Pelosi: Tax Increases For Those Making UNDER $250,000 On The Table

[Patranus]

A new value-added tax (VAT) is "on the table" to help the U.S. address its fiscal liabilities, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said Monday night.

Pelosi, appearing on PBS's "The Charlie Rose Show" asserted that "it's fair to look at" the VAT as part of an overhaul of the nation's tax code.

The Speaker also emphasized that any reworking of the tax code would not result in an increase in taxes on middle-class Americans.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-...ew-tax-is-on-the-table

What kind of idiots does she think the American people are?

If you tax production, do you think companies will
A) Eat those costs
B) Pass those costs onto the consumer

With the economy the way it is, the government should be giving incentives for production no taxing it.

 

[Ausm]

I don't think middle class means people making under 250k /year but I do agree any tax that businesses get will be passed on to everyone who buys their products.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Do you think if the government passed incentives companies would:

A) Pass those savings on to the consumer
B) Take the savings as extra profits on their seven figure salaries

It's time we acknowledged Reaganomics as an utter lie and crutch for exploitation. Trickle down is BS. We have costs in running the country, we must have revenue as well. With nations, revenue is taxes...period. If you don't want to pay taxes, move somewhere else.

I want an end to the coddling personally. I want the government to say "this is your tax, pay it or leave"...then I want any who leave barred from returning or doing any business here ever again. Because the demand for goods/services will remain, someone else will come up to provide them at a lower profit margin. That's what's needed...greatly reduced profits with the savings passed to the consumer.

 

[Fern]

Jeebus, she's an idiot, and a dangerous one at that.

And the Dems here spend their time bashing Sarah Palin who has never been in a national office [shakes head]

Fern

 

[bfdd]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Do you think if the government passed incentives companies would:

A) Pass those savings on to the consumer
B) Take the savings as extra profits on their seven figure salaries

It's time we acknowledged Reaganomics as an utter lie and crutch for exploitation. Trickle down is BS. We have costs in running the country, we must have revenue as well. With nations, revenue is taxes...period. If you don't want to pay taxes, move somewhere else.

I want an end to the coddling personally. I want the government to say "this is your tax, pay it or leave"...then I want any who leave barred from returning or doing any business here ever again. Because the demand for goods/services will remain, someone else will come up to provide them at a lower profit margin. That's what's needed...greatly reduced profits with the savings passed to the consumer.

Yes because everyone is willing to work for free.... Why don't you take a pay cut then? Tell your boss you want him to cut your pay so he can lower costs.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Fern
Jeebus, she's an idiot, and a dangerous one at that.

And the Dems here spend their time bashing Sarah Palin who has never been in a national office [shakes head]

Fern

'A dangerous idiot' in what way?

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
That's what's needed...greatly reduced profits with the savings passed to the consumer.

Funny, I hear this all the time yet some of the companies used as examples like health care or 'big' oil have very slim profit margins compared to other industries.

Lets look at Microsoft. 25% profit margin yet congress isn't talking about "software reform".
(Health care companies run about 3% to 5% profit margin)

I find it funny how even Bill Clinton understood, "its the economy stupid" yet the (liberal) Democrats want to do everything in their power to 'cap' the economic output of this country.

 

[jonks]

No warning for the blatant misrep in the OP title? The article states the exact opposite of what OP wrote. He can disagree in the body, but the title is unassailably not what she said.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Do you think if the government passed incentives companies would:

A) Pass those savings on to the consumer
B) Take the savings as extra profits on their seven figure salaries

It's time we acknowledged Reaganomics as an utter lie and crutch for exploitation. Trickle down is BS. We have costs in running the country, we must have revenue as well. With nations, revenue is taxes...period. If you don't want to pay taxes, move somewhere else.

I want an end to the coddling personally. I want the government to say "this is your tax, pay it or leave"...then I want any who leave barred from returning or doing any business here ever again. Because the demand for goods/services will remain, someone else will come up to provide them at a lower profit margin. That's what's needed...greatly reduced profits with the savings passed to the consumer.

