PCI-E 2.0 VGA Card on PCI-E 1.0 Platform

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Biomorphic

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Jul 6, 2007
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I have a 8800 GTS 320 MB VGA card installed on a Gigabyte GA-965P-DS4 (Rev. 3.3) motherboard equipped with a P965 northbridge and an ICH8R Southbridge. Both hardware are of the PCI-E 1.0 generation.

Now, I have decided to replace the 8800 GTS 320 MB with a HD 4870 1 GB. The latter conforms to the PCI-E 2.0 specification and I was wondering whether it will be fully compatible with my Gigabyte GA-965P-DS4 (Rev. 3.3) motherboard? Also, could the HD 4870 1 GB result in a decreased performance when installed on my existing platform compared to another one of the PCI-E 2.0 generation?
 
joutlaw

joutlaw

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Feb 18, 2008
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I'm wondering about this too.

I have a GA-P965-DS3. I'm not sure if it's 1.0 or 2.0. Where could I find that information?
 
Blazer7

Blazer7

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Jun 26, 2007
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All 965 boards are PCI-E 1.0. And yes, you can use a PCI-E 2.0 card on them. The penalty for running a PCI-E 2 card on a PCI-E 1 board is negligible. I'm running an 8800GTS 512 (G92) PCI-E 2 card on a GA-N680SLI-DQ6 PCI-E 1.0 mobo. I've even tried 2 of those in SLI for a while. No problems there.
 
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Biomorphic

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Originally posted by: Blazer7
All 965 boards are PCI-E 1.0. And yes, you can use a PCI-E 2.0 card on them. The penalty for running a PCI-E 2 card on a PCI-E 1 board is negligible. I'm running an 8800GTS 512 (G92) PCI-E 2 card on a GA-N680SLI-DQ6 PCI-E 1.0 mobo. I've even tried 2 of those in SLI for a while. No problems there.
Click to expand...

How much is that negligibility in terms of performance?
 
error8

error8

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Nov 28, 2007
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Originally posted by: Blazer7
All 965 boards are PCI-E 1.0. And yes, you can use a PCI-E 2.0 card on them. The penalty for running a PCI-E 2 card on a PCI-E 1 board is negligible. I'm running an 8800GTS 512 (G92) PCI-E 2 card on a GA-N680SLI-DQ6 PCI-E 1.0 mobo. I've even tried 2 of those in SLI for a while. No problems there.
Click to expand...

Of course there are no problems there, because your G92 GTS is not able to fill the whole bandwidth of the Pci express 1.0 slot.

With the 4870 1gb, there is however a performance penalty, but it's, like you've said, negligible, maybe up to 10% in some games, at particular resolutions and settings.

Apoppin made some tests about this situation using a 4870. Maybe you can give him a PM, OP, to ask for the results.
 
Blazer7

Blazer7

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Jun 26, 2007
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We're talking something like 1-3%. AFAIK even the latest cards from ATI and nV do not need more than the 2.5 GT/s that the PCI-E 1.x can provide.

*** edit ***

I don't have much experience with more advanced cards than mine so it is possible that error8 is right about that 10% although I don't think that it's that bad.
 
error8

error8

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Nov 28, 2007
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Originally posted by: Blazer7
AFAIK even the latest cards from ATI and nV do not need more than the 2.5 GT/s that the PCI-E 1.x can provide.
Click to expand...

4870X2 and GTX 295 need more then what the PCI-E 1.1 can provide.
 
Blazer7

Blazer7

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Jun 26, 2007
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Of course both the 4870X2 and the GTX295 are not exactly single cards. They are CF/SLI in a card. These combos will most definitely need more bandwidth but I believe that the 4890/GTX285 should still run ok on a PCI-E 1.0 mobo.
 
error8

error8

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Nov 28, 2007
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Originally posted by: Blazer7

I don't have much experience with more advanced cards than mine so it is possible that error8 is right about that 10% although I don't think that it's that bad.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, the 10% is also taken out from my *caugh* ass :laugh:. It might be lower then that, but that's what I remember from something I read long time ago.

At these single gpu cards, the difference is small enough that I don't think you can spot it just by gaming. You have to make extensive benchmarks to see it.
At the dual gpu monsters, the bandwidth available on PCI-E 1.X slot it's surely not enough and it can greatly reduce performance.
 
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Biomorphic

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Jul 6, 2007
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Originally posted by: error8
Originally posted by: Blazer7
All 965 boards are PCI-E 1.0. And yes, you can use a PCI-E 2.0 card on them. The penalty for running a PCI-E 2 card on a PCI-E 1 board is negligible. I'm running an 8800GTS 512 (G92) PCI-E 2 card on a GA-N680SLI-DQ6 PCI-E 1.0 mobo. I've even tried 2 of those in SLI for a while. No problems there.
Click to expand...

