PC Stuck After HW Upgrades....

[Zadillo]

Originally posted by: TechnoButt
Sorry to hear about your problems, did you ever try another video card (preferably PCI or a semi-modern agp)? When I run into POST problems on a new system, I actually pull the board from the case entirely and set it up loose on a bench (with a static bag underneath if you're paranoid). Then I install a single stick of known good ram (or two if dual channel is required). I use a known good low power video card (in my case, it's a geforce2 mx, but it will soon be a PCI Matrox G450/550 or similar if I can find one). The only other thing I put on the board is the cpu with a stock HSF. Then I clear the CMOS (move the jumper for a few minutes to make sure it's fully discharged.. it will usually reset immediately, but wait a few minutes just to be sure). I plug the power supply into the board and board only. If you can get your power switch lead to reach the board, great.. but I usually power on by quickly shorting across the two posts where the power switch normally connects.

If the system won't post out of the case with known good video/memory/cpu/hsf (I say hsf, because of the chance that too much pressure is causing the cpu to not seat properly, etc), then my next guess would be to verify that the board came with support for the cpu directly from the manufacturer upon shipping. I can't tell you how common it is to get a mobo/cpu from different places only to find out the mobo will need a bios upgrade before accurately detect the cpu. If it doesn't detect correctly, usually the motherboard is supplying too much voltage (newer cpus tend to need less voltage than their older counterparts). If that's the case, then the cpu does not get enough voltage to POST.

So, yuck, good luck? If you could get your hands on the cheapest/most basic CPU that was designed for that board, you could find out if you needed a bios update (and could actually flash the cmos with the older cpu running).

EDIT: BTW, don't get an antec neopower from CompUSA. I just bought one a couple of weeks ago and watched my +12V1 rail droop to +10V several times as my motherboard powered off to protect itself from damage. I'm about to be done with ANTEC for awhile. I'm trying to convince myself to spend the $200+ it will take to get the PC Power&Cooling Turbo-Cool 510-SLI that I really want.

Thanks. Basically everything had been working properly before I put in the new case fans, the XP-90 and the NV Silenver 5.... although as people have pointed out to me, I was probably already pushing the limitd with the PSU I had anyway (the 350w PSU that came with the Antec SLK3700BQE). So part of this will be that I'll wait til I get the new PSU in anyway, since I want to rule that out as an issue (when I've been doing the testing since then I've unplugged the extra drives and the extra case fan to try and help things along, but who knows).

Re: the NeoPower, I didn't buy it from CompUSA, but I ordered it from ZipZoomFly (where it was $109 with free 2nd-day shipping). Is it really that bad a PSU? I've seen almost nothing but glowing reviews and comments on it at the various places I've looked. I don't think it's too late for me to cancel my order, but it seemed like it would be pretty solid to me. I guess I'll see.

 

[Uncle Bob]

This business of the power led not coming on is nagging at me.............
I'm wondering if there is an electrical short somewhere.......

If it still won't work with the fan swap we've just discussed, then remove the motherboard from the case and power it up on non conductive surface as mechBgon describes on his web site
http://www.omnicast.net/~tmcfa...s/build/benchtest.html

 

[Zadillo]

Just to clarify when we're talking about the Power LED, would that be the light on the case (that has a wire running from it that says "Power LED" on it)? If so, I might be wrong, but I think it might have never really lit up. I've plugged in the various case LED's from the Antec SLK3700BQE to the appropriate places on the motherboard, but I'm not sure if the Power LED ever even lit up properly. I think one of the HDD LED's seems to light up properly and show activity, but that was it (and that was before all of this).

-Zadillo

 

[Uncle Bob]

yes, that's right - Power LED.

Good luck with the tests, I'm going offline now so I'll check back tomorrow to see how you got on

 

[Zadillo]

I didn't get a chance yet to do any work on my PC since I was busy last night.

One thing I was wondering about that just occurred to me. I was looking through the MSI manual to see if I had missed anything when hooking up my motherboard, etc.

One of the things I noticed was the bit about seating the Athlon 64 CPU properly........ in particular the bit about making sure that little metal arm is at a 90 degree angle. I am not sure, but I'm thinking that when the CPU came out (when I took the original HSF out and it was stuck to the HSF), when I put it back in, I did lift the little metal arm up and closed it again, but I think I might not have lifted the arm up 90 degrees.

Would that possibly make any difference? As far as I can tell even with it not at 90 degrees when I put the CPU back in and closed the arm back down, it seemed to be in solidly. But I'm just wondering if that could make a difference or not. If so maybe I could try taking the XP-90 off, removing the CPU and putting it in again with the arm at 90 degrees.