A lot of ambiguities in your post. Businesses won't pass on savings, but then someone will provide them at a lower profit margin?

You may get your wish on those who don't want to pay can leave. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: bfdd

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Do you think if the government passed incentives companies would:

A) Pass those savings on to the consumer
B) Take the savings as extra profits on their seven figure salaries

It's time we acknowledged Reaganomics as an utter lie and crutch for exploitation. Trickle down is BS. We have costs in running the country, we must have revenue as well. With nations, revenue is taxes...period. If you don't want to pay taxes, move somewhere else.

I want an end to the coddling personally. I want the government to say "this is your tax, pay it or leave"...then I want any who leave barred from returning or doing any business here ever again. Because the demand for goods/services will remain, someone else will come up to provide them at a lower profit margin. That's what's needed...greatly reduced profits with the savings passed to the consumer.

Yes because everyone is willing to work for free.... Why don't you take a pay cut then? Tell your boss you want him to cut your pay so he can lower costs.

I've never made 30k a year in my life, I don't have much farther to go down.

Your argument is disgustingly stupid...almost neoconservative levels of ignorance. Yes, the worker making minimum wage taking a pay cut is the same as cutting stock dividends or executive salaries in the 7 and 8 figures. :roll:

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Do you think if the government passed incentives companies would:

A) Pass those savings on to the consumer
B) Take the savings as extra profits on their seven figure salaries

It's time we acknowledged Reaganomics as an utter lie and crutch for exploitation. Trickle down is BS. We have costs in running the country, we must have revenue as well. With nations, revenue is taxes...period. If you don't want to pay taxes, move somewhere else.

I want an end to the coddling personally. I want the government to say "this is your tax, pay it or leave"...then I want any who leave barred from returning or doing any business here ever again. Because the demand for goods/services will remain, someone else will come up to provide them at a lower profit margin. That's what's needed...greatly reduced profits with the savings passed to the consumer.

A lot of ambiguities in your post. Businesses won't pass on savings, but then someone will provide them at a lower profit margin?

You may get your wish on those who don't want to pay can leave. Be careful what you wish for.

If taxation is set at a level that causes some businesses to leave because they won't accept the lower profits (and, btw, I don't think many would actually take $0 over the reduced amount), then there will be a vacuum that would be filled by someone else who is willing to accept the new profit levels. That was my point.

I'll clarify further: in the economy we have passing costs to consumers is no longer viable. Consumers have no more to pay (many can't even pay what it costs now) and credit is maxed for too many. If companies increase the costs, consumers will refuse to pay or will default, crippling the company. The only problem here is that government is so stupid they offer bailouts to the companies rather than let evolution take over and weed out the ones that don't deserve to be in business. Anyway, the point is we need taxes to run the government, and the people can't pay any more...either business/wealthy take the hit, or they get the hell out and let someone else in who'll do it for less.

You have NO idea how much I want them to go. I do my best not to associate with people/entities that exist only for how much profit they can extort.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
That's what's needed...greatly reduced profits with the savings passed to the consumer.

Funny, I hear this all the time yet some of the companies used as examples like health care or 'big' oil have very slim profit margins compared to other industries.

Lets look at Microsoft. 25% profit margin yet congress isn't talking about "software reform".
(Health care companies run about 3% to 5% profit margin)

I find it funny how even Bill Clinton understood, "its the economy stupid" yet the (liberal) Democrats want to do everything in their power to 'cap' the economic output of this country.

Yes, because receiving life saving health care or keeping your home warm in winter is exactly the same as being DX11 compliant to play the new video games. :roll:

 

[waggy]

and anyone that thought we could pay for everything Obama is wanting and has passed without a tax hike is insane.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Do you think if the government passed incentives companies would:

A) Pass those savings on to the consumer
B) Take the savings as extra profits on their seven figure salaries

It's time we acknowledged Reaganomics as an utter lie and crutch for exploitation. Trickle down is BS. We have costs in running the country, we must have revenue as well. With nations, revenue is taxes...period. If you don't want to pay taxes, move somewhere else.

