[PC Gamer] Your Nvidia card may not be giving full RGB over HDMI, test and fix

[Deders]

It will only compress if you are using the full range on a narrow range TV (or monitor)

 

[bystander36]

Post the test image you're using.

The problem I think we are all having is exactly what the problem is. It has been explained in 2 ways. 1 way cannot be tested in the manner given.

If the lows and highs are clipped, then the test would work, but if it is compressed, the test image does not give us a way to actually test the problem.

 

[Morbus]

Post the test image you're using.

Dude, are you joking? I can do my own test images, don't you get it?

Even so, here is the test image I initially saw:

http://i.imgur.com/Bw61l68.jpg

The problem I think we are all having is exactly what the problem is. It has been explained in 2 ways. 1 way cannot be tested in the manner given.

If the lows and highs are clipped, then the test would work, but if it is compressed, the test image does not give us a way to actually test the problem.

I can understand that. But then the issue would be simply of having slightly less vibrant colors and/or blacks and whites.

I've tried it out with a DVI cable and a HDMI cable, and I GUARANTEE there is absolutely no different in color quality. If anything, I'd say the DVI cable is a bit less vibrant, but that just might be my mind playing tricks.

You don't have to believe me though. Not only there's no reason to, but also the fact that I'm not experiencing any degradation of color quality over HDMI doesn't mean others won't. My only suggestion in all this is stay the [redacted] away from aditional software that you don't use, and that includes nvida experience and AMD's control panel. Seriously, step AWAY from the nvidia experience. It's totally pointless.


That type of language is not permitted here in the technical forums even though it is incorrectly spelled.

-Rvenger

 

[bystander36]

I can understand that. But then the issue would be simply of having slightly less vibrant colors and/or blacks and whites.

While it isn't the end of the world, and this is likely why almost no one has really complained about this, it would still be nice to have the more vibrant colors. And with some brightness/contrast settings, the problem may not seem as big, but I wouldn't mind if it was fixed either. Though by the report, my setup will not be changed.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Dude, are you joking? I can do my own test images, don't you get it?

You claim you had a 256 grey scale image and you examined every shade to make sure they were all distinguishable. What's the big deal saving it as a PNG and posting it?

...and I GUARANTEE there is absolutely no different in color quality. If anything, I'd say the DVI cable is a bit less vibrant

I don't understand, you're saying there is no difference but there is a difference?

Even then I can see the difference between colors just TWO values away from each other. All the way from 0 to 255. I just tried it, and even though it's hard to see, I do definitely notice the difference.

 

[Teizo]

Just wanted to add that the new GeForce Driver 347.09 gives the option now to move from limited range RGB to full range RGB in the 'color settings' options in the control panel. To my eye, there is no difference between full range RGB and YCbCr444, and the YCbCr444 option has always been there...but, for the purist it is a good option to have.

You do not have to install GeForce Experience as I recall someone saying earlier.

Not sure if this information has already been mentioned or not, but thought I'd share.

 

[Mem]

I had the RGB limited issue problem when I was using Nvidia via HDMI,fix is downloading third party software,good article here https://pcmonitors.info/articles/correcting-hdmi-colour-on-nvidia-and-amd-gpus/#!prettyPhoto


I'm on AMD now which is done easily via their driver control panel.
My monitor has the option for both full RGB and limited range(BenQ monitor 8 bit AMVA panel).

 

[Morbus]

I stand corrected on my previous stantement about nvidia experience.

I just tried YCbCr444 in my control panel and it's worse than RGB. Different shades of black are less different and I can't see the difference between the two black squares in the test image posted above.

 

[Deders]

Just wanted to add that the new GeForce Driver 347.09 gives the option now to move from limited range RGB to full range RGB in the 'color settings' options in the control panel. To my eye, there is no difference between full range RGB and YCbCr444, and the YCbCr444 option has always been there...but, for the purist it is a good option to have.

Interesting, when I switched to YCbCr444 I could definitely tell the difference, everything looked grainier and slightly washed, almost like an old TV. I could definitely see the reduced colour range.

 

[Mem]

Just wanted to add that the new GeForce Driver 347.09 gives the option now to move from limited range RGB to full range RGB in the 'color settings' options in the control panel. To my eye, there is no difference between full range RGB and YCbCr444, and the YCbCr444 option has always been there...but, for the purist it is a good option to have.

You do not have to install GeForce Experience as I recall someone saying earlier.

Not sure if this information has already been mentioned or not, but thought I'd share.

