PC Gaming On The New 1080P Displays.

[Murd0ck]

I have gone off the deep end and decided to buy one of the new 1080P sets for PC gaming.

I might get around to watching movies on the set someday, but the set will be primarily used as a monitor for PC/gaming.

I know there have been some discussions here about these 1080p sets and the lack of 1080p content ATM. This does not matter to me right now as I am only interested in gaming.

I am trying to decide between the Samsung HL-R5078W and the Sony KDS-R50XBR1.

The Sony will probably cost me about 1k more than the Sammy.

Both sets are listing a feature called 'game mode'?

Which set will display the best framerates when recieving uncompressed 1920x1080 from my PC?

Are all the new 1080p native displays able to meet the 1080/60 standard?

Is anyone able to get more than 60 fps @1080p on these new displays?

Is there a setting/app that would allow me to overclock the displays max refresh or fps to something higher than 1080p/60 and void my warranty to get a small performance increase? < just kidding, sort of.

Any advice, personal experience, or links to PC gaming reviews on these sets would be much appreciated. :beer:

One more card for SLI and one of these displays should make for the 'ultimate' gaming experience, for a few months anyway .

 

[xtknight]

As for the rate of video, you'd have to get the vertical refresh rate of each monitor. Unfortunately, neither list that.

Edit: actually Sony does on page 100 in this PDF. Oddly enough it only lists up to 1280x1024.
http://www.sonystyle.com/intershoproot/.../specifications/KDS-R50XBR1_manual.pdf
Samsung, pg. 130: http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/conte...0050621103649296_BP68-00513A-00Eng.pdf

Unfortunately neither have steller PC compatibility, but the Samsung at least supports 1920x1080/60 whereas the Sony doesn't support 1920x1080 at all.

Single link DVI on fully-DVI-compliant video card: 165 MHz
1920*1080*60=124.416000 MHz
1920*1080*75=155.520000 MHz

The good news is, if each display happens to support a 75 Hz refresh rate, single-link DVI will suffice.

I think the Samsung is a better choice.
1. I've never had a problem with any of their products.
2. DLP may look better than LCD, but I'm not sure.
3. It's cheaper.

I hope both of these support HDCP thru DVI/HDMI. You'll want it when you spend that much.

1080p native displays should display 1080/60, yes, unless they're not going by the ATSC standard.

No, you can't overclock DLPs or LCDs, I don't think. Some people have had luck with overclocking CRTs I think. In some cases the VESA info the TV sends may not send every last mode it supports and sometimes you can squeeze out a 75 Hz mode with PowerStrip.

 

[Murd0ck]

Thanks for the answers and explanations. I thought these would be good choices, but perhaps not?

I need to learn what is required for the best PC compatibility. I was assuming that PC video input = good PC compatibility?

I also need to find out the best method of transfer. DVI-HDMI-PC?

I think feeding the display through a DVI to HDMI cable would work well, but I just don't know.

The Sony does not support 1920x1080? Can you explain?

I have heard well of the Samsung, but I have also heard that the DLP tech will not be at it's best untill a '3 chip' design is used? I think this has something to do with the wobbulation? solution being inferior to a 3-chip system whatever that means.

I think the Samsung would be a good choice, but I have an offer from video manager at Sears to bring in my PC and 'test drive' the Sony.

They (Sears) Don't have the new Sammys yet and I wouldn't buy from Sears unless they came down on the price. But I know if I test drive that Sony I'm going to want to leave with it .

I need to check Best Buy,CC, etc. to see if they have the Samsung and would let me hook the PC up to it.

My card has 2 DVI outs so side by side would be the best possible comparison but that expecting a lot i suppose.

 

[xtknight]

Sure, they're good choices.
If the monitors support DVI (I think they do), just hook your PC directly up to that.

Well the Sony supports 1920x1080 for TV, but apparently not for the PC connection.

I thought the 3-chip DLP showed 35 trillion colors, costed way too much, and was for theaters only? I could be wrong but I don't think you'll be seeing 3-chip DLP in TVs any time soon. Like I said, I don't keep up on DLPs but that's what I inferred from TI's DLP site.

