Pelosi and environmentalists gain more power

[BMW540I6speed]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: winnar111
Not surprising. We knew that the Democrats are far more radical than they led on.

Yeah. They're getting super radical now. It's disgusting.

This whole and trade nonsense is out of this world radical.

So radical that it has been ratified by almost every nation on this planet except the United States.

Every socialist/communist nation, yes.

This is America dammit! We do NOT punish success like that. It's wrong. Well at least we're not supposed to with our freedom. But our freedom is being quickly eradicated by a democrat house/senate.

?Socialism? is defined in the Merriam Webster Dictionary as follows:

?1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods 2 a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state 3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done.?

Barack Obama is not in favor of any of the above.

Anybody to the left of the Republicans is a "socialist" in their paranoiac, fevered ideological vision of normalcy and "real" America. It's as absurd as the rest of their cockeyed ideology.

Of course, the biggest examples of socialism operating in the US are the Pentagon and the Wall Street bailout. If the GOP was serious about combating socialism, they'd push for slashing the Pentagon's budget and if they were serious about conservatism, they'd oppose a standing army as inherently hostile to liberty. They're really not against socialism - they're only against it when it's directed at helping the poor, the weak, and the needy.

Ironically, Jesus qualifies as a socialist and/or a communist - certainly not as a capitalist or a fascist, revered cultural, political, and economic icons of the Right. So, when the brainwashed rails against Obama's "spread the wealth" agenda, I find it highly amusing that supposed Christians get pissed about that idea - I mean, WWJD, right, people? Jesus wasn't a Republican.

Jesus the socialist?

Acts 2:44-45 (King James Version)

44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Acts 4:34-35

34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Not part of todays 21st century Republican Bible?

 

[Genx87]

But but green jobs will pave the way for our future. I know this to be true because the govt told me so!

Seriously though while we strangle our industry with this stuff sending it to china which just moves the smoke stack, but doesnt get rid of it, we complain about losing jobs in our industry.

The envrionmental lobby has the most power it has ever had. I suspect when the democrats get to work there will only be so much the MSM can cover up before the shit hits the fan.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: ZeGermans Work, innovate, produce, reap the rewards.

Work, work, try to advance, have the boss's worthless son get promoted in front of you, work, work, work, come up with an idea, have it stolen from you, work, work, get fired for being gay, starve

(this is what pure capitalism is like. You don't ever advance because the few that are rich do every god damn thing they can to make sure they stay few and rich)

There is no such thing as pure capitalism outside of a book. Nepotism happens everywhere including big govt. Isnt Biden going to try and get a family member to take his seat?

 

[RightIsWrong]

See, BMW, that's where you logic fails....

Jesus wasn't a real Christian!!!

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Harvey
:thumbsup:

We need more restrictions on our economy, because there are still some faint signs of life.

 

[Budmantom]

These leftist radicals will prop up the big three only to bankrupt them with new "green" regulations.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Isnt Biden going to try and get a family member to take his seat?

Flirted with the idea, critcized even with the dem party, dropped.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/w...2008-11-18-biden_N.htm
http://voices.washingtonpost.c..._app.html?nav=rss_blog

And for the record, Beau Biden is currently the Delaware Attorney General, he's not working in a hardware store or something. He's an experienced lawyer and politician. So while the family angle is bitter tasting and should be avoided, he's not some unqualified rube or like, the president of a horse racing association.

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Harvey
:thumbsup:

We need more restrictions on our economy, because there are still some faint signs of life.

Have you been asleep for the last six weeks?

Unregulated greed has caused our economy to crash, and you still think it was caused by "over regulation?"

:clock:

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: Deliximus
Right-wingers really have no say on how to run the economy at this point as they have led it off the cliff and once again, it's the Democrats coming to rescue it. Which party was in power b/w 1920-1932? Republicans and their 'free market'. Which party was in power b/w 1980-1992 when it went to the shitters again? Oh wait, Republicans and their 'free market'. Which party was in power b/w 2000-2008 and now we're in the biggest economic shitter hole since 1930s? Oh yeah, the Republicans and the 'free market'.

Lawl. So dems had nothing to do with the current state of our economy....everybody knows it was those damn 'free market' Republicans. :roll: Tell me...is ignorance truly bliss or is that particular expression just an old wives tale? BTW...I'm glad to hear that the Dems are coming to the rescue...maybe they can actually clean up some of the mess they helped create...the facts of which appear to elude you.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Deliximus
Spidey, F*CK OFF! Don't go calling every other nation that is left of you "socialist/communist'. The current Canadian gov't is under the Conservative party and we are no 'socialist/communist' state. Even China is not a socialist/communist state to the letter of its definition anymore due to its adoption of capitalism in its economic zones. If you go to Shanghai/Beijing/Hong Kong, you wouldn't even notice 'socialism'.

