PC gamers fuel hardware sales in otherwise stagnant market

[FalseChristian]

I've built every PC I've ever had except for the very 1st PC I got in 1998. Building your own system with parts that YOU want is very satisfying. And, plus, the PC is upgradable.

Consoles are for people who just want to blast things and couldn't care less about IQ and speed. Try playing a FPS on a console and then tell me the PC is inferior. Yeah, right.

 

[Veliko]

I've built every PC I've ever had except for the very 1st PC I got in 1998. Building your own system with parts that YOU want is very satisfying. And, plus, the PC is upgradable.

Consoles are for people who just want to blast things and couldn't care less about IQ and speed. Try playing a FPS on a console and then tell me the PC is inferior. Yeah, right.

Consoles are for people who want to play games. PCs are for people who want to play games.

That's about the long and short of it.

I too have been building my own PCs since around 2001 yet my favourite FPS game is Halo Reach.

 

[KlokWyze]

I game almost exclusively on consoles. My "gaming rigs" are really just mining rigs. I occasionally play on the PC, but I prefer a controller + couch + big screen + friends/big-community.

 

[Maximilian]

I've built every PC I've ever had except for the very 1st PC I got in 1998. Building your own system with parts that YOU want is very satisfying. And, plus, the PC is upgradable.

Consoles are for people who just want to blast things and couldn't care less about IQ and speed. Try playing a FPS on a console and then tell me the PC is inferior. Yeah, right.

PC is far more adaptable too, strategy games on a console always have been and always will be bollocks and i got my start on RTS with red alert 1 on the playstation. Not to mention all the free multiplayer games on PC, LoL, planetside 2, WoT.

 

[Aikouka]

I game almost exclusively on consoles. My "gaming rigs" are really just mining rigs. I occasionally play on the PC, but I prefer a controller + couch + big screen + friends/big-community.

I have all of that on my Gaming HTPC. 😛

 

[Zodiark1593]

Consoles are for people who want to play games. PCs are for people who want to play games.

That's about the long and short of it.

I too have been building my own PCs since around 2001 yet my favourite FPS game is Halo Reach.

I'm a PC enthusiast, and a game enthusiast, so PC gaming is pretty well a perfect fit for myself. That said though, my favorite RPG is Final Fantasy XII on the PS2 (Playstation 2, not Planetside 2).

 

[frozentundra123456]

Havent had an experience like that in well over a decade tbh. Things tend to "just work".

Yea, I used to have problems occasionally getting PC games to work, but recently cant remember any game that has not worked properly on the first try. Usually I do spend some time setting graphics options however, as the default one seldom seem correct.

 

[natto fire]

Just take a look at the Steam forums and BF3 forums to see how untypical your example is.

Kind of hard to have an argument about the value of time and then suggest someone reads a bunch of threads to research problems they are not experiencing, don't you think?

I personally have had very few problems with PC games compared to "the good old days". I always get a chuckle out of these threads that usually devolve into my gaming platform can beat up your gaming platform, riddled with fallacies.

Not saying your post goes that far, but just a reminder that smart people draw conclusions from their own experiences. If doing research, yeah forums are great as a litmus of how problematic a game is, but in the end my experience will outweigh every person's on the internet when it comes to playing a game, for me.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Last problem I had installing a game was my IBM PC running windows 95.

 

[Veliko]

Kind of hard to have an argument about the value of time and then suggest someone reads a bunch of threads to research problems they are not experiencing, don't you think?

I personally have had very few problems with PC games compared to "the good old days". I always get a chuckle out of these threads that usually devolve into my gaming platform can beat up your gaming platform, riddled with fallacies.

Not saying your post goes that far, but just a reminder that smart people draw conclusions from their own experiences. If doing research, yeah forums are great as a litmus of how problematic a game is, but in the end my experience will outweigh every person's on the internet when it comes to playing a game, for me.

Smart people draw conclusions from a number of experiences.

The discussion I was involved in was started off by someone saying "Why do people still think console gaming is cheaper than PC gaming?"