Difference here in this older article,

As you can see there some slight differences here and there but nothing of huge significance. After selecting the ‘YCbCr444’ colour signal the resolutions will be listed in exactly the same way by the driver, so will remain in the ‘Ultra HD, HD, SD’ list if that’s where they were before. Because the ‘Full Range RGB (0-255)’ signal is used for DVI and most DisplayPort connections you may prefer to enforce this instead of using ‘YCbCr444’, just so you know things are being done ‘the right way’. Our preferred method of enforcing the correct ‘Full Range RGB’ signal over HDMI is to use a nifty little tool mentioned below.

https://pcmonitors.info/articles/correcting-hdmi-colour-on-nvidia-and-amd-gpus/#!prettyPhoto

 

[Mem]

Interesting, when I switched to YCbCr444 I could definitely tell the difference, everything looked grainier and slightly washed, almost like an old TV. I could definitely see the reduced colour range.

They had same conclusion,

Unlike Nvidia’s ‘Limited Range RGB (16-235)’ signal AMD’s default ‘YCbCr 4:4:4’ signal never causes things to look washed out by dramatically altering gamma or contrast. But it does slightly affect colour values so some shades are presented slightly differently to how they would over a DVI or DisplayPort connection (i.e. ‘correct’). And as with Nvidia cards, this signal type can cause a minority of monitors to display blurred or ‘fringed’ text where certain colours are involved. Most users will probably be quite happy to stick with this default signal, but it is actually very simple to change the signal used using one of two methods.

https://pcmonitors.info/articles/correcting-hdmi-colour-on-nvidia-and-amd-gpus/#!prettyPhoto

Anyway very good article IMHO.

 

[Teizo]

I stand corrected on my previous stantement about nvidia experience.

I just tried YCbCr444 in my control panel and it's worse than RGB. Different shades of black are less different and I can't see the difference between the two black squares in the test image posted above.

What type of monitor are you using?

I am using an IPS monitor? Are you using a TN monitor?

I wonder if that is part of the problem.

Full Range RGB with the new driver is definitely better than default (obviously), but as mentioned...while there may be technical differences betweeen YCbCr444 that can be measured, to my eye, I can't tell the difference on my Acer H236HL.

 

[tential]

I stand corrected on my previous stantement about nvidia experience.

I just tried YCbCr444 in my control panel and it's worse than RGB. Different shades of black are less different and I can't see the difference between the two black squares in the test image posted above.

Rgb is more vibrant for me but I calibrated based on ycbcr 444 and not sure what to do now.

Not sure how to recalibrate for rgb

 

[Morbus]

What type of monitor are you using?

I am using an IPS monitor? Are you using a TN monitor?

I wonder if that is part of the problem.

Full Range RGB with the new driver is definitely better than default (obviously), but as mentioned...while there may be technical differences betweeen YCbCr444 that can be measured, to my eye, I can't tell the difference on my Acer H236HL.

I'm on an IPS monitor as well.

LG Flatron IPS234.

 

[Cerb]

I've been trying so hard for years to bring this to gamers' attention, not because I want to crap on NV or something but because I want all of us to have accurate colours in games, movies and desktop usage after we pay $ for graphics cards. For me the most basic functions of a videocard are presentation of accurate colours and high clarity. If you can't get that right, everything else falls apart no matter the FPS or performance/$ or performance/watt.

This Full RGB fix for NV should be a sticky at the top of VC&G forum for every new NV user running HDMI.

It should be an easily changeable setting, regardless, and should never have been a hidden default (IE, there should have been an easy to find checkbox, and preferably some additional detection for being a non-TV). It's a usability issue that should have gotten decent priority, and would have been very easy for them to implement, years ago.

Easy solution: use DVI.

Impossible solution. I didn't realize the problem was still around until I hooked it up, but I did know what it was and what to do, which I don't expect most users to.

It blows my mind that manufacturers have not figured out how to prevent backlight bleeding and uniformity issues this far into the life of LCD technology.

$$$

I'm tying this on a 8+ year old PVA 19" monitor, with zero backlight bleed, no easily identifiable unevenness. LED optics should be capable of that just as well as CCFL, if not even easier. Some monitors probably do it, but at costs we prefer not to pay (I think this one was $600-800 when new). No backlight bleed is nice, but not my highest priority for a PC monitor. So, they can sell monitors with some.

This is because the LCD panel will always have a certain amount of translucency, so there is always a certain amount of backlight leakage throughout the entire screen (this is a fundamental limitation of LCD technology).

To pick nits, it's fundamental to panels that need backlights. Monochrome transflective STN FTW (actually, sunlight readability did lead to choose a few, but not for PC use)!