PCI-Express Stupidity!

[mnarciso]

Ok...

I am very very stupid... or maybe I rushed through the installation thinking that PCI-E was just like AGP only faster... man was I wrong by a cord! I had posted earlier about my AOpen 6600GT's frying well heres probably why...

Exhibit A (The PCI-E ATX-3 Cord)

Exhibit B (Why didn't I see that red connector?)

Exhibit C (Hmmm maybe I should have connected this first before running Halo at 1280 x 1024 HQ Settings)

Ok I just wanted to post this to all people who are new this whole PCI-E thing because I went through hell just to find out that I forgot to connect a cord and there will be a few people out there who will do exactly what I did and complain their board is frying cards. Shuttle didn't even tell me about this connector and AOpen didn't know jack so...

I'm spreading my new found knowledge. Ok so maybe I should have known about this at first but this is a lesson learned to read the damn manual on new things you don't know about hehe. I hope this helps other people who might be having the same problem or future people who want to upgrade.

So the final exhibit...

Exhibit D (Don't Be Stupid Like This Guy)

Yes thats me now stop laughing...

Thanks for all the help to the people in the previous post everything works great now. I also found that PC Club carries eVGA which looks way better cosmetically on the card then the AOpen. Cheers!

Previous Post: AOpen 6600GT Total Crap?

 

[Rage187]

thx for sharing!

 

[Killrose]

so you have to use that exact cable and can't use one from the PSU?

 

[df96817]

Hey thanks for the heads up. I have an 8400 and will be getting a 6600 GT tomorrow so I'll be on the look out for that.

BTW, did that cord come with the video card?

 

[gsellis]

Another question... Is it covered in the installation guide? I would hate this to be the learning example for RTFM

 

[Smonkey]

Glad to hear you got it fixed!

Fun being a beta tester? : )

-Tom

 

[James3shin]

;beer:

 

[BW86]

:thumbsup: nice :camera:'s

 

[LTC8K6]

Someone posted here a while back about having bought an OEM card that didn't come with the power cord. He was trying to buy it some where.

 

[Pete]

That's weird. So is that MB cord supposed to compensate for not having a more current PSU MB connector, or what?

Good of you to share, pics and all. I wonder if Dell MBs have the same (strange) plug?

Edit: I'm still not sure how you can "fry" a video card by underpowering it, though.

 

[LTC8K6]

If only PCI-E were actually faster than AGP, you might be less frustrated......

Well, I guess it's faster if you've got the bucks for SLI.

 

[LTC8K6]

Well, by not using the cord, you could be forcing the card to draw power through circuits that were not meant to handle it, I guess. So, in a sense, you could actually be overpowering part of the card by not using the cord.

That would still be a poor card design, though. It should just not power up fully if the cord is not connected, and give an error message.

 

[mnarciso]

That PCI-E cord came with my Shuttle, I didn't notice it because it looked like it was just a Floppy Power Connector. Also the manual INSTALLATION manual did not say anything about it. However, in the MOTHERBOARD INFO manual it tells you to connect all three if you plan on using a PCI-E card. I'm not sure if this cord needs to be plugged in if your using say an X800 XT or 6800 GT because both those cards have their own external power source on the cards. So if you have any of those cards please just read your manual because I'm not sure how those work.

All I know is that for the "unpowered" cards that don't have connectors on them require that the PCI-E slot is properly powered by the PSU. The problem was with my 6600GT when I didn't put that cord in was that without the cord the power wasn't being regulated and all power was shot straight to the PCI-E slot and after 10 minutes boom... fryed. After the card fryed nvidia brings up a message saying that there isn't enough power going to the card. Well I thought it was the other way around that there was too much power going to the card and that it needed to be regulated.

That would still be a poor card design, though. It should just not power up fully if the cord is not connected, and give an error message.

I totally agree! I dived right into installation without putting that cord on. Things ran smoothly and so great that it was hard to believe I missed anything. The Shuttle manuals are kinda iffy... at least the Installation manual was. There was no reference to that connector or the cord but yet the cord is provided. I believe the installation manual was for people who are just using the internal graphics card which is quite decent I might add, was playing Halo on 800 x 600 High Quality with pretty decent FPS.

AOpen totally screwed up too. If you go to their message boards everyone fried their PCI-E 6600GT and AOpen is like "derrr what?". There is no mention of needing a power source for the card. Call them up and ask them for the ratings on the card like how much power it consumes etc. and you'll get "Sorry sir, dis card is too new we don't know anything abou it..."

so you have to use that exact cable and can't use one from the PSU?

Its not part of the PSU even though I think in the future they will start making the PSU properly with the cord. The PSU I have is originally built before PCI-E and to compensate they provided an adapter to. I'm not sure if every motherboard has that EXACT cable, I just know that the cable was needed to power the slot on my board.

I'm sure MB manufacturers are putting cords in their motherboards, until we see PCI-E Ready PSU's which I believe I thought I read something about that.

BTW, did that cord come with the video card?

No it didn't come with it, which leaves me to believe that this cord might be different on other motherboards please keep your heads up.

Another question... Is it covered in the installation guide? I would hate this to be the learning example for RTFM

It pretty much almost was an RTFM lesson however, you'd think they would be more cautious about letting the user know about this new cord, or even have the video card provide some kind of warning.

Good of you to share, pics and all. I wonder if Dell MBs have the same (strange) plug?

I dunno have someone take pics of their 8400 MB! I'll see if I can find a manual on it to see if they have an ATX-3 connector too.

Glad I could help, just giving a heads up because this is brand new technology and someones gotta do the hardware frying right?

