yes, that's right. Apple offered no upgrade price for 10.2. You can't buy an upgrade from 10.1 to 10.2 like you can from Win 98 to Win Xp. You have to pay full price.
imgod2u you defently punked dejitaru 
But pretty much i agree with you and many others macs just plain suck. To the software and the hardware and low performance doesnt make that $2500-5000 per system a smart buy IMHO Ive talked to many mac users and all of them say how much faster there graphic software is on a mac compared to a PC. Well look at even the new $5000 dual 1.25GHz G4s, still slower then a single P4 2.53GHz dell machine:
Simple Animation:
Mac Dual 1.0GHz ------ 0:16
Mac Dual 1.25GHz ---- 0:14
Dell P4 2.53GHz ------- 0:10 *
Video Composite:
Mac Dual 1.0GHz ------ 1:51
Mac Dual 1.25GHz ---- 1:25
Dell P4 2.53GHz ------- 1:12 *
Data Project:
Mac Dual 1.0GHz ------ 4:53
Mac Dual 1.25GHz ---- 3:47
Dell P4 2.53GHz ------- 3:01 *
Gambler:
Mac Dual 1.0GHz ------ 0:55
Mac Dual 1.25GHz ---- 0:43
Dell P4 2.53GHz ------- 0:32 *
Source Shapes:
Mac Dual 1.0GHz ------ 9:21
Mac Dual 1.25GHz ---- 7:06
Dell P4 2.53GHz ------- 5:54 *
Virtual Set:
Mac Dual 1.0GHz ------ 11:57
Mac Dual 1.25GHz ---- 8:15 *
Dell P4 2.53GHz ------- 8:42
Well out of the 6 tests the P4 beat it 5 times, just think how much faster a 2.8Ghz let alone a new 2.66Ghz p4 will stand against the new Dual G4s @ 1.25GHz with DDR333. I for one was going to invest in a duel mac system, after reading about how false there claims are of being the fastest photoshop platform, i decided to start up a P4 system and not waste my money on such a piece of garbage Thats my input
SSXeon
But pretty much i agree with you and many others macs just plain suck. To the software and the hardware and low performance doesnt make that $2500-5000 per system a smart buy IMHO Ive talked to many mac users and all of them say how much faster there graphic software is on a mac compared to a PC. Well look at even the new $5000 dual 1.25GHz G4s, still slower then a single P4 2.53GHz dell machine:Simple Animation:
Mac Dual 1.0GHz ------ 0:16
Mac Dual 1.25GHz ---- 0:14
Dell P4 2.53GHz ------- 0:10 *
Video Composite:
Mac Dual 1.0GHz ------ 1:51
Mac Dual 1.25GHz ---- 1:25
Dell P4 2.53GHz ------- 1:12 *
Data Project:
Mac Dual 1.0GHz ------ 4:53
Mac Dual 1.25GHz ---- 3:47
Dell P4 2.53GHz ------- 3:01 *
Gambler:
Mac Dual 1.0GHz ------ 0:55
Mac Dual 1.25GHz ---- 0:43
Dell P4 2.53GHz ------- 0:32 *
Source Shapes:
Mac Dual 1.0GHz ------ 9:21
Mac Dual 1.25GHz ---- 7:06
Dell P4 2.53GHz ------- 5:54 *
Virtual Set:
Mac Dual 1.0GHz ------ 11:57
Mac Dual 1.25GHz ---- 8:15 *
Dell P4 2.53GHz ------- 8:42
Well out of the 6 tests the P4 beat it 5 times, just think how much faster a 2.8Ghz let alone a new 2.66Ghz p4 will stand against the new Dual G4s @ 1.25GHz with DDR333. I for one was going to invest in a duel mac system, after reading about how false there claims are of being the fastest photoshop platform, i decided to start up a P4 system and not waste my money on such a piece of garbage
Thats my input SSXeon
Language and "subtle" insults aside, I totally agree with SSXeon5. The Macs just cannot compete right now. If they get over their "MHz doesn't matter" attitude and decide to drastically upgrade the speed of their processors, it could be a different story; it could be.....................! We probably will never know because of their "attitude".