I want an end to the coddling personally. I want the government to say "this is your tax, pay it or leave"...then I want any who leave barred from returning or doing any business here ever again. Because the demand for goods/services will remain, someone else will come up to provide them at a lower profit margin. That's what's needed...greatly reduced profits with the savings passed to the consumer.

A lot of ambiguities in your post. Businesses won't pass on savings, but then someone will provide them at a lower profit margin?

You may get your wish on those who don't want to pay can leave. Be careful what you wish for.

If taxation is set at a level that causes some businesses to leave because they won't accept the lower profits (and, btw, I don't think many would actually take $0 over the reduced amount), then there will be a vacuum that would be filled by someone else who is willing to accept the new profit levels. That was my point.

You have NO idea how much I want them to go. I do my best not to associate with people/entities that exist only for how much profit they can extort.

Seems like a real uphill battle to overthrow the system and mold it into your version of utopia. Have you considered leaving? Sounds easier.

There are still a number of countries that embrace your ideals. Cuba is closest. Like I said, why take on the uphill battle? A quick boat trip and nirvana!

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Do you think if the government passed incentives companies would:

A) Pass those savings on to the consumer
B) Take the savings as extra profits on their seven figure salaries

It's time we acknowledged Reaganomics as an utter lie and crutch for exploitation. Trickle down is BS. We have costs in running the country, we must have revenue as well. With nations, revenue is taxes...period. If you don't want to pay taxes, move somewhere else.

I want an end to the coddling personally. I want the government to say "this is your tax, pay it or leave"...then I want any who leave barred from returning or doing any business here ever again. Because the demand for goods/services will remain, someone else will come up to provide them at a lower profit margin. That's what's needed...greatly reduced profits with the savings passed to the consumer.

A lot of ambiguities in your post. Businesses won't pass on savings, but then someone will provide them at a lower profit margin?

You may get your wish on those who don't want to pay can leave. Be careful what you wish for.

If taxation is set at a level that causes some businesses to leave because they won't accept the lower profits (and, btw, I don't think many would actually take $0 over the reduced amount), then there will be a vacuum that would be filled by someone else who is willing to accept the new profit levels. That was my point.

You have NO idea how much I want them to go. I do my best not to associate with people/entities that exist only for how much profit they can extort.

Seems like a real uphill battle to overthrow the system and mold it into your version of utopia. Have you considered leaving? Sounds easier.

There are still a number of countries that embrace your ideals. Cuba is closest. Like I said, why take on the uphill battle? A quick boat trip and nirvana!

Because:

A) I'm right, and I'm a better person for it than those who act out of self-interest and greed
B) I have an inherited responsibility to act to keep the ideal of America alive, no matter the cost. It's why I vote, why I served in the military, why I spend so many hours each day studying so many different disciplines, etc.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I can't wait for tax induced inflation! VAT is cool because it's a great tax that's obscured along the way. Well we knew we were going to get screwed and that the Dems weren't any better. They just screw us differently. It's come to the point where it's not worth the gas money to vote for any of these leeches.

 

[Patranus]

If the only tax was a VAT or a national sales tax, and the federal government got ride of the income tax, i would be all for it.

After all, isn't the goal to reduce consumption? What better way to reduce consumption than to tax it.

Everyone pays their fair share and pays what they are able to pay. Drug dealer? No problem, if you buy stuff you still pay taxes. Illegal immigrant? No problem, if you buy still you still pay taxes.

 

[shira]

I'm a little confused here: Conservatives for years have been pushing their so-called "Fair Tax," which is essentially a VAT of 30%. To be fair, conservatives want their "Fair Tax" in place of the income tax, which they'd do away with. But if I were a conservative, I'd be behind Pelosi's proposal as a first step toward a "Fair Tax" system.

But what do we see in this thread: Conservative posters are opposed, presumably because its origin is a liberal politician.

So tell me, conservatives, how come a "Fair Tax" won't ruin our economy, yet a "VAT" will be fatal?