The burden of best PC compatibility lies on the TV itself (unless you have some external scaler that converts the source to 1080). Actually, relatively I think those TVs are fine. Other ones I've seen had worse PC compatibility, as in what signals from the PC it supports. Look in the resolution table on the PDFs I linked earlier and you'll see what I mean though. No support for a huge block of resolutions like 1600x1200.

 

[SickBeast]

Have you considered the Dell 2405FPW?

I have one, it runs 1920x1200. I have an Athlon XP Mobile at 2500mhz paired with an ATI X800Pro overclocked. I can run Half Life 2 and CS:S like butter with 2XAA/16XAF, but other games crawl at such a high resolution.

I would say that a 7800GT is the bare minimum to run one of these screens on if you're an avid gamer. Ideally right now I would get a 7800GT SLI setup for it.

 

[xtknight]

Dell 2405FPW - refresh table

1920*1200*75=172.800000 MHz

Unfortunately, you'd be out of luck doing >60 Hz on the Dell as well, but it would be better for PC compatibility.

I don't think even the upcoming Dells will have dual-link to support 1920x1200@75 Hz, but at least they will have HDCP, so I hear.

 

[GhostDoggy]

On the Sony (from their manual), the 1280x1024 restriction is for the PC Video input (input 8), which is a D-SUB HD15 VGA-style connector. This should not be to say that the HDMI inputs (input 6 & 7) cannot accept standard 1920x1080i input. The manual doesn't say if it can, or not, take 60P or just 60i. Of course, neither of these displays were designed for computer-centered applications and their modest abilities are centered on HD video.

 

[Dulanic]

Originally posted by: GhostDoggy
On the Sony (from their manual), the 1280x1024 restriction is for the PC Video input (input 8), which is a D-SUB HD15 VGA-style connector. This should not be to say that the HDMI inputs (input 6 & 7) cannot accept standard 1920x1080i input. The manual doesn't say if it can, or not, take 60P or just 60i. Of course, neither of these displays were designed for computer-centered applications and their modest abilities are centered on HD video.

According to what I have read on the avsforums, the Sony can NOT take a 1080p input, which seems kind of pointless to me, disappointing because it is by far the best picture quality out there IMO. All it does is deinterlace 1080i signals.

 

[tuteja1986]

so what TV has full 1080p support for computer

 

[Murd0ck]

I was hoping the Sony and/or the Samsung could support an uncompressed uninterlaced ? 1920x1080 feed through the HDMI and display it at 1080p.

I don't remember where or about which display I read this, but I was under the impression that while not supporting 1080p 'broadcasts'(cable,antenna,satellite)? it would support a 1080p direct feed? from something like a blu-ray or HD DVD or PC.

Maybe it's just wishfull thinking, but I can't see the sense in a new 1080p display not supporting 1080p?

I mean if it's able to de-interlace 1080i and display it as 1080p then you would think it would have no problems displaying non-interlaced or native 1080p/24/60 etc, as it would be doing less work.

Edit-
At least the Samsung will support 1920x1080@ 60Hz in pc display mode. I don't know if I want to game at 60Hz though.

Right now I use 1600x1200 @ 85Hz on the FE2111SB. Seems like the slower refresh would bother me after a few hours on my old CRT. I don't know would the DLP would have the same effect @60Hz?

 

[kylebisme]

The question is just whether or not the hardware is built to support such signals. Sure the display is 1080p but that is just because technologies like DLP and LCD are naturally progressive scan and it takes 1920x1080 pixels to fully resolve a 1080i image on a progressive scan display, so you build a progressive scan display for fully resolving 1080i content and you wind up with a display that is natively 1080p. However, most people don't hook up their TVs to their PCs, Blu-Ray and HD-DVD aren't even out yet and broadcast TV tops out at 1080i so there is currently very little demand for TVs that support 1080p input.

That said, your current setup isn't rightly suited for running at such a high resolution in a lot of newer games, and in such a situation you would likely want to be more concerned with being able to support resolutions like 1600x900 and 1360x768. It is also worth while to consider support for 4:3 resolutions between 800x600 and 2048x1536 in pillarboxed mode for as the higher ones come in handy for games that don't support widescreen resolutions and all the games that start up at 800x600 by defualt are going ot give you issues if your TV won't display that. Your conserns with framerate come into play here as well, since while most TVs highest support resolutions are maxed out at 60hz, lower resolutions can run at higher refresh rates on certain displays. Also, unless you are sitting about 6' or under from that 50" or have eyes of a hawk then a 1920x1080 native display is surely overkill anyway, so unless you just have your heart set on fully the ability to resolved 1080p then there are those other factors you may care to consider when using a TV as a PC monitor.