If you follow it on from that point - rather than just taking one particular post - then you'll see that there's nothing wrong with anything I said.

 

[irishScott]

Yea, I used to have problems occasionally getting PC games to work, but recently cant remember any game that has not worked properly on the first try. Usually I do spend some time setting graphics options however, as the default one seldom seem correct.

This, and I bet your average console gamer would be too lazy and easily frustrated to google their monitor's native resolution. Let alone the other settings. ZOMG I HAS TO LARN MSAA? AND WTF IS A TECH-SCHTUR...? 😛

Granted that's painting with a broad stroke, but I've never understood the obsession with plug-and-play. I can certainly see the benefits and enjoy it when it's done right, but a ton of people out there absolutely DEMAND it otherwise they won't bother. You could offer them a brand new Lexus for $10,000, and they'll take the $15,000 Camry because it has an automatic transmission.

 

[irishScott]

Last problem I had installing a game was my IBM PC running windows 95.

The issue is old games for me. I still can't get Myst to run at all on Windows 7 64, despite trying every compatibility guide on the internet. 😛

 

[Veliko]

This, and I bet your average console gamer would be too lazy and easily frustrated to google their monitor's native resolution. Let alone the other settings. ZOMG I HAS TO LARN MSAA? AND WTF IS A TECH-SCHTUR...? 😛

Granted that's painting with a broad stroke, but I've never understood the obsession with plug-and-play. I can certainly see the benefits and enjoy it when it's done right, but a ton of people out there absolutely DEMAND it otherwise they won't bother. You could offer them a brand new Lexus for $10,000, and they'll take the $15,000 Camry because it has an automatic transmission.

Erm, yes?

People have been willing to pay for convenience for millennia.

Computer games are entertainment, nothing more. Given the amount of systems that are now available to play games on, it's entirely understandable that someone might choose what is convenient.

 

[irishScott]

Erm, yes?

People have been willing to pay for convenience for millennia.

Computer games are entertainment, nothing more. Given the amount of systems that are now available to play games on, it's entirely understandable that someone might choose what is convenient.

And paying for convenience is fine in general, I'm just saying that a lot of people's convenience thresholds are laughably low. They're sacrificing significant features (better graphics, in some cases better controls, free multiplayer, etc) for the "convenience" of not making 1 google search and reading 1 paragraph of the first result. Or God forbid having to restart the game 2 or 3 times to find the right graphics pre-set.

And this mentality goes far beyond video games. It's amazing how people will put up with hundreds of hours on shitty equipment and bitch about it to no end when they could have rolled up their sleeves, done some minor research and likely fixed the problem in 6 hours or less.

 

[Veliko]

And paying for convenience is fine in general, I'm just saying that a lot of people's convenience thresholds are laughably low. They're sacrificing significant features (better graphics, in some cases better controls, free multiplayer, etc) for the "convenience" of not making 1 google search and reading 1 paragraph of the first result. Or God forbid having to restart the game 2 or 3 times to find the right graphics pre-set.

You are purposefully playing up the advantages whilst also purposefully playing down the maintenance and knowledge required.

A fix is only one Google search away if you know what you're looking for and faffing about with the graphics setting instead of just being able to play the game is most people's idea of hell.

And this mentality goes far beyond video games. It's amazing how people will put up with hundreds of hours on shitty equipment and bitch about it to no end when they could have rolled up their sleeves, done some minor research and likely fixed the problem in 6 hours or less.

Six hours? Who on earth wants to spend that long fixing a household appliance?

 

[irishScott]

You are purposefully playing up the advantages whilst also purposefully playing down the maintenance and knowledge required.

A fix is only one Google search away if you know what you're looking for and faffing about with the graphics setting instead of just being able to play the game is most people's idea of hell.



Six hours? Who on earth wants to spend that long fixing a household appliance?

Then apparently most people's idea of hell is playing a board game with their family, because last I checked setting up the board, dealing out the money and teaching the rules of Monopoly to someone who's never played it before takes significantly longer than messing around with graphics settings.