-Zadillo

 

[Uncle Bob]

when you replaced the cpu, prior to fitting the XP-90, did the CPU go fully down into the socket?

Oh boy, you need to get that xp-90 off and check!

 

[Zadillo]

I'm pretty sure it went fully down into the socket (i mean, it didn't feel like it was loose or anything). I will take the XP-90 off though and check and reseat it, just to make sure though. I was mainly curious if that could be an issue or not....... i.e. even if it did go fully into the socket, if I didn't bring the little arm up 90 degrees, if maybe it could have gone in but maybe not gone in enough that it would think it wasn't there.

 

[Uncle Bob]

tip time:

when you've released the locking mechanism on the XP-90, don't try and pull the heatsink straight off the CPU. Use a twisting motion to loosen the heatsink before you try and seperate it from the CPU.

remove the CPU and check for bent pins

 

[Zadillo]

K, I'll give that a shot.

Thanks Uncle Bob.

Is there anything else to check for besides bent pins? Are there other things that could have caused the CPU to stop working (one other thing, when I had taken the original AMD HSF out, and the CPU was stuck to it and came off the motherboard, I used a twisting motion to try and separate the CPU from the HSF and the thermal stuff it was stuck to................ but in doing so, the CPU came loose and fell onto my shirt. There still weren't any bent pins or anything, but I'm wondering if that sudden action might have caused a problem).

-Zadillo

 

[Uncle Bob]

fur sure, it wouldn't have done any good

seriously, you can only look for signs of physical damage and if all appears ok, reinstall carefully and hope for the best

given what you've just said, maybe you should consider getting a new cpu rather than a new motherboard

 

[Zadillo]

K. Well, I'll give it a shot.

I'm wondering if it might not be worth picking up a new MB/CPU combo anyway. I noticed that I could pick up a socket 939 Athlon 64 3000+ for $156 and an ABIT AV8 939 MB for $115 at newegg today.

Once I did that, maybe I could find something else to do with my motherboard and CPU. Re: the CPU, do you know if there are people around who might be able to test it in other socket 754 hardware to see if it would still function? Not even sure if people do that sort of thing (like, you could mail the CPU to them and see if it worked in other hardware).

I'm assuming whatever warranty AMD has probably isn't going to cover anything that might have happened.

 

[montag451]

not being funny - but what material is your shirt? were you walking on a carpet? had you just taken a fleece jumper off? Things like this will blow a cpu.
I was wearing a fleece @ONCE@ when i was assembling a system - never again. Heard [or thought i heard, or imagined i thought i heard] a tiny little 'p'
that was the cpu gone..........

 

[Zadillo]

Just a regular Champion-brand sweatshirt. I was on carpet, but had already static-discharged myself, and was wearing the anti-static wrist guard.

I at least didn't hear or see any sort of static pop.

I figure at this point I'll be happy to pinpoint just exactly what part went bad, if any, and whatever it is I have to replace I'll take it as a lesson I guess.

I don't know if it's worth buying a new Socket 754 processor at this point (looks like the cheapest would be an Athlon 64 2800+ for about $130), or going ahead and upgrading to Socket 939 (or maybe considering something else).

 

[Uncle Bob]

you wouldn't necessarily be aware of any kind of pop or flash, you probably wouldn't even feel a tingle...

as regards 939 vs 754, well there's no doubt 939 has improved memory controller and a better chance of upgrading (although I've never managed to upgrade a cpu/motherboard combo in many years, so I think that's a bad reason to choose)

however, there's a good chance that only one part is faulty so even if you end up having to buy both a cpu and motherboard, there's a chance that you'd be able to sell whichever part ended up being surplus to requirements (Ebay?)

bear in mind, that you need to be thinking about upgrading your psu as well

 

[Zadillo]

Thanks, yeah. I'll think about what I'm going to do.

Re: the PSU, I did order the Antec NeoPower 480w PSU from zipzoomfly, so that will be coming in shortly. Hopefully that should be a solid PSU for me.

 

[imported_Chuckster]

Zadillo,

I've just got exactly, EXACTLY the same problem. My computer has been working fine. I've just put in a new dvd drive (NEC 3520A) and it worked fine, but crashed this morning. Ever since then it seems to hang at the 'Chip Initialization' boot stage, not even getting to the bios.

I have found though, it does actually boot if you leave it for about 10 Minutes. So try leaving your computer for a while (up to half an hour) and see if it boots eventually.

VERY STRANGE BEHAVOIUR.

I tried resetting the CMOS, which reset but did not change this long Chip Initialization time, also tried removing all pci cards, fans and IDE devices, still got this strange 10 minute delay. If you, or anyone else gets any answers, then please let me know.

Cheers

Chuckster

mb: Neo K8t