PC User Going Mac: Advice?

[ValuedCustomer]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
You listed 3 things that need to be installed on a Windows machine to protect it from ~90% of the maleware out there, 3 things which aren't required on any other OS I might add, but you conveniently forgot about the fact that with a lot of software being added/removed over time Windows slows to a crawl which is why so many technical people image their machines and restore that image every 6 months to a year.

"any other OS"? y'mean, Mac? - you're prolly one of the sheeple that spews the Apple party-line and thinks that a Mac is just that good.. "the Mac is impregnable! bulletproof! it's UNIX damnit!" - why design malware/spyware to attack and/or infect just 3% of the PCs on earth? cuz it's impossible? pfft! try who cares! - and if you wanna continue down the Windows is inherently unstable hogwash just ask yourself one question: if Apple attempted to design an OS to work w/ say 10,000 hardware drivers (CHOICES!) from every hardware manufacturer on earth (unlike the EXTREMELY limited number of choices for Mac users) how stable do you think that over-priced boutique-box of yours would be? hmm?

And the main problem with your logic is that most people can't be bothered to do any of that. Just like they forget to change the oil in their car and change the filter in their AC.

Who forgets to change the oil in their car? I mean more than once? If you're forgetting stuff like that then maybe you oughta stick to Playstations and PacMan.. maybe you hang around w/ numbskulls.. I don't know.

People are lazy and they only way things like that are going to be maintained is if it's done in the background behind their backs.

Exactly! that's why I mentioned "Scheduled Tasks". (those are automatic, btw)

 

[Mhaddy2]

Thanks for the link, Lucifer. It's interesting that the Radeon 9650 is an upgrade that actually downgrades the performance of your system. That doesn't sound like a worthwhile upgrade to me. Are Mac video cards, such as the ones listed in Apple's online order menu, different from "PC" video cards? Rather, could I go out and try to find a cheaper price on the Radeon X850 XT from the $478 Apple lists? Likewise with the RAM and HDD ? are these specials hardware components or can I run to my local PC store and pick x items up?

Childs, I suppose you get what you pay for, right? I wouldn?t be going for the LCD purchase though, I've already got a 17" LCD and a 19" CRT at home that I would be using on the Mac. And unless I read the "read more" link incorrectly, all cards on Apple's site support dual monitors.

Regarding the Mac Mini, Canadian education prices list the 1.42Ghz / 80GB HDD model for $725. I'd have to upgrade the RAM to 512MB though ($63) and upgrade to a SuperDrive ($125). That brings the total up to $913 before tax and just shy of $1050 after tax (being the lucky Ontario resident that I am). A thousand dollars to test out an operating system (because I obviously wouldn't be buying this for performance reasons)? That seems pretty steep to me.

 

[PatboyX]

price is a big issue, i think.
the good thing about the macs is that they come packaged with a decent set of general media products. imovie/idvd/hdmovie (or whatever its called now) garage band, etc. and all of those products are heavily supported becuase of their origin.
at the same time, stepping to "the next level" is a bit harder and the prices tend to jump dramatically. there isnt much of an "intermediate" type of garage band program. its either garage band for 50 bucks or (i think) something from line 7 for hundreds.
i think the apple doesnt seem to take well to some of these media-generating programs. for some reason, i cant get them to run without really dragging the machine and cant even run on some of our lower-memory machines.
in that respect, you are able to slap together a pretty decent xp machine that can run a wide range of software.
it really is mostly a personal decision. i like them both but prefer to do my work on a pc.

 

[Nothinman]

"any other OS"? y'mean, Mac? - you're prolly one of the sheeple that spews the Apple party-line and thinks that a Mac is just that good.. "the Mac is impregnable! bulletproof! it's UNIX damnit!" - why design malware/spyware to attack and/or infect just 3% of the PCs on earth? cuz it's impossible? pfft! try who cares! - and if you wanna continue down the Windows is inherently unstable hogwash just ask yourself one question: if Apple attempted to design an OS to work w/ say 10,000 hardware drivers (CHOICES!) from every hardware manufacturer on earth (unlike the EXTREMELY limited number of choices for Mac users) how stable do you think that over-priced boutique-box of yours would be? hmm?

Actually I hate OS X, if I were to ever own a Mac it would have Debian/PPC on it.

Who forgets to change the oil in their car? I mean more than once? If you're forgetting stuff like that then maybe you oughta stick to Playstations and PacMan.. maybe you hang around w/ numbskulls.. I don't know.

A lot of people do, how many women do you know that know exactly when their oil need changing?