This discussion is pointless. The very title of this thread, "...which one is better?" already shows that the nature of the comparison will be entirely subjective. "Better" in this case cannot be objectively defined, so there is no way to objectively conclude that the one platform is absolutely better than the other.
One can compare CPUs, architecture, and other hardware issues until the cows come home, but what it boils down to are differences in OS and user interfaces.
FWIW, here's my two cents:
Web browsing and games--Wintel is better.
Everything else--Mac is better.
I have been using Macs for over 15 years and Windows (and MS-DOS before that) since 1984. They both have their quirks, they both suck at certain things, and they both have their own shining moments.
One can compare CPUs, architecture, and other hardware issues until the cows come home, but what it boils down to are differences in OS and user interfaces.
FWIW, here's my two cents:
Web browsing and games--Wintel is better.
Everything else--Mac is better.
I have been using Macs for over 15 years and Windows (and MS-DOS before that) since 1984. They both have their quirks, they both suck at certain things, and they both have their own shining moments.
As someone who works with audio professionally I can tell you that Macs are crap for it. The reason is that OSX hasn't had an API developed for it yet which offers the benefits of ASIO. No audio professional would work without this kind of latency. Since you can't capture audio in OSX for this reason you're left with OS9 which has a lack of protected memory pre-windows 95. Not good enough for a workstation.
As for your everything comment, is that just because you want it to be or do the exact same programs somehow run better on slower hardware?
As for your everything comment, is that just because you want it to be or do the exact same programs somehow run better on slower hardware?
hmm, I'd say user who don't care that much about speed (word processing, internet surfing etc.) and a too big budget and not enough knowledge of PCs... go for Mac. They just run, they are simple to use (not for someone who is already used to PCs...). PCs are cheaper, but then they are more for the tech enthusiast... all the time working on the system, upgrading here and there etc. So I prefer the PCs... and I guess most of you will prefer it too. Yes, I've upgraded the old iMac once (not my own tho). And its a pain in the @$$!!! The G3/G4 towers are rather ok, but still far away from good PC cases (Avance new titan case for example). Anyway... I think most Mac users are like 50 to 60 year old professors etc. who essentially just need a typewriter. They don't want to fiddle around with the system, if somethings wrong they just bring it to the shop and pay for the "repair".
To me the PCs are highly tuned VW Golf or Minis... you know, 300-400hp, fast as hell. Macs are more... lets say Ferrari or Rolls Royce. They ain't better (speed etc.), but they are more comfortable and more exclusive, got more understatement.
To me the PCs are highly tuned VW Golf or Minis... you know, 300-400hp, fast as hell. Macs are more... lets say Ferrari or Rolls Royce. They ain't better (speed etc.), but they are more comfortable and more exclusive, got more understatement.
DT4K
Diamond Member
- Jan 21, 2002
- 6,944
- 3
- 81
Apple cannot compete with the x86 systems as far as performance and price goes. If they could, the wouldn't have to resort to marketing based on pretty colors, strange shapes, and shiny plastic. Their whole marketing spin is about being different. Well maybe there's a reason everyone is buying something else.
But performance is irrelevant, it's all about attitude and style for Mac buyers. People who buy Macs don't buy for performance or price, they buy them to be cool and different. Don't get me wrong, if that's what you are looking for, go for it. It's just not for me.
They buy them to feel unique and separate themselves from the 90% of the computer buyers who decided they would rather get a faster, higher-performing computer for half the price, even if it doesn't come in a neon purple acrylic case that "looks cool".
I mean come on, what's up with the 1-button mouse ?
But performance is irrelevant, it's all about attitude and style for Mac buyers. People who buy Macs don't buy for performance or price, they buy them to be cool and different. Don't get me wrong, if that's what you are looking for, go for it. It's just not for me.
They buy them to feel unique and separate themselves from the 90% of the computer buyers who decided they would rather get a faster, higher-performing computer for half the price, even if it doesn't come in a neon purple acrylic case that "looks cool".
I mean come on, what's up with the 1-button mouse ?
well, indeed, design is something important for Apples. But hey, whos mouth didn't drop on the desk when they heard about the iPod? It looks cool, is better than any other hdd mp3 player... I mean, who likes the design of the Creative Jukebox? And then there was the time of the old Macs... coming in a boring grey case... just as PCs. While they didn't sold that well, some people still bought them.
