Penn State protects child rapist that was former famous D-Coordinator

[preslove]

They probably don't even know where to start with this shitshow. What are the options?

Once the trials of the pieces of shit who covered this up are over, I'd imagine that the NCAA will just summarize the findings of the courts and then nuke the program for violating section 2.4 of the NCAA handbook, which covers ethical conduct. There are fewer things less ethical than knowingly enabling a child molester....

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D112.pdf

2.4 THE PRINCIPLE OF SPORTSMANSHIP AND ETHICAL CONDUCT [*]
For intercollegiate athletics to promote the character development of participants, to enhance the integrity of higher education and to promote civility in society, student- athletes, coaches, and all others associated with these athletics programs and events should adhere to such fundamental values as respect, fairness, civility, honesty and responsibility. These values should be manifest not only in athletics participation, but also in the broad spectrum of activities affecting the athletics program. It is the responsibility of each institution to: (Revised: 1/9/96)

(a) Establish policies for sportsmanship and ethical conduct in intercollegiate athletics consistent with the educational
mission and goals of the institution; and (Adopted: 1/9/96)
(b) Educate, on a continuing basis, all constituencies about the policies in Constitution 2.4-(a). (Adopted: 1/9/96)

I doubt that the NCAA will say "we didn't include a 'don't rape children' clause in our rulebook, so we can't punish them." The text in bold reads to me like catch-all language. If Penn St. had conducted its athletic program in an honest fashion, 10 years worth of victims would not have been molested. This is the type of program that does not deserve to be a member of the NCAA.

 

[waggy]

with the new info coming out i do expect the ncaa to come down hard on them. Its even worse then i think most imagined it would be.

No playoffs for 2-3 years and no scholarships for a few years and some serious fines.

I still don't think they will devolve the team (as a few were saying).

 

[preslove]

I think only one football program has ever received the death penalty (SMU) and it devastated the program so badly that they've talked about never using it again. There was a great 30 for 30 on it.

SMU didn't cover up for a serial child molester. I'm sure that whoever 'talked about never using it again,' never imagined that an AD would do something as disgusting as this.

If Penn St. doesn't get nuked at least as hard as SMU, then it tells the broader society that the NCAA views paying players as worse than engaging in a criminal conspiracy to cover up at least 10 years of serial child molestation.

I'm not sure it's appropriate here (or ever).

You have no moral compass, then.

 

[SP33Demon]

...and his life.
It's pretty obvious he died of a broken heart.

He took the easy way out and is lucky he's dead.

 

[actuarial]

SMU didn't cover up for a serial child molester. I'm sure that whoever 'talked about never using it again,' never imagined that an AD would do something as disgusting as this.

If Penn St. doesn't get nuked at least as hard as SMU, then it tells the broader society that the NCAA views paying players as worse than engaging in a criminal conspiracy to cover up at least 10 years of serial child molestation.

It doesn't do that at all. What SMU did was directly related to actually playing football, and the team on the field. What happened here is only related to football because the people involved were part of the football program.

You have no moral compass, then.

I just want to see those guilty face punishment, and I don't see how cancelling a future season, after everyone who was involved was fired, achieves that at all. Explain to me how cancelling the season punishes the people involved with this.

 

[GrumpyMan]

It doesn't do that at all. What SMU did was directly related to actually playing football, and the team on the field. What happened here is only related to football because the people involved were part of the football program.

Wasn't Sandusky actually coaching when this all started. And it happened in the sports facillities and during trips of football games, what do you mean only to people part of the football program?

 

[preslove]

It doesn't do that at all. What SMU did was directly related to actually playing football, and the team on the field. What happened here is only related to football because the people involved were part of the football program.

The Athletic Director runs the football program. He's in charge. He covered up for a football coach who fucked little boys inside campus facilities. If you can't comprehend how the BOSS OF THE GOD DAMNED FOOTBALL TEAM committing a criminal conspiracy related to a football coach is not a football matter, then you are a fucking idiot.

Explain to me how cancelling the season punishes the people involved with this.

Uh... this is true for most NCAA punishments. Players who receive money/gifts from boosters never get punished. They just go pro, while their teams (and new recruits) get screwed over in the following year. By your pathetic attempt at logic, the NCAA would never punish any school. The coach resigns, the players go pro, then the school continues on without losing any scholarships.

 

[HendrixFan]

Uh... this is true for most NCAA punishments. Players who receive money/gifts from boosters never get punished. They just go pro, while their teams (and new recruits) get screwed over in the following year. By your pathetic attempt at logic, the NCAA would never punish any school. The coach resigns, the players go pro, then the school continues on without losing any scholarships.

The NCAA has no real power to punish the individuals involved, especially after they have moved on. They can punish the institution and they do so (though they have gone easy in recent years). By punishing the institutions heavily, it encourages them to self police.

 

[preslove]

The NCAA has no real power to punish the individuals involved, especially after they have moved on. They can punish the institution and they do so (though they have gone easy in recent years). By punishing the institutions heavily, it encourages them to self police.