Exactly! that's why I mentioned "Scheduled Tasks". (those are automatic, btw)

To schedule the Windows built-in defragmenter you have to jump through hoops, to make it simple you have to spend more cash.

 

[PatboyX]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

"any other OS"? y'mean, Mac? - you're prolly one of the sheeple that spews the Apple party-line and thinks that a Mac is just that good.. "the Mac is impregnable! bulletproof! it's UNIX damnit!" - why design malware/spyware to attack and/or infect just 3% of the PCs on earth? cuz it's impossible? pfft! try who cares! - and if you wanna continue down the Windows is inherently unstable hogwash just ask yourself one question: if Apple attempted to design an OS to work w/ say 10,000 hardware drivers (CHOICES!) from every hardware manufacturer on earth (unlike the EXTREMELY limited number of choices for Mac users) how stable do you think that over-priced boutique-box of yours would be? hmm?

Actually I hate OS X, if I were to ever own a Mac it would have Debian/PPC on it.

Who forgets to change the oil in their car? I mean more than once? If you're forgetting stuff like that then maybe you oughta stick to Playstations and PacMan.. maybe you hang around w/ numbskulls.. I don't know.

A lot of people do, how many women do you know that know exactly when their oil need changing?

Exactly! that's why I mentioned "Scheduled Tasks". (those are automatic, btw)

To schedule the Windows built-in defragmenter you have to jump through hoops, to make it simple you have to spend more cash.

i dont disagree with you but i think that most people using a mac are using OS X. an even higher percentage, i would argue, than of PC users using windows. while i recognize that there are more than two OS in prevelant use, i think the OP is more worried about an "out of the box" sort of set up rather than hardcore builds.

also: all the women i know know when to change their oil.

 

[Nothinman]

i dont disagree with you but i think that most people using a mac are using OS X. an even higher percentage, i would argue, than of PC users using windows. while i recognize that there are more than two OS in prevelant use, i think the OP is more worried about an "out of the box" sort of set up rather than hardcore builds.

The out of the box setup of Windows is the worst of the breed. 2 out of the 3 things he mentioned require extra software to be installed and the 3rd is a PITA without extra software installed.

 

[ValuedCustomer]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

"any other OS"? y'mean, Mac? - you're prolly one of the sheeple that spews the Apple party-line and thinks that a Mac is just that good.. "the Mac is impregnable! bulletproof! it's UNIX damnit!" - why design malware/spyware to attack and/or infect just 3% of the PCs on earth? cuz it's impossible? pfft! try who cares! - and if you wanna continue down the Windows is inherently unstable hogwash just ask yourself one question: if Apple attempted to design an OS to work w/ say 10,000 hardware drivers (CHOICES!) from every hardware manufacturer on earth (unlike the EXTREMELY limited number of choices for Mac users) how stable do you think that over-priced boutique-box of yours would be? hmm?

Actually I hate OS X, if I were to ever own a Mac it would have Debian/PPC on it.

:roll:

Who forgets to change the oil in their car? I mean more than once? If you're forgetting stuff like that then maybe you oughta stick to Playstations and PacMan.. maybe you hang around w/ numbskulls.. I don't know.

A lot of people do, how many women do you know that know exactly when their oil need changing?

how many? all of 'em that can read the little sticker-thingy the mechanic put on their windshields the last oil change.

Exactly! that's why I mentioned "Scheduled Tasks". (those are automatic, btw)

To schedule the Windows built-in defragmenter you have to jump through hoops, to make it simple you have to spend more cash.

"jump through hoops"?? yea, I guess you're right, that whole "next > next > next"-thing is a huge ordeal.

/puhleease..

 

[Nothinman]

"jump through hoops"?? yea, I guess you're right, that whole "next > next > next"-thing is a huge ordeal.

It is when you don't know which executable to schedule.

 

[Childs]

Originally posted by: Mhaddy2
Childs, I suppose you get what you pay for, right? I wouldn?t be going for the LCD purchase though, I've already got a 17" LCD and a 19" CRT at home that I would be using on the Mac. And unless I read the "read more" link incorrectly, all cards on Apple's site support dual monitors.

Regarding the Mac Mini, Canadian education prices list the 1.42Ghz / 80GB HDD model for $725. I'd have to upgrade the RAM to 512MB though ($63) and upgrade to a SuperDrive ($125). That brings the total up to $913 before tax and just shy of $1050 after tax (being the lucky Ontario resident that I am). A thousand dollars to test out an operating system (because I obviously wouldn't be buying this for performance reasons)? That seems pretty steep to me.

Yeah, all the video cards have two outputs. And you would be better served getting 1GB for the mini. Don't buy it from apple, just buy a 1GB dimm from newegg or something and buy a putty knife.

