right wing neo-con neighborhoods around the nation. Shit, demand that they are allowed to stay in their homes as well.

Or that.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: WackyDan

Originally posted by: Farang
I'd want to destroy the country that detained me without cause also. Just because they are angry at us does not mean they do not deserve justice.

Case: They wanted to destroy the U.S. before they were detained. - Hence why they were detained. Detaining them did not suddenly impart a change in their mindset.

But obviously many of them did not, hence why even under the CSRT's, which are only a little more than kangaroo courts, quite a few of them have been released because they had absolutely no connection to any anti-US activity whatsoever.

"quite a few"... "many"... See, this is what I was referring to before. Please provide us with the actual numbers and percentages.

You are basing such statements (assumptions) on real data, right?

Of course I am. You know for someone who repeatedly claims to know so much about this topic you are showing some amazing ignorance. The US has released nearly 200 prisoners from Guantanamo without any charges. This is public information, easily available to you.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: WackyDan

Originally posted by: Farang
I'd want to destroy the country that detained me without cause also. Just because they are angry at us does not mean they do not deserve justice.

Case: They wanted to destroy the U.S. before they were detained. - Hence why they were detained. Detaining them did not suddenly impart a change in their mindset.

But obviously many of them did not, hence why even under the CSRT's, which are only a little more than kangaroo courts, quite a few of them have been released because they had absolutely no connection to any anti-US activity whatsoever.

"quite a few"... "many"... See, this is what I was referring to before. Please provide us with the actual numbers and percentages.

You are basing such statements (assumptions) on real data, right?

Of course I am. You know for someone who repeatedly claims to know so much about this topic you are showing some amazing ignorance. The US has released nearly 200 prisoners from Guantanamo without any charges. This is public information, easily available to you.

Exactly because "a significant portion" of them were picked on pure hearsay and a "significant portion" remain held with no type of charge other than Warlord X said he was a bad guy after we paid him $1,000,000 to provide 'Taliban-esque' prisoners for us.

Anyone that doesn't realize this isn't a reader or is in complete denial.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Why didn't we just try them in a Court of Law and imprison those who were proven to be terrorists in Levenworth.

Don't be ridiculous.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: winnar111
I guess we should let em all out, yeah, so they can start bombing the streets of America. The ACLU and their minions are weakening our stand in the war on terror.

Huh, a reliably republican go-to lawyer cum Bush appointed federal judge is now a minion of the ACLU. Go figure.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2008/112108.html

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: ayabe
Anyone that doesn't realize this isn't a reader or is in complete denial.

I think the 'not a reader' is a huge part, and here is an example for such people, in video form:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzEzvYXrAtA

Granted, the ones who are in complete denial will dismiss her as a bleeding heart, mistaking her passion as concern for 'some Muslim guy', completely obvious to the fact that her passion actually stems from the principles of freedom our great nation was founded upon.

 

[BMW540I6speed]

Can we all agree that the allure of sending prisoners to Gitmo in the first place was that it is technically lawless, a private Presidential anarchic fiefdom, unreachable by the U.S. Constitution, Congressional oversight, God, or the World Court? Any U.S. President could securely practice witchcraft, infanticide, bondage, torture, or inject heroin into Anne Coulter's corpse without a single glance over his shoulder. This is not a healthy power to have. I suggest that we can do without our own private Somalia and should abandon it.

Anyone, any organization, which supports Gitmo on the basis of patriotism is so sadly misinformed as to be aggressively ignorant. Fear - I could understand but pride and patriotism?

Closing Gitmo is a PR gesture. Obama isn't just going to set these guys go free - everyone knows that. We have an extensive Federal gulag system here and around the world into which these people will disappear out of sight and out of mind, awaiting their trials which may or may not every occur.

So sleep soundly you fellow ravers: that big bad commie man in the White House isn't going to allow the Arab/Muslim/assorted 'bad men' to ravage your exclusive suburban subdivisions. But you knew that already, right?

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
These guys detained in Gitmo were all innocent. We made them the way they are AFTER they were captured and detained FOR NO REASON.

Keep repeating the above mantra over and over and it magically becomes true.

no one is saying this, nice try at a talking point though

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Of course I am. You know for someone who repeatedly claims to know so much about this topic you are showing some amazing ignorance. The US has released nearly 200 prisoners from Guantanamo without any charges. This is public information, easily available to you.

Exactly because "a significant portion" of them were picked on pure hearsay and a "significant portion" remain held with no type of charge other than Warlord X said he was a bad guy after we paid him $1,000,000 to provide 'Taliban-esque' prisoners for us.

Anyone that doesn't realize this isn't a reader or is in complete denial.

"many"... "a significant portion"... "quite a few"....

I'm still waiting for one of you to produce the actual figures and data that you have used to make those assumptions or come to those conclusions. I'm extending this particular challenge for that reason; and, as I stated above, I'm primarily concerned with the roughly 250 detainees still held at Gitmo.