Of course there are no problems there, because your G92 GTS is not able to fill the whole bandwidth of the Pci express 1.0 slot.

With the 4870 1gb, there is however a performance penalty, but it's, like you've said, negligible, maybe up to 10% in some games, at particular resolutions and settings.

Apoppin made some tests about this situation using a 4870. Maybe you can give him a PM, OP, to ask for the results.
Click to expand...

Thank you for refering me to apoppin, error8. The answers to my questions are found at http://alienbabeltech.com/main/?p=2249&all=1 and that too, backed with extensive testing.

I'm happy that I chose the HD 4870 1GB over the Nvidia competing VGA card because the results are almost the same on PCI-E 1.0 and 2.0 platforms.

On the other hand, buyers of Nvidia PCI-E 2.0 VGA cards will be more comfortable with PCI-E 2.0 motherboards.
 
cmdrdredd

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
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Originally posted by: Blazer7
Of course both the 4870X2 and the GTX295 are not exactly single cards. They are CF/SLI in a card. These combos will most definitely need more bandwidth but I believe that the 4890/GTX285 should still run ok on a PCI-E 1.0 mobo.
Click to expand...

I have benchmarks that are pretty much in line with people that use PCIe 2.0 Motherboards. I don't feel like I'm losing anything with my GTX295 on an Abit IP35-Pro
 
C

Cheex

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Jul 18, 2006
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The results speak for themselves. It is not in any doubt really that PCIe 1.0 performs almost identically with PCIe 2.0 and users of such boards shouldn't be 'tricked' into upgrading just to have PCIe 2.0 support. :D
 
apoppin

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
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alienbabeltech.com
But an X2 or a 295 is gonna be really slowed by that 1.1 spec

it is not balanced .. sure it is "doable" and you can play your games OK; but the performance starts to slow with a GTX280 on a 1.1 vs a 2.0 MB
 
cbn

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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At what point does a single modern Video card stress the bandwith of a PCI-E 1.0 Slot?

Is there anyway to look up data transfer rates at Nvidia or ATI?
 
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Biomorphic

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Jul 6, 2007
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I now have a huge problem. I've purchased a Sapphire Radeon HD 4870 1 GB Toxic Edition as replacement for my GeForce 8800 GTS 320 MB and I'm not having any display on my Asus MM17D LCD monitor with the new graphics card.

At first, I thought it may be that my PSU (CoolerMaster eXtreme Power 550W) is not providing enough power and I've replaced it with a Gigabyte Superb 720W but I still can't get any display on my monitor.

Yeah, the monitor is working fine with the GeForce 8800 GTS 320 MB on my actual system and the Sapphire Radeon HD 4870 1 GB Toxic Edition too is working fine when tested on another PCI-E 1.0 motherboard.
 
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Biomorphic

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Jul 6, 2007
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Well, I think I've figured it out but still, it sounds very weird. The problem seems to be with my Asus MM17D LCD. When I plug another monitor with the Sapphire Radeon HD 4870 1 GB Toxic Edition it works flawlessly.

However, when I plug the monitor with any other graphics card it works without any issues. :confused:
 
Blazer7

Blazer7

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Jun 26, 2007
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I did some searching and it seems that your board should be ok even for a crossfire setup with 2 4870 cards (Crossfire compatibility chart) and since you've already confirmed that your card is ok you should start looking at other things.

For starters, error8 is right about the BIOS. You should also check that you have the latest Chipset/VGA drivers installed. Other things that you could check is your video cable and the refresh rate of your card. It would also help to post some details about your rig.
 
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Biomorphic

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Jul 6, 2007
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I've replaced my Asus MM17D with a LG W1943S and everything is fine now. May be there was a problem with my previous monitor. However, I still can't figure out how did it work flawlessly with other GPUs and not with the Sapphire Radeon HD 4870 1 GB Toxic Edition.

I don't think it was a driver issue at all because I couldn't get a display at system boot up itself. As for the motherboard and GPU BIOS, both were updated to the latest ones.

Anyway, I will carry out some benchmarking and compare it to appopin's results at http://alienbabeltech.com/main/?p=2249&all=1 soon.
 
cbn

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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Originally posted by: Blazer7
I did some searching and it seems that your board should be ok even for a crossfire setup with 2 4870 cards (Crossfire compatibility chart) and since you've already confirmed that your card is ok you should start looking at other things.

For starters, error8 is right about the BIOS. You should also check that you have the latest Chipset/VGA drivers installed. Other things that you could check is your video cable and the refresh rate of your card. It would also help to post some details about your rig.
Click to expand...

That list is for compatibility with the NB right? But does that list take into consideration physical limitations of the PCI-E slot itself.

I mention this because some articles have shown poor results for HD4850x2 when it is used in a PCI-E 1.0 slot.
 
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