Yes, and? My refutation of his stupid point still stands.

Penn St. has clearly violated the NCAA ethics rules in the worst scandal to ever rock collegiate sports. This deserves a punishment that goes beyond any other punishment that they've given.

Self policing over child molestation should be more important than self policing over paying players. The entire NCAA rule book is based around fairness, honesty, and good character. Covering up for child predators is neither fair or honest, and it displays just about the worst character that can be displayed by a coach or administrator.

I've posted this several times, and anyone who can't understand why the NCAA has to nuke Penn St. after reading it is a fucking illiterate: http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D112.pdf

 

[cronos]

I think he was agreeing with you, preslove.

 

[HendrixFan]

Yes, and? My refutation of his stupid point still stands.

I agree wholeheartedly, just expanding upon that little bit for anyone else reading.

 

[Fern]

Once the trials of the pieces of shit who covered this up are over, I'd imagine that the NCAA will just summarize the findings of the courts and then nuke the program for violating section 2.4 of the NCAA handbook, which covers ethical conduct.
-snip-

If it wants, I think the NCAA can get them for lack of institutional control also.

Earlier I read an article where attorneys specializing in sports law were interviewed. They cited the recent emails as strong evidence there were violations of the institutional control ("I.C.") rules. IIRC, they said it appeared that Joepa had authority over the university Pres and A.D. which is contrary to the rule. The I.C. rule requires the coach to be under the A.D. and the A.D. under the prez.

In their opinion this would make Penn State subject to the "death penalty" if the NCAA wished to impose it.

Fern

 

[sactoking]

This is an IT forum.

How do they find emails from 2001? I highly doubt it was printed out, so that means it was backed up somewhere for 11 years?!
Most companies have policies in place to delete anything older than 2 years.

This email seems suspicious, like it is almost too perfect.

Crazy that he mentioned Joe and said he is now uncomfortable turning him in.


That is the most perfect evidence of a cover-up ever obtained.

They're a public entity; I wouldn't be surprised if their records retention laws said they had to hold the emails at least 30 years.

 

[actuarial]

The Athletic Director runs the football program. He's in charge. He covered up for a football coach who fucked little boys inside campus facilities. If you can't comprehend how the BOSS OF THE GOD DAMNED FOOTBALL TEAM committing a criminal conspiracy related to a football coach is not a football matter, then you are a fucking idiot.

It's a business matter, not related to actually playing football. How did this incident affect the results on the field for the students? Paying players directly results in changing the results on the field.

Uh... this is true for most NCAA punishments. Players who receive money/gifts from boosters never get punished. They just go pro, while their teams (and new recruits) get screwed over in the following year. By your pathetic attempt at logic, the NCAA would never punish any school. The coach resigns, the players go pro, then the school continues on without losing any scholarships.

I agree, and contrary to the opinion that these types of punishments encourage self policing, I believe they encourage covering them up. Regardless of if Paterno had covered up the molestation, I gather you would be calling for a suspended season. Given that, Paterno has the choice of accepting penalty for something someone else did (as well as all the students) or covering something up. What he did is truly horrible, but punishing someone else who did nothing wrong for it isn't going to prevent that in the future.

I think NCAA punishments should be against those involved. It's hard to fine players when they accept fines, so ban the coaches if they knew about it and didn't report it (like say lifetime bans). Don't punish people who had nothing to do with it.

Let's send a really big message - just ban all of the Big 10 from playing next year.

 

[FallenHero]

If it wants, I think the NCAA can get them for lack of institutional control also.

Earlier I read an article where attorneys specializing in sports law were interviewed. They cited the recent emails as strong evidence there were violations of the institutional control ("I.C.") rules. IIRC, they said it appeared that Joepa had authority over the university Pres and A.D. which is contrary to the rule. The I.C. rule requires the coach to be under the A.D. and the A.D. under the prez.

In their opinion this would make Penn State subject to the "death penalty" if the NCAA wished to impose it.

Fern

There was a very lengthy debate on the local radio sports show the other day about it. It basically comes down to one of two options:

1) Acknowledge that it's not a problem related to the program and say its only a criminal matter
OR
2) Acknowledge the lack of I.C. and give the death penalty.

There is no middle ground in this. You can't come in and give a half-assed penalty over something like this and not look inept. Accept that its a criminal matter and nothing else, or destroy Penn States football program.

I personally hope for option 2.

 

[FallenHero]

It's a business matter, not related to actually playing football. How did this incident affect the results on the field for the students? Paying players directly results in changing the results on the field.



I agree, and contrary to the opinion that these types of punishments encourage self policing, I believe they encourage covering them up. Regardless of if Paterno had covered up the molestation, I gather you would be calling for a suspended season. Given that, Paterno has the choice of accepting penalty for something someone else did (as well as all the students) or covering something up. What he did is truly horrible, but punishing someone else who did nothing wrong for it isn't going to prevent that in the future.