And fine, say 3 google searches for someone completely out of the know.
1. What is monitor resolution?
2. What is my monitor's resolution?
*looks at name of monitor clearly printed on frame*
3. What is *monitor designation* resolution?

And then for most modern games it's low, medium, high, ultra graphics presets if they don't want to mess around with the particulars.

The difference is that most people learn how to play board games when they're little kids. It's something they can comprehend and they know where to start. But if you give them something new to learn? ZOMG HOLY SHIT I DON'T KNOW I CAN'T EVEN BEAR TO LOOK AT THIS AHHHHHHHHH FRUSTRATION!!!

Too many adults seem to have this knowledge-entitlement personality. They expect to know at least the basics of everything and get implacably frustrated when they're confronted with the possibility of using the learning center of their brain again.

Seriously, I was figuring out the basics of this stuff in 8th grade on an old Windows 98 box, and I'm no super-genius or savant. Hell I got a C+ in Algebra I at the time. But apparently what I could handle as an 8th grader is just too much for most adults, not because of capability, but because they can't get past their egos.

It's rare for a modern game to be unplayable due to bugs out of the box. In fact I haven't experienced it with any of the 50 or so games I bought off steam, including older titles that have to run on steam's embedded DOSBox installation.



As for who would want to spend 6 hours or less researching and making a basic repair on a car, appliance, computer, or other equipment? Someone who'd like to save thousands or tens thousands of dollars in labor and/or equipment charges (over the course of a lifetime), gain useful knowledge, and not endure working with shitty half-broken equipment on a daily basis for however many weeks, months or years it takes for it to finally die.

But that's too long-term for most people I guess. Frankly I'm waiting to hear someone bitching about how horrid light-switches are while simultaneously complaining about how "hard" it would be to replace them with motion sensor switches.


Edit: Actually, scratch those 3 google searches. I just searched for "What is monitor resolution" and this was results number 2: http://www.whatismyscreenresolution.com/

 

[KlokWyze]

I have all of that on my Gaming HTPC. 😛

Yeah I'm looking to setup a Windows/Steam box w/ a good PC controller to play all the awesome indie titles of the past few years.

Anyone have any recommendations for good PC controllers? Or is the best the Xbox 360?

 

[Aikouka]

Anyone have any recommendations for good PC controllers? Or is the best the Xbox 360?

The 360 controller seems to have the best support right now. If you want wireless, make sure to pick up at least one of the XBOX 360 Wireless Controller for Windows packages as it includes the RF adapter that you need. According to CamelCamelCamel, the current price is actually pretty good, so you wouldn't go wrong picking one up. Although, that just shows Amazon's price.

My only complaint is that it isn't as easy to see your battery level. There is an application that can do it for you, but I don't recall it being that good. It is separate from the driver (that will install with Windows Update). Also, the only way to turn off the controller is to yank the battery pack. It's easy to do, but still seems awkward!

 

[PowerYoga]

Also, the only way to turn off the controller is to yank the battery pack. It's easy to do, but still seems awkward!

Mine turns off when you leave it unattended for a bit.

 

[Dankk]

Yeah I'm looking to setup a Windows/Steam box w/ a good PC controller to play all the awesome indie titles of the past few years.

Anyone have any recommendations for good PC controllers? Or is the best the Xbox 360?

A wired 360 controller for sure.

 

[Veliko]

Then apparently most people's idea of hell is playing a board game with their family, because last I checked setting up the board, dealing out the money and teaching the rules of Monopoly to someone who's never played it before takes significantly longer than messing around with graphics settings.

This is an absurd comparison. Teaching friends and family how to play a board game is all about social interaction.

And fine, say 3 google searches for someone completely out of the know.
1. What is monitor resolution?
2. What is my monitor's resolution?
*looks at name of monitor clearly printed on frame*
3. What is *monitor designation* resolution?