I already know the answer(s) to this challenge, and I've certainly seen the real data... but, I still want to see what you come up with all by yourselves... to prove a point.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: ayabe

Exactly because "a significant portion" of them were picked on pure hearsay and a "significant portion" remain held with no type of charge other than Warlord X said he was a bad guy after we paid him $1,000,000 to provide 'Taliban-esque' prisoners for us.

Anyone that doesn't realize this isn't a reader or is in complete denial.

"many"... "a significant portion"... "quite a few"....

I'm still waiting for one of you to produce the actual figures.

I'm extending this particular challenge for a reason; and, as I stated above, I'm primarily concerned with the roughly 250 detainees still held at Gitmo.

Are you blind or lazy? One hundred and eighty seven inmates of Guantanamo have been released without charges.

EDIT: Oh screw you then. You want us to jump through hoops for you? I'm done with this.

 

[nobodyknows]

http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-01-14-voa12.cfm

About 520 detainees have been released from Guantanamo or transferred to other governments since the facility was established in 2002. About 250 remain there.

President-elect Barack Obama is expected to issue an executive order to close the Guantanamo Bay prison, soon after he takes office on January 20.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: ayabe

Exactly because "a significant portion" of them were picked on pure hearsay and a "significant portion" remain held with no type of charge other than Warlord X said he was a bad guy after we paid him $1,000,000 to provide 'Taliban-esque' prisoners for us.

Anyone that doesn't realize this isn't a reader or is in complete denial.

"many"... "a significant portion"... "quite a few"....

I'm still waiting for one of you to produce the actual figures.

I'm extending this particular challenge for a reason; and, as I stated above, I'm primarily concerned with the roughly 250 detainees still held at Gitmo.

Are you blind or lazy? One hundred and eighty seven inmates of Guantanamo have been released without charges.

EDIT: Oh screw you then. You want us to jump through hoops for you? I'm done with this.

I edited my last post to make the point of the challenge more clear...

The bottom line, since I guess you're too lazy to answer the challenge, is that actual data regarding present circumstances at Gitmo does not support your claims of "many" or "quite a few."

If it was your intent to discuss historical data, then perhaps you should have made that more clear by saying things like "there used to be many..." or "there used to be quite a few..."

Get my point?

If it's any consolation, I've never been a fan of Project Gitmo... as I stated near the beginning of this discussion, I wouldn't mind seeing every last detainee released -- even the worst offenders.

 

[Lemon law]

If I were palehorse, I would be far more concerned about all the people who are joining Al-Quida because they are outraged at the USA for its policies at Gitmo and Abu Ghrab.

When some 90% in Afghanistan believe that the USA is engaged in a war against their religion, its a pretty damning statistic. And you can deny it until you are blue in the face,
but they are not going to believe you when they have seen the pictures from Abu Ghrab and read the human right abuses at GITMO.

 

[Oceandevi]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Oceandevi

Just kill them in combat next time. So much easier.

And what crimes would you suggest we commit against those who weren't captured in combat? You know... like those who were turned in by various corrupt officials for the reward money we were offering, or to settle personal grudges, regardless of whether those they shit on actually committed any crime or participated in any terrorism, whatsoever, or captured and shit on in other countries.

Good thinking, there, Sparky. :roll:

Why the insult? I did not offer a solution to those others who were brought in outside of combat. I think detaining people for this long with no long term plan is foolish.
The lack of a long term plan is our achilles heal.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Oceandevi

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Oceandevi

Just kill them in combat next time. So much easier.

And what crimes would you suggest we commit against those who weren't captured in combat? You know... like those who were turned in by various corrupt officials for the reward money we were offering, or to settle personal grudges, regardless of whether those they shit on actually committed any crime or participated in any terrorism, whatsoever, or captured and shit on in other countries.

Good thinking, there, Sparky. :roll:

Why the insult?

What insult?

 

[Oceandevi]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Oceandevi

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Oceandevi

Just kill them in combat next time. So much easier.

And what crimes would you suggest we commit against those who weren't captured in combat? You know... like those who were turned in by various corrupt officials for the reward money we were offering, or to settle personal grudges, regardless of whether those they shit on actually committed any crime or participated in any terrorism, whatsoever, or captured and shit on in other countries.

Good thinking, there, Sparky. :roll:

Why the insult?

What insult?

Think about it sparky :thumbsdown:

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Gee, did the OP bail on another thread after he got shot down with real evidence? Shocking.

WRT to the many/lots/few argument at Gitmo, from my post on the last page:

While I have no doubt that *some* are evil, and some have gone back to actually fight, but the overwhelming majority have not. Even the pentagon says only 18 are confirmed, the rest are suspected. Given that in their mind "confirmed" is making a movie, any reasonable person would question the 43. So out of some ~500 people released over the years, 18 did something wrong. Wow. a whole 4%.

