Penn State protects child rapist that was former famous D-Coordinator

[IndyColtsFan]

Blacklisting them - making any sanctions handed out against individuals follow them to new institutions for a certain period of time. However, that's a rather impotent punishment. That's why Pete and Jim had to go pro, where it's expected the players get paid.

Yeah, I was going to say, I believe that sanctions can follow coaches. That's why Pete, Jim, and Kelvin Sampson (see link earlier) had to go pro. I'm not sure if the NCAA could legally have an agreement with the NBA or NFL to exact some punishment on these guys; that gets into some very tricky legal grounds.

Kelvin Sampson basically destroyed the Indiana basketball program and it is just now recovering.

 

[sixone]

And again, you've been told repeatedly that it is the NCAA's job to investigate the conduct of the school to see if any violations of "lack of institutional control" and other such bylaws existed. If punishment is not levied in cases where "guilty" findings are made, it would just encourage schools to try to skirt the law and then have people quit/leave at the first sign of trouble.

If there are criminal and civil penalties that follow the individual, then there's no incentive to skirt the law. If those individuals are accountable to the NCAA via a blacklist, fines, etc., there's even less incentive.

But no amount of punishment threatened will stop some people from trying to get around the rules. That's a fact of life. We owe it to the innocent not to make them pay the price for the guilty.

I noticed that you dodged my earlier question, so I will be courteous and repeat it: Who makes NCAA rules? Who effectively runs the NCAA?

Not relevant to the current discussion.

 

[waggy]

If they retire, problem solved, they can no longer be paid to do what they were doing, and if what they were doing was illegal, they can be subject to punishment from the courts as well (which is honestly more appropriate). If they go to the pros? Well, I think the NCAA should try reaching out to the NFL and making a case that someone who violated sanctions at the collegiate level shouldn't be allowed to escape those sanctions at the pro level. Those organizations are inexorably tied. And the Colts did just that when they brought in Tressel; they kept him banned for several games because of the NCAA sanctions against him. That's the right thing to do. Punish the people who made the decisions, not the thousands of people who had nothing to do with it but will be impacted by shutting down football at an institution the size of PSU.

Tressel was brought in as a consultant. not a coach or player. he was nothing to the team and was passed over for the coaching job.

If you think a professional team is going to impose NCAA punishment on a player for idiotic shit (besides PSU stuff. that's major) like selling a jersey. when they are paying them millions and need them to play every sunday you are even more of a idiot then six.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Not relevant to the current discussion.

Of course it's relevant to the discussion, you're just not intelligent enough to understand.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

If there are criminal and civil penalties that follow the individual, then there's no incentive to skirt the law. If those individuals are accountable to the NCAA via a blacklist, fines, etc., there's even less incentive.

If...If...If! Guess what? Most of these cases aren't old guys raping young boys. Most are violations of NCAA rules that would not result in criminal or civil penalties (see: Kelvin Sampson). He scurried off the sinking ship and his school was punished. And it should have been.

But no amount of punishment threatened will stop some people from trying to get around the rules. That's a fact of life. We owe it to the innocent not to make them pay the price for the guilty.

Membership in the NCAA is not mandatory. The expectations of NCAA membership are very clear to its members.

Not relevant to the current discussion.

It is entirely relevant. Answer the questions. If you don't know the answers, a simple "I don't know" will suffice and I'll answer them for you.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Of course it's relevant to the discussion, you're just not intelligent enough to understand.

Glad someone can see the point I'm about to make before I make it.

 

[RPD]

I still want to know how WATER isn't wet if it's too hot or too cold.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Tressel was brought in as a consultant. not a coach or player. he was nothing to the team and was passed over for the coaching job.

If you think a professional team is going to impose NCAA punishment on a player for idiotic shit (besides PSU stuff. that's major) like selling a jersey. when they are paying them millions and need them to play every sunday you are even more of a idiot then six.

Well, that's another thing. I think everyone realizes that there's a fairly massive gap between something like pay-for-play or selling memorabilia and covering up the rape of young boys. But the NCAA is really set up more to handle the former than the latter. And people are increasingly calling for some method of pay-for-play for student athletes as it is, to the point where 10 years from now, the actions of Tressel or Carroll aren't even going to be violations. But no one is ever going to sanction child rape. No one is going to sanction the actions involved in covering it up. You put someone's name on a blacklist for that, it's obviously a lot more serious than selling championship rings. And that's a mark that will follow McQueary, Spanier, Curley and Schultz forever, not just in collegiate or professional athletics, but in everything they ever try to do.

 

[surfsatwerk]

I still want to know how WATER isn't wet if it's too hot or too cold.