And then for most modern games it's low, medium, high, ultra graphics presets if they don't want to mess around with the particulars.

If a game isn't working, why would a non-technical person think to search for those three things in the first place?

The difference is that most people learn how to play board games when they're little kids. It's something they can comprehend and they know where to start. But if you give them something new to learn? ZOMG HOLY SHIT I DON'T KNOW I CAN'T EVEN BEAR TO LOOK AT THIS AHHHHHHHHH FRUSTRATION!!!

Too many adults seem to have this knowledge-entitlement personality. They expect to know at least the basics of everything and get implacably frustrated when they're confronted with the possibility of using the learning center of their brain again.

What does any of this even mean? Once again, you sound surprised that when someone buys something they want it to just work.

Seriously, I was figuring out the basics of this stuff in 8th grade on an old Windows 98 box, and I'm no super-genius or savant. Hell I got a C+ in Algebra I at the time. But apparently what I could handle as an 8th grader is just too much for most adults, not because of capability, but because they can't get past their egos.

Why are you so desperate to prove yourself?

As for who would want to spend 6 hours or less researching and making a basic repair on a car, appliance, computer, or other equipment? Someone who'd like to save thousands or tens thousands of dollars in labor and/or equipment charges (over the course of a lifetime), gain useful knowledge, and not endure working with shitty half-broken equipment on a daily basis for however many weeks, months or years it takes for it to finally die.

But that's too long-term for most people I guess. Frankly I'm waiting to hear someone bitching about how horrid light-switches are while simultaneously complaining about how "hard" it would be to replace them with motion sensor switches.

So which household appliances have you actually fixed yourself then?

Would you open up your toaster and fix it?
Your oven?
Microwave?
TV?
Fridge?
Dishwasher?

 

[Sulaco]

This is an absurd comparison. Teaching friends and family how to play a board game is all about social interaction.



If a game isn't working, why would a non-technical person think to search for those three things in the first place?



What does any of this even mean? Once again, you sound surprised that when someone buys something they want it to just work.



Why are you so desperate to prove yourself?



So which household appliances have you actually fixed yourself then?

Would you open up your toaster and fix it?
Your oven?
Microwave?
TV?
Fridge?
Dishwasher?

You are drastically underselling the technical capability of someone interested enough in gaming as a hobby to maintain a PC.

PC's, including the building, maintaining, and using, have gotten easier to use and less complicated and trouble-filled. While at the same time, the technical proficiency of the average end user has increased several fold. The proliferation of gadgets and tech in everyday, "non-tech-geek" life has exploded.

The absolute dominance of smart phones and the internet abilities even amongst the non-technical is something that ten years ago, when driver conflicts and CtD errors were rampant, would have been serious obstacles. Now, everyone can navigate the internet on their phone, and the comfort level with technology is ever increasing.

Your argument is still valid for some (how many is anyone's guess), but becoming less and less relevant with each passing day.

 

[Veliko]

You are drastically underselling the technical capability of someone interested enough in gaming as a hobby to maintain a PC.

I'm not even talking about those people and the discussion you replied to was about people not wanting to deal with that kind of thing.

PC's, including the building, maintaining, and using, have gotten easier to use and less complicated and trouble-filled. While at the same time, the technical proficiency of the average end user has increased several fold. The proliferation of gadgets and tech in everyday, "non-tech-geek" life has exploded.

The absolute dominance of smart phones and the internet abilities even amongst the non-technical is something that ten years ago, when driver conflicts and CtD errors were rampant, would have been serious obstacles. Now, everyone can navigate the internet on their phone, and the comfort level with technology is ever increasing.

Your argument is still valid for some (how many is anyone's guess), but becoming less and less relevant with each passing day.

It isn't, because you don't seem to realise why people are buying those things.

Smart phones and tablets have become prevalent because they're simple devices that don't have the complications inherent with a PC.

 

[irishScott]

This is an absurd comparison. Teaching friends and family how to play a board game is all about social interaction.

True, but my point is it takes much more time/effort than messing with graphics settings.