I think NCAA punishments should be against those involved. It's hard to fine players when they accept fines, so ban the coaches if they knew about it and didn't report it (like say lifetime bans). Don't punish people who had nothing to do with it.

Let's send a really big message - just ban all of the Big 10 from playing next year.

You aren't looking at this from a controlling body perspective. The point isn't to punish the players or current employees. The point is to send a message, a massive threat, to everyone. Keep your shit clean, or we can end you instantly. The current players, under a death penalty scenario, are given releases and they can go anywhere and play without penalty. That's what makes it so harsh. Not only does it end their season for the year, it ends their entire program for years, if not decades. Almost every scholarship level athlete is allowed to leave without fear of losing anything.

The university dug themselves this hole.

 

[zinfamous]

so if NCAA issued the death penalty to PSU football, that would chop off ~$60 mil of their ~$4 bill annual revenue.

Well, boo-fucking-hoo. But good riddance if it happens. If NCAA has some balls, of the state of Pennsylvania has some balls, they'll send a message.

 

[zinfamous]

You aren't looking at this from a controlling body perspective. The point isn't to punish the players or current employees. The point is to send a message, a massive threat, to everyone. Keep your shit clean, or we can end you instantly. The current players, under a death penalty scenario, are given releases and they can go anywhere and play without penalty. That's what makes it so harsh. Not only does it end their season for the year, it ends their entire program for years, if not decades. Almost every scholarship level athlete is allowed to leave without fear of losing anything.

The university dug themselves this hole.

This. It's happened before, and will happen again. I have no idea why people keep making this argument that "it punishes the players."

No, it absofuckinglutely does not. NCAA will always clear innocent players to go wherever they want, and play immediately in such situations. This punishes the program, and nothing more.

 

[zinfamous]

Let's send a really big message - just ban all of the Big 10 from playing next year.

:hmm:

didn't they all stop playing about 10 years ago, anyway?

 

[TheVrolok]

This. It's happened before, and will happen again. I have no idea why people keep making this argument that "it punishes the players."

No, it absofuckinglutely does not. NCAA will always clear innocent players to go wherever they want, and play immediately in such situations. This punishes the program, and nothing more.

Of course it punishes the players. You think it's no big deal to have to uproot, move to a new school, and find a similar spot for yourself? Not all teams are the same, not all have the same needs. A player that went to PSU to fill a spot/get some play time in a certain position may not have the opportunity to find the same spot on another team, much less one nearby. Now I'm not saying there shouldn't be severe punishment or a death penalty, I'm simply saying that to say it doesn't punish the players are all is incredibly ignorant.

 

[waggy]

This. It's happened before, and will happen again. I have no idea why people keep making this argument that "it punishes the players."

No, it absofuckinglutely does not. NCAA will always clear innocent players to go wherever they want, and play immediately in such situations. This punishes the program, and nothing more.

err yeah it does.

just because they are clear to go where they can does not mean there are spots, the same position, starting level, friends, etc etc.

 

[waggy]

There was a very lengthy debate on the local radio sports show the other day about it. It basically comes down to one of two options:

1) Acknowledge that it's not a problem related to the program and say its only a criminal matter
OR
2) Acknowledge the lack of I.C. and give the death penalty.

There is no middle ground in this. You can't come in and give a half-assed penalty over something like this and not look inept. Accept that its a criminal matter and nothing else, or destroy Penn States football program.

I personally hope for option 2.

they are going to have to do something. i read a few expect 2-3 years no post games, no scholarships and heavy fines at the least.

I feel so sorry for the kids playing. they had nothing to do with this yet are going to be the ones fucked over...again.

 

[Gibsons]

If NCAA has some balls, of the state of Pennsylvania has some balls, they'll send a message.

I predict the NCAA will do nothing.

 

[zinfamous]

Of course it punishes the players. You think it's no big deal to have to uproot, move to a new school, and find a similar spot for yourself? Not all teams are the same, not all have the same needs. A player that went to PSU to fill a spot/get some play time in a certain position may not have the opportunity to find the same spot on another team, much less one nearby. Now I'm not saying there shouldn't be severe punishment or a death penalty, I'm simply saying that to say it doesn't punish the players are all is incredibly ignorant.

err yeah it does.

just because they are clear to go where they can does not mean there are spots, the same position, starting level, friends, etc etc.

Sure, it isn't easy. I think the Admins and AD officials responsible for allowing the child rape to continue should have considered this when they willfully allowed this criminal activity to continue, and compromised their innocent players.

There's at least 11 (now 12, I think) young men out there that were pretty fucking innocent in all this.

basically: I don't give a shit about the PSU AD. They fucked themselves, they deserve the severest possible punishment--and all that comes with it.

 

[surfsatwerk]

This. It's happened before, and will happen again. I have no idea why people keep making this argument that "it punishes the players."

No, it absofuckinglutely does not. NCAA will always clear innocent players to go wherever they want, and play immediately in such situations. This punishes the program, and nothing more.

It punishes the players.