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Penryn only 0-10% over Conroe?

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Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Barcelona should be cooler and more efficient than Penryn, but who knows until it's out.
Click to expand...

Yeah, because 65nm will surely run cooler than 45nm! :laugh:

IMHO Penryn isn't going to be huge. It'll be like Yonah -> Merom. Nehalem looks tasty though.
Click to expand...
If you read the AT article, Penryn is barely any more efficient than the current C2Q processors.

Barcelona will be more efficient. I would bet money on it.
 
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Barcelona should be cooler and more efficient than Penryn, but who knows until it's out.
Click to expand...

Err... 45nm vs 65nm?
Click to expand...
I would take an A64's cool-n-quiet feature over a C2D on a smaller process, just as an example. My Opteron 165 is dead silent while browsing and at idle (90% of the time) because of that feature.

AMD has awesome power efficiency; they always have. The manufacturing technology only helps to a degree. Barcelona *will* be more efficient than anything intel will have.
 
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Barcelona should be cooler and more efficient than Penryn, but who knows until it's out.
Click to expand...

Err... 45nm vs 65nm?
Click to expand...
I would take an A64's cool-n-quiet feature over a C2D on a smaller process, just as an example. My Opteron 165 is dead silent while browsing and at idle (90% of the time) because of that feature.

AMD has awesome power efficiency; they always have. The manufacturing technology only helps to a degree. Barcelona *will* be more efficient than anything intel will have.
Click to expand...

Firstly Penryn will introduce what is known as Deep Power Down Technology where it has the ability to shut down almost everything at idle. Thats just a small description of what that technology does. You can check out what it does more indepth in one of ATs article.

Secondly from hkepc
Idle (EIST Disable)
Intel Core 2 Duo E6550

Power - 61W
Temp - 41C

Intel Wolfdate 2.33GHz ES

Power - 43W
Temp - 31C

Max Power Loading Tools for Vista
Intel Core 2 Duo E6550

Power - 83W
Temp - 49C

Intel Wolfdate 2.33GHz ES

Power - 59W
Temp - 37C
Click to expand...

You see the difference in temps? We dont even know how well barcelona or more precisely the phenom will perform. Saying "Cool n Quiet" makes AMD more efficient is just a way too broad of a statement.

Plus silence has nothing to do with efficiency. Silence has everything to do with the cooler being used. The manufacturering process, technology and "know hows" helps to a LARGE degree. Intel has a huge advantage in terms of having to produce CPUs from 45nm high k process already and from the looks of it will benefit intel for the time to come. (in terms of power consumption etc etc)

The difference between the conroe and the AMD X2 is already large at best at ALL fields of benchmarks. Now penryn increases this by 1~10%. Heck AMD will have to produce quite a performer to compete well when intel is having no issues with yield OR clock speed issues.
 
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Barcelona should be cooler and more efficient than Penryn, but who knows until it's out.
Click to expand...

Err... 45nm vs 65nm?
Click to expand...
I would take an A64's cool-n-quiet feature over a C2D on a smaller process, just as an example. My Opteron 165 is dead silent while browsing and at idle (90% of the time) because of that feature.

AMD has awesome power efficiency; they always have. The manufacturing technology only helps to a degree. Barcelona *will* be more efficient than anything intel will have.
Click to expand...

EIST?
 
Originally posted by: SickBeast
I would take an A64's cool-n-quiet feature over a C2D on a smaller process, just as an example. My Opteron 165 is dead silent while browsing and at idle (90% of the time) because of that feature.
Click to expand...
Any CPU can run silent when doing nothing, what about when they actually work? My E6600 overclocked to 3.2GHz can run dual Prime95 with a fanless Scythe Ninja without throttling.