 

[nickweaver]

Unfortunatly, shuttle's manual for both their PCI-E SFF systems are not that comprehensive on the ATX-3 power connector, compared with the ATX1 and 2 connectors.


Question, was the connector NOT connected from the factory?

THanks for the heads up, before I put a PCI-E graphics card into my new SB81P.

 

[mnarciso]

Question, was the connector NOT connected from the factory?

The connector was not on the board, I searched for 15 minutes inside the case looking for that wire when I finally realized it needed a third ATX connection. Shuttle installed almost every connector except this one. You will find the connector in a seperate bag probably with the IDE cables and floppy cable.

I at first thought it was connected to the PSU but it wasn't. Good luck! Becareful, installing things in your shuttle if its your first one then its amazing to see how everything fits but it fits pretty close together so take more caution when putting in components and wiring thigns together.

 

[Concillian]

My take on this:

- AOpen is not to blame at all. In all likelihood their card adheres to the PCI-e specs.
- The PCI-e specs require more power to be transmitted through the 16x bus than AGP 8x did.
- Shuttle didn't feel like designing a board that would actually handle that proper amount of PCI-e power through the motherboard from where the power is to where the PCI-e slot is, so they half-assed it with that stupid connector thingy.

I say if you have any problems with your hardware you should be talking to Shuttle. They deserve to get some serious flak for that mickey mouse PCI-e implementation.

I wouldn't be feeling stupid if I were you, who would expect to have to connect extra power to the motherboard?

 

[mnarciso]

I know what you mean, i totally agree with you. Why would Shuttle install a PCI-E slot connect every required ATX connector and not warn about the 3rd ATX especially since this is new tech. but vaguely speak about it in their manuals is unbelievable. I really felt like I was stupid for missing it but I think they really should have put some kind of warning.

I remember when I got my ATI card that required a external connector. They put on a red label to connect a the psu to the card before powering on.

I would have thought shuttle would be more professional about that. I don't know how other mb manufactures do this.

 

[Marsumane]

Wow! I probably would have done the same thing! Has this even been mentioned on review sites? Maybe i just overlooked it. Thats horrible that it will work and appear to be alive, and then just die like that on u. I mean, what if u did connect it and your cord was bad? Or the cable wasnt in all the way? Wow, this is my biggest complaint about pci express now.

 

[Elvis2]

Ahhhh.... bleeding edge technology. gotta love it . thanks for the heads up.

 

[Concillian]

Originally posted by: Marsumane
Wow, this is my biggest complaint about pci express now.

This is NOT typical of PCI-e. This is the way Shuttle chose to get the extra power to PCI-e on this particular motherboard. Most PCI-e motherboards will not have this connector.

 

[mnarciso]

ahhh ok yeah i kinda thought that it wasn't the same for all boards but hey at least this is a warning to anyone who wants to switch to PCI-E to just look out for stuff like this =)

 

[Pete]

Looking at pics of the upcoming nForce 4 PCIe MBs, at least one has a power connector (albeit a more obvious 4-pin molex) for the PEG (PCI Express for Graphics, aka PCIe x16) slot. So apparently not everyone can or is willing to draw power through the whole MB to the PEG slot. I'm guessing this depends on part placement on the MB, and probably most specifically, about the placement of the 20-/24-pin power connector: too far from the PEG slot, and it may not be feasible to transfer power b/w the two locations.

 

[mnarciso]

Well I got my eVGA 6600GT 128 MB and everything is working perfectly now.

Bench: 3DMark03
Shuttle Case: SB83G5
CPU: Pentium 3.4E Ghz D0 Stepping (stock speed)
RAM: TwinX 1 Gb Corsair 2700LL
HD: Western Digital Raptor 36 Gb 10,000 RPM
SOUND: Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Gamer
VIDEO: eVGA 6600GT 128 MB
Stock Drivers

Score: 8080!!!

I bought this card for 200... thats just like wrong getting this score for so little money. I am 100% satisfied customer! Making the switch to PCI-E was definitely worth every penny.

Anyone who has the last gen cards and are thinking about switching and upgrading I would totally recommend switching if you want the most bang for your buck.

Well thats all for this thread =)! Good luck to anyone pursueing PCI-E.

 

[Rdavido]

I too have the Aopen 6600GT. I popped into my brand new system yesterday I played Rome: TW for 30 minutes - no problems. The problem came when I ran 3dMark03 and I got to test 3. The screen went black, computer restarted and I got an error - "No VGA Signal".

I had to clear the CMOS in order to regain signal and when Windows came back, I had artifacts in 3D mode ONLY! 2D worked fine. I then began my series of testing:

I first installed Nvidia's drivers from their site. Since they do no support the 6600GT as of yet, it said unknown VGA device in hardware list. When I went to test my 3D, the artifacts went away. I began to be susipicous of a driver problem? I then installed some beta drivers by nvidia and BOOM I got artifacts in both 2D and 3D.

For now, I am using the integrated VGA on my MSI 915GM-FR motherboard. I did not find a connector on my board that I could hook the floppy drive connector into. I am also running a 20pin into 24pin (standard ATX 350W PSU).

I believe that this card (Aopen) does have some faulty engineering behind it - per the messages I have view all over the net (particularily Aopen's forums).

Today I ordered a Chaintec 6600GT in hopes of it fixing my problems. People say this card works very well. If anyone has this card and DOES HAVE the 20-pin connector, let me know your resutls.

 

[Ahill]

Thanks for the post. i am buying a 6600 gt and if there is a way to fry it I will find a way. I always do...