 

[imported_Lucifer]

No problem, Mhaddy2. If I were to choose a graphics card for my G5, I would choose the 9800 Pro. Though it is kind of pricey, at $249 straight from ATI, I would choose that over any other video card. The dual link DVI on the 6800 ultra DDL and the X800 isn't necessary for me. And as stated by barefeats, the 9800 pro with 128mb of VRAM easily outperformed the 9650 w/ 256mb VRAM.

A PC video card wouldn't work with a Mac. The only way I believe to get a PC video card to work with a Mac was to flash it. But I think there were only certain video cards that could be flashed. So a PC Radeon X850XT wouldn't work with your Mac.

RAM and Hard drives are all compatible. Though OS X is kind of picky with RAM, I just went to my local PC computer shop, picked up 2 128mb sticks, popped them in my Mac, and they were recognized. I also bought a 40gb hard drive from a friend for 5 bucks. He was using it in his PC. I just popped it in my Mac, and it was recognized. I just had to reformat it, since he left all his junk on it. So yes, you can pick up RAM and hard drives from your local PC shop, and install them in your Mac.

But with CD drives, DVD-R/RW drives, etc. they are not all compatible. A friend gave me a brand new Sony DVD-R/RW drive since he owed me money. I installed it on my Mac. I put a cd in the drive, and as soon as I closed the drive, an error popped up saying the drive didn't support my OS. So I had to take it out. Most drives at a PC shop are most likely not compatible with your Mac.

Regarding the Mac mini, I owned one for about 2 weeks, but I sold it to a friend that desperatly needed a computer. It was a 1.25GHz with 512mb RAM. I actually didn't use the mini until I set it up for my friend. That thing was fast! He loves Garageband, and it runs very smooth. I was suprise on how fast that computer was. He loves it. I think the mini packs a lot of power for the price. Hell, a G5 may not even be necessary. I use a 400mhz Powermac G4, the only Mac I currently own. Reason why I didn't keep the mini is because I wanted something I can upgrade, like processor upgrades, etc. Only thing that seems to be user upgradeable in the Mini is the RAM.

And as stated before, don't buy RAM from Apple. They charge an arm and a leg for their RAM.

If you really need the power, either get the G5, or like others said, build a really fast PC. Just remember to get AT LEAST 512mb of RAM. OS X and Windows flies with a lot of RAM.

If I had to choose between building a PC or purchasing a G5, personally, I would choose the G5. But that's just me.

 

[Randum]

build a screaming PC-you can upgrade more easily-and it wont cost you near what a Mac will. Another thing is windows allows a lot more user control than the locked up MacOS

and the Mac graphic cards are expensive as all hell, not to mention any components for it.

Get a nice dual core, and if you want screaming, get a dual core EE, then its like 4 CPUS under the hood.

I assume you are not a very savy PC user, just a gamer? I find it odd you would be interested in a mac.

ALSO consider the new intel chips going inside....you will have some capatibility issues...

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Originally posted by: Randum
build a screaming PC-you can upgrade more easily-and it wont cost you near what a Mac will. Another thing is windows allows a lot more user control than the locked up MacOS

and the Mac graphic cards are expensive as all hell, not to mention any components for it.

Get a nice dual core, and if you want screaming, get a dual core EE, then its like 4 CPUS under the hood.

I assume you are not a very savy PC user, just a gamer? I find it odd you would be interested in a mac.

ALSO consider the new intel chips going inside....you will have some capatibility issues...

Can you explain how Windows has more user control than Mac OS? And how is the Mac OS "locked up?"

If you read his OP more carefully, you would have seen that he stated he became less and less of a PC gamer and was getting into multimedia.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
You listed 3 things that need to be installed on a Windows machine to protect it from ~90% of the maleware out there, 3 things which aren't required on any other OS I might add, but you conveniently forgot about the fact that with a lot of software being added/removed over time Windows slows to a crawl which is why so many technical people image their machines and restore that image every 6 months to a year.

And the main problem with your logic is that most people can't be bothered to do any of that. Just like they forget to change the oil in their car and change the filter in their AC. People are lazy and they only way things like that are going to be maintained is if it's done in the background behind their backs.

I didnt realize virus's were only written for the Windows platform.

Interesting stuff you learn on teh internets

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: TheMerovingian
What? Pre windows 2K pro was a nightmare compared to os9. Who had a stable 98 machine. I suppose you just didn't manage the extentions or something cause 9 provided such control over the OS. No reinstall whatsoever.