 
Umm.. dunno. It seems like a hell lot better achievement than AMD's Clawhammer (130nm) -> San Diego (90nm). Of course it's all about manufacturing - I mean it in a slightly different sense from 'technology'. Anyone (well, OK maybe not anyone 😛 ) can draw a dream CPU on a paper, but whether or not capable of manufacturing it is something entirely different. I am very impressed by the improvement - more than anything on the L2. Intel not only packs more L2 cache on Penryn, but also they managed to make it even denser. One of the AMD's weak points is that their cache performance is horrible (which of course made up for by on-die memory controller, to some extent).

I mean, if AMD can manufacture their L1/L2 cache as fast/dense as that of Intel's, the competition between A64 and Conroe wouldn't be like this today. And with Penryn, we'll see even higher clock frequencies as well as lower power consumption. It looks like Intel's on the rock these days.
 
One thing people are overlooking is that in the preview, Anand was able to push the A0 chip to 3.22Ghz on 1.15v!
 
Originally posted by: HopJokey
One thing people are overlooking is that in the preview, Anand was able to push the A0 chip to 3.22Ghz on 1.15v!
Click to expand...

Dont forget, however, that they wont tolerate "conroe like" voltages either.

The ceiling for safe voltage will be around 1.3v
 
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Barcelona should be cooler and more efficient than Penryn, but who knows until it's out.
Click to expand...

Err... 45nm vs 65nm?
Click to expand...
I would take an A64's cool-n-quiet feature over a C2D on a smaller process, just as an example. My Opteron 165 is dead silent while browsing and at idle (90% of the time) because of that feature.

AMD has awesome power efficiency; they always have. The manufacturing technology only helps to a degree. Barcelona *will* be more efficient than anything intel will have.
Click to expand...



Isn't this the same company that released the FX-7x series of chips?
 
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Barcelona should be cooler and more efficient than Penryn, but who knows until it's out.
Click to expand...

Err... 45nm vs 65nm?
Click to expand...
I would take an A64's cool-n-quiet feature over a C2D on a smaller process, just as an example. My Opteron 165 is dead silent while browsing and at idle (90% of the time) because of that feature.

AMD has awesome power efficiency; they always have. The manufacturing technology only helps to a degree. Barcelona *will* be more efficient than anything intel will have.
Click to expand...

Since when did processors make noise? And if you're talking about fans, then what's stopping an Intel user from buying the same HSF?
 
Originally posted by: TuxDave
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Barcelona should be cooler and more efficient than Penryn, but who knows until it's out.
Click to expand...

Err... 45nm vs 65nm?
Click to expand...
I would take an A64's cool-n-quiet feature over a C2D on a smaller process, just as an example. My Opteron 165 is dead silent while browsing and at idle (90% of the time) because of that feature.

AMD has awesome power efficiency; they always have. The manufacturing technology only helps to a degree. Barcelona *will* be more efficient than anything intel will have.
Click to expand...

Since when did processors make noise? And if you're talking about fans, then what's stopping an Intel user from buying the same HSF?
Click to expand...

Hey, electrons make noise too! 🙂
 
Originally posted by: HopJokey
Originally posted by: TuxDave
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Barcelona should be cooler and more efficient than Penryn, but who knows until it's out.
Click to expand...

Err... 45nm vs 65nm?
Click to expand...
I would take an A64's cool-n-quiet feature over a C2D on a smaller process, just as an example. My Opteron 165 is dead silent while browsing and at idle (90% of the time) because of that feature.

AMD has awesome power efficiency; they always have. The manufacturing technology only helps to a degree. Barcelona *will* be more efficient than anything intel will have.
Click to expand...

Since when did processors make noise? And if you're talking about fans, then what's stopping an Intel user from buying the same HSF?
Click to expand...

Hey, electrons make noise too! 🙂
Click to expand...

True, I heard my processor go "ZZZZAP!!!" once. That wasn't very fun. 🙁
 
Originally posted by: SickBeast
According to Fudzilla, Barcelona will have a golden opportunity seeing as Penryn is slower than expected.

I really do expect Barcelona to be much better than people are saying.
Click to expand...

I don't for one reason.

They have not released any performance numbers that show what it can do.

That, and that alone, tells me it is not up to what they wish it was.
 