Ice-nine

 

[waggy]

Well, that's another thing. I think everyone realizes that there's a fairly massive gap between something like pay-for-play or selling memorabilia and covering up the rape of young boys. But the NCAA is really set up more to handle the former than the latter. And people are increasingly calling for some method of pay-for-play for student athletes as it is, to the point where 10 years from now, the actions of Tressel or Carroll aren't even going to be violations. But no one is ever going to sanction child rape. No one is going to sanction the actions involved in covering it up. You put someone's name on a blacklist for that, it's obviously a lot more serious than selling championship rings. And that's a mark that will follow McQueary, Spanier, Curley and Schultz forever, not just in collegiate or professional athletics, but in everything they ever try to do.

I do t hink they should pay student athletes. but then again some are getting a free ride to college.

its a huge problem. one kids are making the college millions. does a full ride cut it? i would say yes for most kids

I don't have a answer for that though.

 

[sixone]

If...If...If! Guess what? Most of these cases aren't old guys raping young boys. Most are violations of NCAA rules that would not result in criminal or civil penalties (see: Kelvin Sampson). He scurried off the sinking ships and his school was punished. And it should have been.

Membership in the NCAA is not mandatory. The expectations of NCAA membership are very clear to its members.

Then why isn't the NCAA amending its rules to impose civil penalties for those kinds of violations? Is it not in the schools' best interest to have the violators penalized instead of the schools?

The NCAA isn't operating in the same environment they were when they were created in the '50s. If the members want to abdicate common sense, they're free to do so. So are the fans who will be penalized if PSU football is nuked.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Blacklisting them - making any sanctions handed out against individuals follow them to new institutions for a certain period of time. However, that's a rather impotent punishment. That's why Pete and Jim had to go pro, where it's expected the players get paid.

Regarding PSU, I think the NCAA will likely hand down a death penalty lite punishment. Not so severe as SMU's, but enough that the program will be bottom-barrel for at least two or three years. Postseason bans, scholarship reductions, and the like. Then again considering the level of lunacy you read online from some PSU supporters, it might take a lot more than that to get it through their thick skulls that football is less important than doing what you can to stop child rape. And I suspect that PSU will eventually take JoePa's name off of their library and take his statue down if it becomes apparent that he was in fact enabling Sandusky.

Bumping a resonable post because I cans.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Then why isn't the NCAA amending its rules to impose civil penalties for those kinds of violations? Is it not in the schools' best interest to have the violators penalized instead of the schools?

Answer my questions.

The NCAA isn't operating in the same environment they were when they were created in the '50s. If the members want to abdicate common sense, they're free to do so. So are the fans who will be penalized if PSU football is nuked.

The NCAA started in 1906.

 

[waggy]

Everyone knows steam is dry. Wait wut?

same fucking way you can have Extra Dry Vermouth! i tried some! its still fucking wet!

 

[surfsatwerk]

same fucking way you can have Extra Dry Vermouth! i tried some! its still fucking wet!

How many olives were in it, that makes a difference.

 

[sixone]

I still want to know how WATER isn't wet if it's too hot or too cold.

I didn't say ONLY when it's too hot or too cold.

 

[sixone]

Answer my questions.

The NCAA started in 1906.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ncaa

And now you'll answer mine, right? Right?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ncaa

And now you'll answer mine, right? Right?

Answer my question. Linking to wikipedia won't help. The answer to your question is the answer to mine.

Also, while you're at it, please explain how the NCAA could enforce civil penalties.

 

[sixone]

We just need to be patient. I'm sure Six will enlighten us as to these new physical properties she's invented. Or maybe it's a new state of matter.

I'm on pins and needles!

I did it four minutes before your post. Thanks for playing!!

 

[sixone]

Answer my question. Linking to wikipedia won't help. The answer to your question is the answer to mine.

I didn't ask you for facts. I asked you for conclusions. Sorry if it was too much.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I didn't ask you for facts. I asked you for conclusions. Sorry if it was too much.

You missed this part of my post:

"Also, while you're at it, please explain how the NCAA could enforce civil penalties. "

 

[RPD]

I didn't say ONLY when it's too hot or too cold.

Not if you make it hot or cold enough.

Correct, you just said IF you make it hot or cold enough.

Not sure how your link relates to hot or cold. Quit dodging the question.

 

[sixone]

You missed this part of my post:

"Also, while you're at it, please explain how the NCAA could enforce civil penalties. "

The same way anyone else enforces civil penalties when a contract is breached. Do we really need to go into that?

Or would you rather stop dodging my questions?

 

[sixone]

Correct, you just said IF you make it hot or cold enough.

Not sure how your link relates to hot or cold. Quit dodging the question.

Did you really miss this in biology class? or did you just miss biology class?

 

[sixone]

Your stubbornness and fragility never cease to amaze.

And yet you keep coming back to talk to me. It's almost flattering.