PC Power & Cooling

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: Beachboy

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
Did I fly off the handle at you? Sure. Because for you to come out and attack me based on what you assumed my position is. You took something I said out of context, misunderstood it and attacked me on it. So from my end of things, that makes someone ignorant and pigheaded.

I took your comment in the context it was written. And to most people your comment and it's meaning was quite clear.

You are right on one thing, its meaning is clear and makes perfect sense to me. But, you didn't understand it. Please don't take how you see something and then say that to most people it is that way. Umm no, it is that way to you maybe, but not necessarily most. Speak for yourself :roll:

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
Whatever man. If your thing is to take the things that people say and twist them in ways that create arguments out of thin air, more power to you. Sounds like you would have lots of fun in the P&N forums.

I know what I meant in my post, and I'm sure others knew what I meant. I really could care less what you think.

I agree, he would have fun over there in P&N
And yeah, I knew what you meant.

 

[Conky]

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: Beachboy

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
Did I fly off the handle at you? Sure. Because for you to come out and attack me based on what you assumed my position is. You took something I said out of context, misunderstood it and attacked me on it. So from my end of things, that makes someone ignorant and pigheaded.

I took your comment in the context it was written. And to most people your comment and it's meaning was quite clear.

You are right on one thing, its meaning is clear and makes perfect sense to me. But, you didn't understand it. Please don't take how you see something and then say that to most people it is that way. Umm no, it is that way to you maybe, but not necessarily most. Speak for yourself :roll:

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
Whatever man. If your thing is to take the things that people say and twist them in ways that create arguments out of thin air, more power to you. Sounds like you would have lots of fun in the P&N forums.

I know what I meant in my post, and I'm sure others knew what I meant. I really could care less what you think.

I agree, he would have fun over there in P&N
And yeah, I knew what you meant.

P&N sounds about right and he sounds like John Kerry!

Honest, what I said was not what I meant! :laugh:

 

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: Beachboy
P&N sounds about right and he sounds like John Kerry!

Honest, what I said was not what I meant! :laugh:

:roll:

Enough already. I don't know what your problem is but obviously this is getting nowhere. Is it really that important anyway? If you think that PCP&C is the best PSU maker out there, fine, buy their units. If I believe otherwise, or believe there is better value to be had, fine, I'll buy a different PSU.

Please....
/thread

 

[Conky]

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: Beachboy
P&N sounds about right and he sounds like John Kerry!

Honest, what I said was not what I meant! :laugh:

:roll:

Enough already. I don't know what your problem is but obviously this is getting nowhere. Is it really that important anyway? If you think that PCP&C is the best PSU maker out there, fine, buy their units. If I believe otherwise, or believe there is better value to be had, fine, I'll buy a different PSU.

Please....
/thread

The discussion I was having with him was not about whether PCP&C was the the best PS maker. If you had read our discussion instead of simply attacking me you would have known this.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: Beachboy
The discussion I was having with him was not about whether PCP&C was the the best PS maker. If you had read our discussion instead of simply attacking me you would have known this.

I did read it. Yes I am aware that it wasn't really about PCP&C being the best or not, it was a battle about a personal attack. Yet somehow these things seem to revolve around PCP&C in one way or another..... This time it wasn't about them necessarily being the best but whether they engineer their own products.

Whatever. No offense, but I think your attack on jonnyguru was uncalled for. Maybe his statement was taken the wrong way - personally I understood it - but you didn't have to attack jonnyguru for it. Starts off fine:

Originally posted by: Beachboy
I don't understand why you don't see how companies like PCP&C could actually design their own products.

No problem there, maybe a misunderstanding, but then you go on:

To you, the fact that it's made in the same factory makes it the same as the power supply made in the next production line.

An all-out attack on him for the way you feel he sees things. And I ask, WHY? What do you hope to gain by attacking him on something as baseless as your own ideas that you put on him? Are you just dying to argue with someone for the sake of doing so?

Whatever. Why don't we just drop it. At least, I'll drop it, if you and jonny want to duke it out for whatever reason fine.... I probably shouldn't have gotten involved anyway, and I apologize.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
Really, there's nothing incorrect or inaccurate in what he's saying.

The way the process works is that parties "meet" (physically, virtually, what have you), the factory will have a platform and the experts at the reseller will interject their own ideas to improve that platform, etc.

Now, unless there's something unique about this product, something that a patent can be applied for, even if it's a mere design patent, there's really nothing exclusive about this product between the manufacturer and the reseller.

Often times, an agreement is made. The factory knows how many units a day a particular line in the factory is going to be able to put out, and therefore can ask the reseller to commit to the production of that line. This is your typical agreement w/ power supply product and this will give the reseller a contract exclusive.

Unfortunately, this exclusive can backfire on the reseller, especially if the factory sells under their own brand. If the reseller can not sell what the line puts out each month, the factory may take it upon itself to sell the product to another reseller or under their own brand. In MOST cases, the factory is well within it's right to do this.

A real life example of this the MGE XG Duro 900W. XG couldn't move enough units to commit to keeping that particular production line open, so SevenTeam opted out of their agreement and sought another reseller to take over the production of the line. The product still comes off the line, but now with an Ultra X-Pro 750W label on it because of a 3000 unit PO.