I bust my ass off everyday even though I know there is employment insurance, welfare, etc. That is NOT what i call a 'life' - living off welfare. But it's there for people that fallen on hard times. Doing what is good for others in your country is not RADICIALISM; it's called common sense.

Right-wingers really have no say on how to run the economy at this point as they have led it off the cliff and once again, it's the Democrats coming to rescue it. Which party was in power b/w 1920-1932? Republicans and their 'free market'. Which party was in power b/w 1980-1992 when it went to the shitters again? Oh wait, Republicans and their 'free market'. Which party was in power b/w 2000-2008 and now we're in the biggest economic shitter hole since 1930s? Oh yeah, the Republicans and the 'free market'.

How much has the economy grown since 1980, again? About $10 trillion or so?

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: winnar111
Not surprising. We knew that the Democrats are far more radical than they led on.

Yeah. They're getting super radical now. It's disgusting.

This whole and trade nonsense is out of this world radical.

What has Waxman done that's so radical, or is that just an automatic response for you guys?

I suppose we can start with his wrecking ball plan to cut greenhouse gases to 20% of current emissions by 2050, or his CAFE plan which is currently destroying the Big 3, or the fact that he opposes just about every viable energy technology.

What CAFE plan?

Dingell-berry has successfully stood in the way of increasing CAFE standards for 25 years. ""Overall fuel economy for both cars and light trucks in the U.S. market reached its highest level in 1987"" and has gone downhill since then. The rules approved in 2007 have so many holes in them they have already been overturned in Court.

If you truly want to give the finger to the Middle East you would support the doubling of CAFE standards like that of the 1970s.

But you are too big a thread-crapping obfuscating douche troll for that ...

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: winnar111
Not surprising. We knew that the Democrats are far more radical than they led on.

How ironic - spidey calling Waxman a 'wacko', you calling him a 'radical' - attacks which fit you, not Waxman. Waxman is one of the best members of Congress.

I've praised his oversight work for years. I suspect you are completely ignorant of it.

Why do you hate the envionment so much?

I'm glad to see someone so good get this position.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: winnar111
Not surprising. We knew that the Democrats are far more radical than they led on.

How ironic - spidey calling Waxman a 'wacko', you calling him a 'radical' - attacks which fit you, not Waxman. Waxman is one of the best members of Congress.

I've praised his oversight work for years. I suspect you are completely ignorant of it.

Why do you hate the envionment so much?

I'm glad to see someone so good get this position.

lulz, he's about as bad a Pelosi. A completely insane, anti-America wacko. Have you SEEN some of the crap he comes up with?

Cap and trade!
Cap and trade!
Destroy American business!!!

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Rainsford

What has Waxman done that's so radical, or is that just an automatic response for you guys?

I suppose we can start with his wrecking ball plan to cut greenhouse gases to 20% of current emissions by 2050, or his CAFE plan which is currently destroying the Big 3, or the fact that he opposes just about every viable energy technology.

As usual, loozar111 is pissing and moaning about all the good people doing all the right things.

Originally posted by: spidey07

Anti-capitalism is what he has done that is so radical.

You guys may love to call me a right winger but every political test I've ever taken puts me square in the "capitalist" arena. I guess the pundits were right - capitalism doesn't last long as they change to socialism, then to populace complacency. I weep for my country, it really is sad what is happening.

Unregulated capitalism, without oversight by the elected representatives of the best interest of all of our people, is like highways without licensing drivers, no speed limits to maintain safety and no law enforcement to patrol the highways to ensure no one is engaged in unsafe driving. You're living in a bad dream if you believe that some who acquire wealth and power in business won't use it to their own advatage, even if it is detrimental to the worst interests of others, including the nation as a whole.

We're living through an economic crisis that is the direct result of our criminal government abandoning such oversight as mandated in the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution "... to establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity..."
.

Originally posted by: spidey07

lulz, he's about as bad a Pelosi. A completely insane, anti-America wacko. Have you SEEN some of the crap he comes up with?

Waxman is a genuine American hero. "A completely insane, anti-America wacko" bettere describes your Traitor In Chief and every member of his criminal cabal of traitors, murderers, torturers, war criminals, war profiteers and wealthy Wall Street robber baron contributors.

It also describes all of the lame Bushwhacko supporters. especially those like you who still pimp their treachery, even after the fact of they squandered thousands of American lives, trillions of dollars on their war of LIES and trillions more dollars in the collapse of their over-inflated economy.

Along the way, in their denial, they also squandered more money and lost years that could have, and should have, been spent addressing the impending environmental catastrophy they finally, grudgingly, are beginning to acknowledge.