 

[spidey07]

One sure fire way to completely kill the economy in a time of need is raise the cost of goods and production. Pelosi is insane.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Patranus

What kind of idiots does she think the American people are?

If you tax production, do you think companies will
A) Eat those costs
B) Pass those costs onto the consumer

With the economy the way it is, the government should be giving incentives for production no taxing it.

they usually pass them on to labor, actually. so yes, they 'eat' the costs.

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
I can't wait for tax induced inflation! VAT is cool because it's a great tax that's obscured along the way. Well we knew we were going to get screwed and that the Dems weren't any better. They just screw us differently. It's come to the point where it's not worth the gas money to vote for any of these leeches.

and that's the reason to vote against VAT, it's hidden. sales tax is at least a line item on the receipt.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
I can't wait for tax induced inflation! VAT is cool because it's a great tax that's obscured along the way. Well we knew we were going to get screwed and that the Dems weren't any better. They just screw us differently. It's come to the point where it's not worth the gas money to vote for any of these leeches.

'Tax induced inflation'? Taxes remove money from the economy, not add to it.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Fern
Jeebus, she's an idiot, and a dangerous one at that.

And the Dems here spend their time bashing Sarah Palin who has never been in a national office [shakes head]

Fern

'A dangerous idiot' in what way?

1. For democrats. The 2010 elections aren't far away and IMO to be talking about a VAT now is stupid.

2. VAT is essentuial a fancy/complicated national sales tax. Obama has promised no tax increase on those making less $250K, a VAT will increase taxes on not only the middle class but the poorer too (VAT is regressive). Any assertions she makes to the contrary are laughable.

3. Implementing a VAT at this time unaviodably means less money for consumer (and other purchases), the last thing our economy needs now.

4. Her ramblings about how not having a VAT puts us a competitive disadvantage is BS.

(I might list more but I gotta go to a meeting now.)

Fern

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Really?
Ok
auto a costs 15k to build. It sells for 18k. A European vat tax pushes up the final cost to 18k to bring the car to market. So without raising the cost of making the car 3k more. Don't believe me? Look at European prices. Companies are forced to raise prices across the board as well as anything else vat touches. The consumer has to pay more for the same goods. That's inflation.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: shira
I'm a little confused here: Conservatives for years have been pushing their so-called "Fair Tax," which is essentially a VAT of 30%. To be fair, conservatives want their "Fair Tax" in place of the income tax, which they'd do away with. But if I were a conservative, I'd be behind Pelosi's proposal as a first step toward a "Fair Tax" system.

But what do we see in this thread: Conservative posters are opposed, presumably because its origin is a liberal politician.

So tell me, conservatives, how come a "Fair Tax" won't ruin our economy, yet a "VAT" will be fatal?

2 mistakes in the above:

1. I'm a conservative (and a tax professional) and I've never supported either a VAT or the Fair Tax (or flat tax). In fact, I've argued here extensively against them. Nor have either ever been supported much by conservatives (or Repub since the two are often much different), even when the Repubs were in control they did not/could not pass these.

2. Implementing a VAT while leaving the present income tax system in existence will NEVER, EVER be a way to phase out the income tax. History has shown if you start the new tax while leaving the old tax system in place, you'll just up with TWO tax systems - they'll NEVER get rid of the old one. If you replace a taxation system, you replace it - not supplement it and go with Washington's promise to later kill off the old system.

Fern

 

[newnameman]

Originally posted by: shira
I'm a little confused here: Conservatives for years have been pushing their so-called "Fair Tax," which is essentially a VAT of 30%. To be fair, conservatives want their "Fair Tax" in place of the income tax, which they'd do away with. But if I were a conservative, I'd be behind Pelosi's proposal as a first step toward a "Fair Tax" system.

But what do we see in this thread: Conservative posters are opposed, presumably because its origin is a liberal politician.

So tell me, conservatives, how come a "Fair Tax" won't ruin our economy, yet a "VAT" will be fatal?

You seriously believe that garbage? You're saying that conservatives should support a VAT without any other corresponding tax decreases, and hope that at some unspecified point in the future Democrats will agree to disband the income tax system?