On, and LOL to the people recommending the 2405, I think that might be just a bit too small for what Murd0ck is after.

 

[yakapo99]

Check out the Westinghouse 37" LVM-37W1

can be found for around $1500

http://computershopper.com.com/Westingh...505-6482_7-31386643.html?tag=pdtl-list

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Murd0ck
Edit-
At least the Samsung will support 1920x1080@ 60Hz in pc display mode. I don't know if I want to game at 60Hz though.

Right now I use 1600x1200 @ 85Hz on the FE2111SB. Seems like the slower refresh would bother me after a few hours on my old CRT. I don't know would the DLP would have the same effect @60Hz?

By PC mode I'm pretty sure they mean the VGA input, which is where you find the vast majorty of support for 1080p/60. support for anything over 1080i on a dgital connection is far less common.

As for the refresh rates, that is a whole different ball game on a digital display. CRTs flicker in such a way that 60hz can be quite painful, while with digital displays you will still be limited out esentially 60 refreshes a second it won't have anything like the strobing effect of a CRT at the same refresh rate.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
As for the refresh rates, that is a whole different ball game on a digital display. CRTs flicker in such a way that 60hz can be quite painful, while with digital displays you will still be limited out esentially 60 refreshes a second it won't have anything like the strobing effect of a CRT at the same refresh rate.

Yeah, that's important to point out. Personally I wouldn't mind sacrificing the refresh rate to be able to game at such a high-res. The only time I can tell a difference is when I move my mouse on the desktop if I remember correctly.

 

[zephyrprime]

You seem really worried about the 60hz refresh rate but what's the big deal? Games don't have to run at vertical sync you know. And besides, almost everyone runs their computer lcds at 60hz.

Get the samsung. DLP has less burnin problems than LCOS. LCDs have burnin [albeit less than CRTs] problems despite what you may have been told. A LCOS with a high intensity light source may burn in faster.

 

[kylebisme]

Burn-in on an LCD or LCoS is something you'd pretty much have to work for to acomplish, heck even plasmas these days hardly have issues with burn-in even though they are still far more suseptable to it than other display deivces.

 

[Deinonych]

LCOS does not suffer from burn in. There have been some reports of temporary image retention on early LCOS sets, which were later determined to be defective.

And before you decide on a set, compare them side-by-side. I think you'll find the SXRD has a much better picture, blacker blacks, and no "screen door" effect. It's an amazing display, and well worth the premium IMO. Whether or not it is optimally suited as a PC display is debatable, however. I do know for a fact that you can display 1920x1080 output on the SXRD from a PC via DVI (using a DVI-HDMI cable).

 

[Murd0ck]

I need 1 more GTX for SLI and maybe upgrade my CPU to a 3700 San Diego. I plan on doing something like this anyway, but thought I would wait and see what the current setup can do @1920x1080.

F.E.A.R. @ 1280x960 4xAA 16xAF maxed settings.

Not too bad for a single card and a 3200 Winchester. I play it @16x12 and it is playable, but at a huge performance hit. Looks great though


F.E.A.R. @ 1600x1200 4xAA, 16xAF maxed settings

Most other games play much faster (60-70 fps on BF2 @16x12 4xAA 8xAF) for example.
So I should be ok until the U3 powered games come out.

I wish playing PC games on these big displays was more mainstream. Then perhaps there would be more comparisons/testing/reviews at some of these sites. That would be nice.

Maybe later this year after PS3 comes out. I can't wait that long anyway.

I do plan on sitting 4'-6' away from the display. Talk about immersion, I just hope I dont go blind or have too many seisures


Any sites out there reviewing these kind of displays for gaming?

AVS forums and Tiger Daves are helpfull, but I'm looking for more of a comparision/shootout type of review/s.

edit-

Deinonych, I also think the sony has a better picture. I just don't know if that translates when gaming. That is really a nice display I mean 1920x1080 native @ 50" with a 5 millisecond pixel response time?!