I don't mind... lets say PCs win the performance award, but Macs win the coolness and simplicity award... they just work out of the box.
Oh... and who says that PCs can't look cool? Just look at the several case mods... esp. the ones displayed at the last IDF. Or some of you might remember the Sony VAIO notebook polished up so well that it really shines (like a mirror...), or a NeXT workstation case (with PC components) which looks like a mirror too. Stylish AND PCs. Oh... and the few PCs with Mac cases
I don't mind... lets say PCs win the performance award, but Macs win the coolness and simplicity award... they just work out of the box.
Oh... and who says that PCs can't look cool? Just look at the several case mods... esp. the ones displayed at the last IDF. Or some of you might remember the Sony VAIO notebook polished up so well that it really shines (like a mirror...), or a NeXT workstation case (with PC components) which looks like a mirror too. Stylish AND PCs. Oh... and the few PCs with Mac cases
dude pink, don't diss me, i just want to see anand dispell these theroetical performance numbers in this vs. this, just straight up do a thorough review of the premeir apple system vs a premier intel and amd system, showing price differences and performance numbers
(of course it'd be obvious who would win 90% of the comparisons and probably by a handy margin)
and what is this crap with osx is easier to use than windows xp- if you can't use windows you don't deserver to own a computer, how hard is it to use a pc? come-on that is not an argument
- seems like the apple users always fall back on that one (well OSX is..... yeah but you spent an extra grand on a computer that is still slow, not to mention its not used by 95% of the computer community, but you "think diffent" don't you, oh but it does 200gigaflops so it must be fast......riiiiight )
(of course it'd be obvious who would win 90% of the comparisons and probably by a handy margin)
and what is this crap with osx is easier to use than windows xp- if you can't use windows you don't deserver to own a computer, how hard is it to use a pc? come-on that is not an argument
- seems like the apple users always fall back on that one (well OSX is..... yeah but you spent an extra grand on a computer that is still slow, not to mention its not used by 95% of the computer community, but you "think diffent" don't you, oh but it does 200gigaflops so it must be fast......riiiiight )
Hmm... about a year and a half ago I wouldn't touch a mac with a 10 foot pole. Then I got this job as a graphics cat. Things changed drastically then. First of all, there's almost no way you can survive in graphics (publishing at least) without macs (even if they don't constitute the majority of workstations). But anyway, to the point:
Macs are highly specialized machines. When you need to do a couple things really well, they can be awesome. At work I'm running a 2x1ghz mac with jaguar (osx 10.2). It's awesome with photoshop, and optomized like a whore for quicktime video editing (realtime quicktime transition rendering in final cut pto). Combine this with excellent stability and support, and you've got a sweet workstation.
Next, it looks pretty as hell. Clients come in to the office and see tastefull stylized g4s with flat cinema displays... they're like... Yumm.
Regardless, macs suck as home units (imacs are completely useless... the titanium laptop is a f**king joke). They are very inflexible, offer extremely limited compatability with most products and are overpriced. Still, on the style tip, I'd like to see some progress for pcs... until there are ultra nice atx cases commonly available, I'll be looking for a pretty silver g4 case to but my athlon rig in.
Macs are highly specialized machines. When you need to do a couple things really well, they can be awesome. At work I'm running a 2x1ghz mac with jaguar (osx 10.2). It's awesome with photoshop, and optomized like a whore for quicktime video editing (realtime quicktime transition rendering in final cut pto). Combine this with excellent stability and support, and you've got a sweet workstation.
Next, it looks pretty as hell. Clients come in to the office and see tastefull stylized g4s with flat cinema displays... they're like... Yumm.
Regardless, macs suck as home units (imacs are completely useless... the titanium laptop is a f**king joke). They are very inflexible, offer extremely limited compatability with most products and are overpriced. Still, on the style tip, I'd like to see some progress for pcs... until there are ultra nice atx cases commonly available, I'll be looking for a pretty silver g4 case to but my athlon rig in.
lol, what about the Lian Li PC60 or the CoolerMaster ones with the color-class front door? Or the Avanch (?) case with Titan finish?
has nada on the g4 setup. Of course a big bonus is that everything matches. The keyboard (with keys that are too small), the mouse (which is a whore), the cinema display (so sweet), the case, and even the OS (osx at least). Nonetheless the coolermasters are rather tastefull.