If a game isn't working, why would a non-technical person think to search for those three things in the first place?

I'm assuming the game is working, but defaults are below spec, and assuming the person notices something's off. As I said, technically non-startable games are a rarity, and game-ending bugs are typically quickly patched. Factor in steam (which is what a non-technical user would gravitate towards) and patching is literally effortless.

What does any of this even mean? Once again, you sound surprised that when someone buys something they want it to just work.

It means that to a lot of people I've witnessed learning is anathema for some reason. Expecting things to "just work" in my experience is, with the exception of simple machines and basic electronics, like expecting a car to run forever without an oil change.

Shit happens, and most people aren't emotionally prepared to deal with it; even if they have the raw capability.

Why are you so desperate to prove yourself?

I'm not, I was preemptively disproving a point in case you came back with something like "well just because you get computers doesn't mean everyone else does." As a result you came back with something even weaker, so it would appear my preemptive counter-argument succeeded. 😉

So which household appliances have you actually fixed yourself then?

Would you open up your toaster and fix it?
Your oven?
Microwave?
TV?
Fridge?
Dishwasher?

Assuming I could figure out what the problem potentially was (probably by extensive googling) and assuming I judged the repair within my capability, I'd open up anything and try to repair it before buying a new item or contacting a professional.

Specifically:
Toaster? Never needed to.
Oven? Never needed to.
Microwave? Tried once, discovered catastrophically defective component that I couldn't fix or cost-effectively replace. Took less than 6 hours.
TV? Never needed to.
Fridge? Once, vacuumed thick layer of dust off of old coils to stop over-heating of compressor. "Repair" took little more than a screw driver, vacuum cleaner and a few minutes. Research took less than an hour.

Hot water heater? To a degree. Reinforced the connections of a solenoid such that it lasted several more months and got much quieter. Involved little more than unplugging it while I adjusted the position of an unstable plug for an hour or so. Had it replaced by a professional because my dad insisted (said water heater is at my dad's place, and he's a tad paranoid) but if my water heater ever needs replacing I intend to replace it myself.

Laptop? Freshman year in college I committed a self-inflicted wound by taking my computer apart to see what was inside. In the process I accidentally ripped the thick thermal tape that connected the heat sink to the components. Was out of warranty, had a hard time finding replacement tape, so I posted a thread here (one of my initial contacts with AT), got a referral to some quality thermal tape, ordered it, installed it a week later. Laptop lasted 5 more years off of that repair.

Washing machine? Replaced the supply hoses when they were leaking. Now have flood-safe hoses.

Computers? I've fixed too many minor issues with my family and friends' hardware, software, and other non-issues (like setting up email accounts, basic wireless networks) to count.

Car? I replace my own batteries and top-off my own fluids. Once I get a decent-sized garage I'll learn how to change my own oil.

xBox? Recently inherited this. It's not turning on (not even responding to power switch in any way) so I'm going to start by opening it up and taking my multimeter to the various components of the power supply. Granted this is more technical than your average user is likely prepared for.

I could go on, but suffice it to say I at least attempt to fix anything that doesn't involve multi-hundred dollar equipment or components.




My overriding point is that a lot of people don't just "expect things to work", but they're absolutely emotionally helpless when things don't work (which happens more often than not IMO); To the point where they'll waste time and money either enduring half-broken equipment or calling some overpriced repair guy. That irks me. Especially when I learn of it after the fact and think "god, if they'd only googled it for 10 minutes and then drove 20 minutes to spend $20 at Home Depot."

 

[Sulaco]

Smart phones and tablets have become prevalent because they're simple devices that don't have the complications inherent with a PC.

Whatever the reason, those devices are becoming more and more a part of everyday life, leading to a much more technically proficient user base.

And again, your argument is still progressively less and less valid as time goes on. The simple fact is that consoles are becoming more complicated and *gasp* PC-like, PC's are becoming easier to use and less troublesome, and the population is becoming more technically proficient all-around.