How was OS9's memory management? The only reason people had an unstable Win98 is because they were using junk hardware with equally bad drivers. I ran Win98 from 1998-2002 and had at most 3 crashes over that time period.

The secret is using decent hardware with good drivers. Stick a lowgrade nic in a mac with horrible drivers and watch it crumble. Windows went past the MacOS at about Win3.1 when it could allocate memory on the fly.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

"jump through hoops"?? yea, I guess you're right, that whole "next > next > next"-thing is a huge ordeal.

It is when you don't know which executable to schedule.

lol

/shakes head

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: TheMerovingian
What? Pre windows 2K pro was a nightmare compared to os9. Who had a stable 98 machine. I suppose you just didn't manage the extentions or something cause 9 provided such control over the OS. No reinstall whatsoever.

How was OS9's memory management? The only reason people had an unstable Win98 is because they were using junk hardware with equally bad drivers. I ran Win98 from 1998-2002 and had at most 3 crashes over that time period.

The secret is using decent hardware with good drivers. Stick a lowgrade nic in a mac with horrible drivers and watch it crumble. Windows went past the MacOS at about Win3.1 when it could allocate memory on the fly.

With OS 9, you had to allocate memory to a program. You don't allocate enough, it'll crash. But I used OS 9 for years, so I rarely had crashes. I still use OS 9 till this day.

 

[sparkyclarky]

Originally posted by: Lucifer
No problem, Mhaddy2. If I were to choose a graphics card for my G5, I would choose the 9800 Pro. Though it is kind of pricey, at $249 straight from ATI, I would choose that over any other video card. The dual link DVI on the 6800 ultra DDL and the X800 isn't necessary for me. And as stated by barefeats, the 9800 pro with 128mb of VRAM easily outperformed the 9650 w/ 256mb VRAM.

A PC video card wouldn't work with a Mac. The only way I believe to get a PC video card to work with a Mac was to flash it. But I think there were only certain video cards that could be flashed. So a PC Radeon X850XT wouldn't work with your Mac.

RAM and Hard drives are all compatible. Though OS X is kind of picky with RAM, I just went to my local PC computer shop, picked up 2 128mb sticks, popped them in my Mac, and they were recognized. I also bought a 40gb hard drive from a friend for 5 bucks. He was using it in his PC. I just popped it in my Mac, and it was recognized. I just had to reformat it, since he left all his junk on it. So yes, you can pick up RAM and hard drives from your local PC shop, and install them in your Mac.

But with CD drives, DVD-R/RW drives, etc. they are not all compatible. A friend gave me a brand new Sony DVD-R/RW drive since he owed me money. I installed it on my Mac. I put a cd in the drive, and as soon as I closed the drive, an error popped up saying the drive didn't support my OS. So I had to take it out. Most drives at a PC shop are most likely not compatible with your Mac.

Regarding the Mac mini, I owned one for about 2 weeks, but I sold it to a friend that desperatly needed a computer. It was a 1.25GHz with 512mb RAM. I actually didn't use the mini until I set it up for my friend. That thing was fast! He loves Garageband, and it runs very smooth. I was suprise on how fast that computer was. He loves it. I think the mini packs a lot of power for the price. Hell, a G5 may not even be necessary. I use a 400mhz Powermac G4, the only Mac I currently own. Reason why I didn't keep the mini is because I wanted something I can upgrade, like processor upgrades, etc. Only thing that seems to be user upgradeable in the Mini is the RAM.

And as stated before, don't buy RAM from Apple. They charge an arm and a leg for their RAM.

If you really need the power, either get the G5, or like others said, build a really fast PC. Just remember to get AT LEAST 512mb of RAM. OS X and Windows flies with a lot of RAM.

If I had to choose between building a PC or purchasing a G5, personally, I would choose the G5. But that's just me.

Generally right on everything, except for the optical drive comment. All drives should work, but they might not all allow direct burning from Apps like iDVD. To get many/most 3rd party DVD burners to work in that scenario, you may have to use the freeware app PatchBurn.

 

[Nothinman]

I didnt realize virus's were only written for the Windows platform.

Interesting stuff you learn on teh internets

There are viruses for other platforms, there's just less of them and the spreading of them is harder.

How was OS9's memory management?

Bad, it was akin to the DOS/Win311 memory management.

lol

/shakes head

But it's true, with the default Windows defrag tool which executable do you need to schedule and how did you figure it out?

 

[sparkyclarky]

Originally posted by: Randum
build a screaming PC-you can upgrade more easily-and it wont cost you near what a Mac will. Another thing is windows allows a lot more user control than the locked up MacOS

and the Mac graphic cards are expensive as all hell, not to mention any components for it.