As far as total matching setups, VAIOs are the nicest looking pcs, but still not quite the subtle tastefull appreance of the total g4 package.
imacs are ugly tho. (I can't really express the degree to which I loathe these machines)
As far as total matching setups, VAIOs are the nicest looking pcs, but still not quite the subtle tastefull appreance of the total g4 package.
imacs are ugly tho. (I can't really express the degree to which I loathe these machines)
Actually, in every test I've seen the PC handsomly WHIPS the mac in video editing. In the joint article between maximum PC and mac adict their sister magazine even when they outputted to quicktime on the PC which isn't even its native thing it still whipped ass. I dunno what you're talking about with graphics either. PCs own at photoshop benchmarks too.
in our school here in the UK, unlike all the other high schools in the area, we are fully mac equipped (Imacs, old Macintosh's, G4 servers, the whole malarky) whereas the other schools have PC's why? after hours of arguing with the "network administrator" - my annoyingly drone voiced computing teacher, Imacs are cheaper (kinda true), more reliable (not sure about that, the stupid server always crashes), faster (bahahaha, ok well they can be quite nippy), take up less desk space and also there is also the performance indifference;e.g one mac isnt faster than the other sitting beside it.
anyway Macs are good, although PC's in our school would be better education wise as hardly any businesses use Macs do they?? but the major downfall of the macs is that as they get old, there is absolutely noway to upgrade ram, video card, processor etc so in end, they just get chucked out dont they? a bit like those real old computers that had their procs glued on..
anyway Macs are good, although PC's in our school would be better education wise as hardly any businesses use Macs do they?? but the major downfall of the macs is that as they get old, there is absolutely noway to upgrade ram, video card, processor etc so in end, they just get chucked out dont they? a bit like those real old computers that had their procs glued on..
hey pink0 where was that article you just mensioned, i wanna read that, i also agree with you, i have yet to see any review that put the g4 ahead of the p4 2.53
dejitaru: IBm will be taking over cpu production in the future for apple, motorola is said to be dropping the powerpc processor line in the near future after ibm takes it over
dejitaru: IBm will be taking over cpu production in the future for apple, motorola is said to be dropping the powerpc processor line in the near future after ibm takes it over
I dunno what issue it was. Not long ago. It's probably the same article that the other person in this thread was referring to. I remember them making a big deal out of how the PC whipped apple in quick time since that's apple's own format. It can't be more than three issues ago I don't think.
oh, nice, yeah i think its funny that apple can't even back up their own claims
why doesn't anyone have any comparisons on x-serve vs. a 1u or 2u equivalent... i'd like to see that, the only thing that saves the g4 architechture from beeing flogged is the huge cache sizes
why doesn't anyone have any comparisons on x-serve vs. a 1u or 2u equivalent... i'd like to see that, the only thing that saves the g4 architechture from beeing flogged is the huge cache sizes
Cerb
Elite Member
- Aug 26, 2000
- 17,484
- 33
- 86
Cheaper - Where?! I can build a crap (but not quite Compaq or HP level crap...duron 800 K7S5A 256MB RAM 40GB HD kinda crap) PC for $800, including WinXP and M$ Office 2002 SB (OpenOffice doesn't cost anything, but it'd be on there too).
More reliable - If a server ever crashes it is time to be rebuilt.
Faster - for schools, who gives a damn?
Less desk space - Why are compauters taking any desk space at all aside from the monitor, keyboard and mouse?
Performance difference - who cares? It's a school. Where I went just 2 years ago they were still using 486 machines w/ Win 3.11 on them in the library...
Lastly...maybe somsone here will write a book. The rest of us are too lazy I think.
HAW HAW HAW. THese parodies are the best that I"ve ever seen. They sum up my thoughts on mac users quite well.
http://drunkgamers.com/switch0001.shtml
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~jgg221/
http://www.opticuslabs.com/gopal/switch.html
http://drunkgamers.com/switch0001.shtml
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~jgg221/
http://www.opticuslabs.com/gopal/switch.html
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