So only 18 out of ~500 are confirmed. That means something like 96% haven't done anything of note. That's a pretty high percentage. Especially when the Pentagon puts totally innocent people that make movies into the "confirmed" category.

As I note before, in our criminal system, I bet that the percentage of people that are accused/tried/released (ie not convicted) and commit another crime is way higher then 4%. We even let people out of jail when their sentence is up, and I bet more the 4% commit another crime. I don't see the OP arguing that we should lock all criminals up forever, or that we should torture them all, or we should lock up forever all suspected murderers or rapists. It's a problem we live with because we believe in "innocent until proven guilty", at least most of us except for people like the OP.

The point is that you want to go after terrorists, fine with me. But you do it above board, within the law. No illegal shit, no orwellian tactics to redefine reality. Even as far back as the 80's with Reagan, terrorists were grabbed and brought back to the US for trial in a court of law, not a kangaroo court, not tortured, and not locked up without trial for 4-5 years.

Once we "grab" a terrorist, they gets our rights and privileges, just like any foreigner that commits a crime while visiting the US. If you are visiting another country, and commit a crime, you get their rights/privileges. That's the way it is, and that's the way it should be. It can suck sometimes, but we obey our laws.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: palehorse
If it was your intent to discuss historical data, then perhaps you should have made that more clear by saying things like "there used to be many..." or "there used to be quite a few..."

There has been a whole lot released without ever being changed with anything, which shows really poor judgment when imprisoning them in the first place, and the lack of charges on many still being held there doesn't give much credibility to their unsubstantiated claims of their guilt.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
There has been a whole lot released without ever being changed with anything, which shows really poor judgment when imprisoning them in the first place, and the lack of charges on many still being held there doesn't give much credibility to their unsubstantiated claims of their guilt.

How many is "many"? Do you know?

 

[palehorse]

open source data is your friend...

Brookings study shows Gitmo inmates are threat

Excerpt:

The report finds that the government alleges the following about the remaining 248 inmates; "81 detainees traveled to Afghanistan for jihad, 130 stayed in Al Qaeda, Taliban, or other guest- or safehouses, 169 detainees took military or terrorist training in Afghanistan, 84 actually fought for the Taliban, many of them on the front lines against the NorthernAlliance, 88 were at Tora Bora, 71 detainees? names or aliases were found on computers, hard drives, physical lists of Al Qaeda operatives, or other material seized in raids on Al Qaeda safehouses and facilities. 64 detainees were captured under circumstances?military surrenders, live combat actions, traveling in a large pack of Mujahideen, or in the company of senior Al Qaeda figures, for example?that strongly suggest belligerency and 28 detainees served on Osama Bin Laden?s security detail.

It should be noted that bin Laden's body guards are chosen for their fierce loyalty to bin Laden and their brutality. Over 10% of the prisoners fall into this category. According to the study, over a quarter of the prisoners have admitted to the reasons for their internment, that they were involved at some level with terrorist groups. The study also reveals their alleged participation in terror groups by level of involvement; "27 members of Al Qaeda?s leadership cadre, 99 lower-level Al Qaeda operatives, 9 members of the Taliban?s leadership cadre, 93 foreign fighters, and 14 Taliban fighters and operatives."

/discuss

 

[Farang]

Originally posted by: palehorse

/discuss

Sweet, that solves the problem then. With all of this evidence we can try and convict them in a court of law and be done with it. Why are we even discussing this anymore, let's start tomorrow and we'll get sure convictions right?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: palehorse

/discuss

Sweet, that solves the problem then. With all of this evidence we can try and convict them in a court of law and be done with it. Why are we even discussing this anymore, let's start tomorrow and we'll get sure convictions right?

If only it were that easy...

Once again, our military and intelligence processes do not mesh very well with our law enforcement and justice processes. Prosecuting these animals using our own systems and laws would be next to impossible -- each and every one of them might get dismissed in seconds due to some sort of technicality that intelligence or military practitioners would find absurd.

Examples: In the Army, we don't read captured terrorists any form of Miranda Rights, they don't have access to an attorney before questioning (interrogation), and our field operatives/soldiers don't follow normal law enforcement rules for evidence collection or handling.

That said, as I pointed out earlier in this thread, our newer Joint Task Forces are working to close the legal gaps and mitigate these barriers for future captures or "arrests." However, that does not do much to solve the dilemma we have with the 248 older detainees described above.

So now what?

My suggestion is to let them all go and then let their God -- and our Special Forces -- sort them all out...

 

[kylebisme]

Yeah, of course there are allegation against many of them, but actually filing charges on them is another matter:

About 255 men are still held at the US-run naval base in Cuba, a symbol of aggressive interrogation methods that exposed the US to allegations of torture. Most have not been charged with a crime and their detention in the facility has enraged the Muslim world.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t...cas/article5506559.ece

Nothing like making more terrorists though our own barbarism which fanatics like Palehorse revel in. :disgust:

 

[NewPhone]

No Duh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!