The technology has really come down in price also.

Crutchfield review.

 

[Deinonych]

You might check out the AVS Forum to see if anyone over there has used the SXRD as a PC display. I know there are a lot of SXRD owners over there, so surely someone has done it. Good luck!

 

[BenSkywalker]

Blu-Ray and HD-DVD aren't even out yet

BluRay has been our for a while now, it isn't a consumer device widely available in the US at the moment true, but it is certainly available.

In general- do you see the rainbow on DLPs? I didn't at first when I checked them out but after it was strongly reccomended to me I sat down and tried to watch a set for about ten minutes without looking away, I was about to puke after five.

 

[Murd0ck]

I found some info at AVS forums that has me leaning towards the Samsung DLP as it will support 1920x1080 through the PC (VGA) port.

The resolution support is also listed in the PDF user manual that xtknight linked to (had to install Acrobat) Thanks for the link anyway

Side note- I am doing this on my gaming rig with 10 gig partitions on my RAID0 so I really wanted to keep the extra applications to a minimum (Acrobat) Yeah I know thats definately my problem since I Haven't bought a KVM switch for my old Intel PC, LOL.

So at this point I am no longer considering the Sony. Unfortunate really, as the Sony probably has the best picture (movies) of all the current 1080p displays.

After reading up at AVS forums it seems the new 1080P by HP is the next best option as it is the only display that currently will accept 1080P via HDMI or from a PC it would be DVI to HDMI adapter in my case.

Interesting enough though I read at AVS forums that the HP would not accept 1080p through the PC (VGA) connection; however, it says in the PDF that it will, although the 1080p through the VGA is rated at 60Hz it's only supported at 24 and 30 fps. While the HDMI port provides 1080p at 24,30 and 60 fps with no mention of the refresh rate (I'm assuming it's 60Hz)

HP Pavilion MD5880n 58-inch 1080p Microdisplay TV

Hp specs PDF screenshot. (Acrobat Reader not required)

At this point I'm thinking the Samsung has the best picture of my available options while the HP has the best connectivity.

Sound about right?

The HP is 58" and I really don't want to go over 50". I think 40" would be ideal but I am not aware of any sub 50" 1080P DLP or tube sets.

I know I could go with the 37" inch Westinghouse LCD but being used to the CRT monitors and framerates at 60+ for FPS online gaming I'm not sure I would be happy with the 12ms response time on that one? Ghosting?

(the Sony LCOS was 5ms but it's no longer an option unfortunatley)

 

[ShadowBlade]

samsung, b/c sony probably came up with some way to DRM their TV's against showing images

 

[xtknight]

I think the Samsung DLP would give you the best picture.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Blu-Ray and HD-DVD aren't even out yet

BluRay has been our for a while now, it isn't a consumer device widely available in the US at the moment true, but it is certainly available.

The Blu-Ray that we will all be using in our PS3s and such isn't out yet. Yes there are Blu-Ray deivces out now but those are irrelvent in reguard to my point of why 1080p input isn't supported by many TVs.

 

[Murd0ck]

I just returned from CC where they had the Samsung DLP 60" 1080P display fed by a PC running COD2.

I watched as the salesman went to the game options and set the resolution to 1920x1080 with AA and AF maxed along with all the other settings.

I am unsure if the display was getting the feed through PC (VGA) or component.

The game looked amazing on the 61" DLP. I didn't notice any lag on either video or audio. I was close, less than 6' away.

I think seeing that has me sold. I would expect a slightly better picture on the 50" display only because it is slightly smaller.

I would think the pixel spacing might be even tighter on the 50" VS the 61",but I doubt my eyes would be able to discern the difference if there were any. My wallet however would be about 1500.00 lighter if I were to buy the 61"

So It's time to buy? Maybe I should wait till after Christmas? I have found some decent deals from a few e-tailers with good reseller ratings.

Anyone know of any likely pricing trends(on line) for this display say within the next 2-4 weeks?
(I noticed the salesman 'updating' the prices on the displays at CC most were going up about $100.0. LOL, the games people play.

Thanks for the advice guys. I will be posting some screens and photos in the next few weeks along with my experience/opinions.