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: HopJokey
One thing people are overlooking is that in the preview, Anand was able to push the A0 chip to 3.22Ghz on 1.15v!
Click to expand...

Dont forget, however, that they wont tolerate "conroe like" voltages either.

The ceiling for safe voltage will be around 1.3v
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter about voltage. It's not like every C2D needs 1.5v to hit 3.6Ghz. I bet you'll see 1.3v giving overclocks similar to an E6600 at 1.45v will. (50%+)
 
Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: HopJokey
One thing people are overlooking is that in the preview, Anand was able to push the A0 chip to 3.22Ghz on 1.15v!
Click to expand...

Dont forget, however, that they wont tolerate "conroe like" voltages either.

The ceiling for safe voltage will be around 1.3v
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter about voltage. It's not like every C2D needs 1.5v to hit 3.6Ghz. I bet you'll see 1.3v giving overclocks similar to an E6600 at 1.45v will. (50%+)
Click to expand...

Yeah that will definately be the case, as with all of the die shrinks.

Some people forget though and crank a previous safe vcore through a die shrink.

Not pretty.
 
Originally posted by: kknd1967
no gaming setting
limited number of benchmarks
189w-170w = 12.6w?

this preview is a not good enough, compared to existing HKEPC review
Click to expand...
hkpec was not allowed to do anything that they wanted in their review. AT actually got their own chip and did what they wanted with it, that's why it was only a 4.7 % increase instead of "10-20%". realistically, let's assume that something other than divx gets sse4 optimizations in the next year and allow penryn an 8% increase. that still isn't such a tremendous improvement that we should all immediately jump on the bandwagon. For me, 20 % would be worth buying an entirely new quad core rig and passing my e6750 system down to the wife. 8 % plus small heat reduction leaves the door open for phenom imho, not just for me but for a few others who remember the A64 launch. IIRC the e6750 is a few % better than the e6700, so penryn is still probably showing an overall decent improvement, it's just not as much as we had been led to believe.
 
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: HopJokey
One thing people are overlooking is that in the preview, Anand was able to push the A0 chip to 3.22Ghz on 1.15v!
Click to expand...

Dont forget, however, that they wont tolerate "conroe like" voltages either.

The ceiling for safe voltage will be around 1.3v
Click to expand...
why would the safe voltage ceiling be so low?

 
I am not sure what do you mean by saying "hkpec was not allowed to do anything that they wanted in their review". If you read that review in Chinese, it is their ES chip and they can do any benchmark they want.

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
Originally posted by: kknd1967
no gaming setting
limited number of benchmarks
189w-170w = 12.6w?

this preview is a not good enough, compared to existing HKEPC review
Click to expand...
hkpec was not allowed to do anything that they wanted in their review. AT actually got their own chip and did what they wanted with it, that's why it was only a 4.7 % increase instead of "10-20%". realistically, let's assume that something other than divx gets sse4 optimizations in the next year and allow penryn an 8% increase. that still isn't such a tremendous improvement that we should all immediately jump on the bandwagon. For me, 20 % would be worth buying an entirely new quad core rig and passing my e6750 system down to the wife. 8 % plus small heat reduction leaves the door open for phenom imho, not just for me but for a few others who remember the A64 launch. IIRC the e6750 is a few % better than the e6700, so penryn is still probably showing an overall decent improvement, it's just not as much as we had been led to believe.
Click to expand...

 
Originally posted by: bryanW1995
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: HopJokey
One thing people are overlooking is that in the preview, Anand was able to push the A0 chip to 3.22Ghz on 1.15v!
Click to expand...

Dont forget, however, that they wont tolerate "conroe like" voltages either.

The ceiling for safe voltage will be around 1.3v
Click to expand...
why would the safe voltage ceiling be so low?
Click to expand...

Because the smaller you make the gates, the easier it is to slow roast them with voltage 😛

They also require less voltage to run, so its a non issue as long as you know not to set it too high.
 
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