The two strongest possiblities are, either you're one of the criminals, or you're a moron. Which is it? :roll:

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: winnar111
Not surprising. We knew that the Democrats are far more radical than they led on.

Yeah. They're getting super radical now. It's disgusting.

This whole and trade nonsense is out of this world radical.

What has Waxman done that's so radical, or is that just an automatic response for you guys?

I suppose we can start with his wrecking ball plan to cut greenhouse gases to 20% of current emissions by 2050, or his CAFE plan which is currently destroying the Big 3, or the fact that he opposes just about every viable energy technology.

What CAFE plan?

Dingell-berry has successfully stood in the way of increasing CAFE standards for 25 years. ""Overall fuel economy for both cars and light trucks in the U.S. market reached its highest level in 1987"" and has gone downhill since then. The rules approved in 2007 have so many holes in them they have already been overturned in Court.

If you truly want to give the finger to the Middle East you would support the doubling of CAFE standards like that of the 1970s.

But you are too big a thread-crapping obfuscating douche troll for that ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...e_Average_Fuel_Economy

in December 2007 Congress passed the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 which will affect CAFE standards of both cars and trucks and additionally work trucks and medium and heavy duty on-highway vehicles. This standard requires ratable increases in fuel efficiency during the model years 2011 to 2020 reaching 35 mpg in 2020 for the total fleet of passenger and non-passenger automobiles. In the years 2021 to 2030 the standards requires MPG to be the "maximum feasible" fuel economy.

 

[MovingTarget]

CAFE destroying the auto industry? Hardly. If we had updated our CAFE regulations earlier over the objections of Detroit, don't you think that they would be in a better position right now? With increased fuel economy, they would've been better able to compete with the imports, especially when the price of fuel skyrocketed recently. If we had increased it more during the 80's/90's, they would have been better able to compete as they would've made those changes when they were better able to (i.e. better capitalized).

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
CAFE destroying the auto industry? Hardly. If we had updated our CAFE regulations earlier over the objections of Detroit, don't you think that they would be in a better position right now? With increased fuel economy, they would've been better able to compete with the imports, especially when the price of fuel skyrocketed recently. If we had increased it more during the 80's/90's, they would have been better able to compete as they would've made those changes when they were better able to (i.e. better capitalized).

Yup. Toyota is #1(or soon to be) because of their "Green" reputation. The Big 3 have been asleep at the wheel and dragging their feet. How many times are they going to take a kick to the Nads before realizing they need to turn?

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: umbrella39
You really have gone off the deep end. GFY.

Turn about is fair play. P&N has been trumpeting this very mantra for a long time and now that the shoe is on the other foot you think it is me who is off the deep end.

Interesting.

Have you noticed that the economy was thriving until the Dems got the house and the Senate in '06? And with a dem president elect, then the ish REALLY hit the fan?

hmmmmmmmmm

Yes, imo you are quickly losing your mind. Sorry but I don't remember this thriving economy you speak of in 06, 05, 04, 03, 02, or 01. The recession that started in March of 2001 never ended here in Michigan. It only got worse and now the rest of the country is finally feeling it, too. There was NO thriving economy in 2006 but if you want to pretend there was, I can't stop you.

It takes the perfect storm to kill the entire economy and trying to blame the Dems over the GOP is laughable. If things get worse by 2010, I'll jump right on the bandwagon you are already chauffeuring 2 months before Obama even takes office... but just like I was in 2000, I am willing to give the Dems a shot.

If that day comes, I have to ask myself if we should be angrier with the people that fucked up the GREAT economy they inherited or with the people who couldn't fix an inherited clusterfuck?

I was not around these parts until a couple of years into the GOP storm, but from what I have heard from the people who have been here since 2000, this place was NOT some left-wing jerkfest when Bush took office or for several years into his presidency. The anger most Americans in this country feel for the GOP and Bush in particular is very, very well deserved. Only idiots or blind partisan fools see things differently.

Do YOU remember the thriving economy before the GOP took complete control in 2001? Probably not if you are trying to convince us that 2006 even closely resembled 2000.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Squisher

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

What CAFE plan?

Dingell-berry has successfully stood in the way of increasing CAFE standards for 25 years. ""Overall fuel economy for both cars and light trucks in the U.S. market reached its highest level in 1987"" and has gone downhill since then. The rules approved in 2007 have so many holes in them they have already been overturned in Court.

If you truly want to give the finger to the Middle East you would support the doubling of CAFE standards like that of the 1970s.