Now I believe PCP&C has a bit more power than MGE XG. PCP&C doesn't move a lot of units, but they move more than MGE and can probably keep a line busy for a few months at a shot. It was too premature for Seasonic to pull the trigger on a Seasonic labeled Silencer 750W. So the email from PCP&C to Seasonic was completely appropriate. But if the Silencer 750W were to ever fall from favor, I'm quite sure Seasonic reserves the right to close the line, release the product to another reseller or revamp the product, etc.

Of course, there's always the "wild card" result. What I mean by that is that even if PCP&C doesn't meet their line "quota", they could threaten not to ever use Seasonic as an OEM/ODM ever again if they were to release the Silencer 750W as another brand months from now. This is a tactic Mr. Lee of Antec likes to use. Whether Doug is this way or not, I don't know. Never met him. But the way the industry moves, constant changes, etc. this isn't a tactic that used very often and 9 out of 10 times the line is just closed down.

I think this post of yours makes it very clear that you do not think PC P&C does design/engineer/manufacture their own products, but rather stick their labels on a Seasonic design/engineering/manufacturing under the exclusives. Am I correct? I just want to make sure if I understand your position correctly.

As far as this debate is concerned I rather think the whole argument from either side is somewhat moot. We all know the best memory IC for current production DDR2 is Micron D9. There are dozens of memory manufacturers that might buy chips or even pre-made sticks from Micron, then sell them with their stickers on. Does this make all the memory sticks the same? I don't think so. The SPD programming and binning, quality test as well as warranty/customer service are all discriminating factors for a brand. In that sense, if PC P&C performs more stringent quality test and back it up by their warranty, that itself is something worth paying extra and make PC P&C, well, PC P&C.

Would I like a PC P&C PSU for my own rig? Hell, no. I purchased a 510 SLI like a year and a half ago and couldn't stand the noise, so replaced it with a Seasonic S12. Seasonic is NOT CHEAP, btw. (Also isn't it ironic that one of the noisest PSUs and one of the quietest PSUs are made by the same manufacturer? ) However, I know PC P&C makes (Edit: umm... labels) some of the best quality PSUs (again, sans noise) and wouldn't hesitate recommending them for someone who are indifferent to noise. It's also the brand I'd choose for trouble-shooting if a system shows a PSU-related (which in itself is often very hard to isolate) stability issue. If Thermaltake or Enermax decides to have exclusives with Seasonic, does it make their PSUs same as PC P&C's PSUs? Not for me.

I mean, if we follow your logic a little bit further, there is no reason for individual PSU tests. All we have to do is to test a handful of PSUs that are manufactured from a handful of factories over the globe. I don't think that is a fair approach.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: lopri

I think this post of yours makes it very clear that you do not think PC P&C does design/engineer/manufacture their own products, but rather stick their labels on a Seasonic design/engineering/manufacturing under the exclusives. Am I correct? I just want to make sure if I understand your position correctly.

For the record, I still have not made my "position" clear. I neither mentioned PC Power and Cooling nor Seasonic in my post. I was merely suggesting to JediYoda how Galvanized's post is not as inaccurate as it seemed to be to him ("spin", as Jedi called it.)

Originally posted by: lopri

As far as this debate is concerned I rather think the whole argument from either side is somewhat moot. We all know the best memory IC for current production DDR2 is Micron D9. There are dozens of memory manufacturers that might buy chips or even pre-made sticks from Micron, then sell them with their stickers on. Does this make all the memory sticks the same? I don't think so. The SPD programming and binning, quality test as well as warranty/customer service are all discriminating factors for a brand. In that sense, if PC P&C performs more stringent quality test and back it up by their warranty, that itself is something worth paying extra and make PC P&C, well, PC P&C.

Excellent analogy. It wouldn't matter if Silencers came off the same line as Corsair PSU's, ultimately you still have a different product, with different specs, a different support system. There are way more varaibles than who's team of 14 year old Chinese women are putting the product together.

Originally posted by: lopri

Would I like a PC P&C PSU for my own rig? Hell, no. I purchased a 510 SLI like a year and a half ago and couldn't stand the noise, so replaced it with a Seasonic S12. Seasonic is NOT CHEAP, btw. (Also isn't it ironic that one of the noisest PSUs and one of the quietest PSUs are made by the same manufacturer? )

Well, it's not ironic because it's not true. The Silencers are ODM Seasonic while the Turbo-Cools are ODM Win-Tact. The Silencers really are quiet, especially for having an 80MM fan. The Turbo-Cools are based on a server platform and are made to have impecable voltage regulation, minimal ripple and, quite frankly, last forever even under heavy loads.

Originally posted by: lopri

I mean, if we follow your logic a little bit further, there is no reason for individual PSU tests. All we have to do is to test a handful of PSUs that are manufactured from a handful of factories over the globe. I don't think that is a fair approach.

It's not fair. Which is why you shouldn't "take my logic further." Then it becomes YOUR logic. Not mine.

Example: The Antec Trio is the cheapest thing I've seen come out of Seasonic's factory. Still better than anything I've seen come out of Deer's or Powmax's factory, but I'd hate to create an impression of an M12 or Corsair or PCP&C Silencer based on my impression of the Antec Trio.

My position still is: "What difference does it really make?" and "I think PCP&C protests too much." That's it. Don't try to read anymore into that then there already is.