Get a nice dual core, and if you want screaming, get a dual core EE, then its like 4 CPUS under the hood.

I assume you are not a very savy PC user, just a gamer? I find it odd you would be interested in a mac.

ALSO consider the new intel chips going inside....you will have some capatibility issues...

Wrong on most accounts.
1. Windows allows the same, if not less control over the OS than OSX does
2. Hard drives, RAM, optical drives, and most other peripherals cost exactly the same. The only thing that may cost more is a CPU upgrade and the gfx card.
3. The dual core P4 is a far cry from having 4 actual CPUs, as hyperthreading is useful, but much of its use/advantage is rendered moot when you already have a second physical core available. The dual core AMD solution is a generally faster chip as a whole.
4. Compatibility issues are not likely to arise for at least 3 years, as the transition period to Intel for Apple begins in a year and continues for a year. In the meantime, well over half of the user base is still going to be on PPC machines, so no developer is going to cut out that large of a market by coding exclusively for Intel, rather than going the fat binaries approach.

Please only post if you have any clue about what you are actually talking about.

 

[Tbirdkid]

crap in one hand, and buy a mac out of the other... and see which one lasts longer in your hand.

i bet you go back to pc after a couple of months after it loses its novelty. I would buy something cheap like a mac mini so it dont hurt as bad when you learn to hate it.

 

[sparkyclarky]

Originally posted by: Tbirdkid
crap in one hand, and buy a mac out of the other... and see which one lasts longer in your hand.

i bet you go back to pc after a couple of months after it loses its novelty. I would buy something cheap like a mac mini so it dont hurt as bad when you learn to hate it.

So, how long have you used a modern Mac (read anything made in the last 4 years or so, running OSX with at least 512 RAM? Please explain where your enlightened opinion comes from?

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Originally posted by: sparkyclarky

Originally posted by: Lucifer


Generally right on everything, except for the optical drive comment. All drives should work, but they might not all allow direct burning from Apps like iDVD. To get many/most 3rd party DVD burners to work in that scenario, you may have to use the freeware app PatchBurn.

I should make my self more clear then. The drives wouldn't be officially supported. You have to use 3rd pary software. Also, if you wanted to burn a cd off of the Finder using an unsupported drive, you won't be able to. You need 3rd party software. But, Roxio Toast Titanium does everything, so burning cd's off of the Finder isn't a concern for me.

 

[Childs]

Originally posted by: Lucifer

Originally posted by: sparkyclarky

Originally posted by: Lucifer


Generally right on everything, except for the optical drive comment. All drives should work, but they might not all allow direct burning from Apps like iDVD. To get many/most 3rd party DVD burners to work in that scenario, you may have to use the freeware app PatchBurn.

I should make my self more clear then. The drives wouldn't be officially supported. You have to use 3rd pary software. Also, if you wanted to burn a cd off of the Finder using an unsupported drive, you won't be able to. You need 3rd party software. But, Roxio Toast Titanium does everything, so burning cd's off of the Finder isn't a concern for me.

You can use an unsupported burner in finder or Apple apps without any 3rd party software. All you have to do is create a drp profile. I'm using a NuTech POS burner in my PowerMac, just because I can.

 

[sparkyclarky]

Originally posted by: Childs

Originally posted by: Lucifer

Originally posted by: sparkyclarky

Originally posted by: Lucifer


Generally right on everything, except for the optical drive comment. All drives should work, but they might not all allow direct burning from Apps like iDVD. To get many/most 3rd party DVD burners to work in that scenario, you may have to use the freeware app PatchBurn.

I should make my self more clear then. The drives wouldn't be officially supported. You have to use 3rd pary software. Also, if you wanted to burn a cd off of the Finder using an unsupported drive, you won't be able to. You need 3rd party software. But, Roxio Toast Titanium does everything, so burning cd's off of the Finder isn't a concern for me.

You can use an unsupported burner in finder or Apple apps without any 3rd party software. All you have to do is create a drp profile. I'm using a NuTech POS burner in my PowerMac, just because I can.

I'd guess that is what PatchBurn does. It's a no brainer solution used to shut up all the fanboys going 'OMG..OMG.....all dat Apple so spensive!!LOLROFLCOPTER...who would buy such a thing!11!!000!!you are stupid!!!ROFL.'

 

[Tbirdkid]

my enlightened opinion comes from the fact that i have used all sorts of pcs. macs are just over priced and cant do anything better than a pc. the only difference is the os. i do like the mac os better, but thats it. you could build a better pc for the price of a mac. including a big ass lcd.