But you are too big a thread-crapping obfuscating douche troll for that ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...e_Average_Fuel_Economy

in December 2007 Congress passed the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 which will affect CAFE standards of both cars and trucks and additionally work trucks and medium and heavy duty on-highway vehicles. This standard requires ratable increases in fuel efficiency during the model years 2011 to 2020 reaching 35 mpg in 2020 for the total fleet of passenger and non-passenger automobiles. In the years 2021 to 2030 the standards requires MPG to be the "maximum feasible" fuel economy.

If you read further down your wiki you will see the point I bolded above. The 2007 act authorized the use of something called the 'footprint' model to calculate mileage standards for trucks which has already been declared illegal by the Courts. Additionally IIRC, SUVs are considered 'light trucks' - even the 'smaller' varieties. There are serious loopholes in the declarations of total 'fleet' and what exactly constitutes 'non-passenger' autos ...

From your wiki:

It is not clear how the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals case will interact with these new rules. The new rules also introduce the "Footprint" model for cars as well as trucks, where if a manufacturer makes more large cars and trucks they will be allowed to meet a lower standard for fuel economy. This means that an overall fuel efficiency for a particular manufacturer nor the fleet as a whole cannot be predicted with certainly since it will depend on the actual product mix manufactured.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
CAFE destroying the auto industry? Hardly. If we had updated our CAFE regulations earlier over the objections of Detroit, don't you think that they would be in a better position right now? With increased fuel economy, they would've been better able to compete with the imports, especially when the price of fuel skyrocketed recently. If we had increased it more during the 80's/90's, they would have been better able to compete as they would've made those changes when they were better able to (i.e. better capitalized).

Not at all, given that Detroit doesn't make money on small cars.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
It takes the perfect storm to kill the entire economy and trying to blame the Dems over the GOP is laughable. If things get worse by 2010, I'll jump right on the bandwagon you are already chauffeuring 2 months before Obama even takes office... but just like I was in 2000, I am willing to give the Dems a shot.

If that day comes, I have to ask myself if we should be angrier with the people that fucked up the GREAT economy they inherited or with the people who couldn't fix an inherited clusterfuck?

I was not around these parts until a couple of years into the GOP storm, but from what I have heard from the people who have been here since 2000, this place was NOT some left-wing jerkfest when Bush took office or for several years into his presidency. The anger most Americans in this country feel for the GOP and Bush in particular is very, very well deserved. Only idiots or blind partisan fools see things differently.

Do YOU remember the thriving economy before the GOP took complete control in 2001? Probably not if you are trying to convince us that 2006 even closely resembled 2000.

I guess you completely glossed over Bush's inherited recession in 2001 from the Clinton years.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: winnar111
Not surprising. We knew that the Democrats are far more radical than they led on.

Yeah. They're getting super radical now. It's disgusting.

This whole and trade nonsense is out of this world radical.

What has Waxman done that's so radical, or is that just an automatic response for you guys?

I suppose we can start with his wrecking ball plan to cut greenhouse gases to 20% of current emissions by 2050, or his CAFE plan which is currently destroying the Big 3, or the fact that he opposes just about every viable energy technology.

What CAFE plan?

Dingell-berry has successfully stood in the way of increasing CAFE standards for 25 years. ""Overall fuel economy for both cars and light trucks in the U.S. market reached its highest level in 1987"" and has gone downhill since then. The rules approved in 2007 have so many holes in them they have already been overturned in Court.

If you truly want to give the finger to the Middle East you would support the doubling of CAFE standards like that of the 1970s.

But you are too big a thread-crapping obfuscating douche troll for that ...

CAFE standards don't give the finger to the Middle east. They give the finger to the American auto company and to the American consumer who are stuck in tiny no leg room cars while Pelosi and Gore strut around in their SUVs.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: umbrella39
It takes the perfect storm to kill the entire economy and trying to blame the Dems over the GOP is laughable. If things get worse by 2010, I'll jump right on the bandwagon you are already chauffeuring 2 months before Obama even takes office... but just like I was in 2000, I am willing to give the Dems a shot.

If that day comes, I have to ask myself if we should be angrier with the people that fucked up the GREAT economy they inherited or with the people who couldn't fix an inherited clusterfuck?

I was not around these parts until a couple of years into the GOP storm, but from what I have heard from the people who have been here since 2000, this place was NOT some left-wing jerkfest when Bush took office or for several years into his presidency. The anger most Americans in this country feel for the GOP and Bush in particular is very, very well deserved. Only idiots or blind partisan fools see things differently.

Do YOU remember the thriving economy before the GOP took complete control in 2001? Probably not if you are trying to convince us that 2006 even closely resembled 2000.

I guess you completely glossed over Bush's inherited recession in 2001 from the Clinton years.

you mean the mildest recession in our lifetimes recession?