PBS hacked because of Frontline Wikileaks episode

[nobodyknows]

Thanks for defending our freedoms against the Empire of Afghanistan, their troops were so close to invading. It would have been WWII all over again, maybe a WWII+1. Possibly a 3. Definitely not a III though.

Thank god you slaughtered all those impoverished Afghani civilians who were encroaching on our freedoms, you are a true American hero.

Don't you guys have a federal building or two to blow up?

 

[nobodyknows]

Why do you think 9/11 happened?

What's more important, why it happened or stopping it from happening on a regular basis?

 

[BoberFett]

If our government wants to get minimize the effect of wikileaks, they simply need to stop being such corrupt, evil bastards and only keep those things secret which are truly necessary. When they try to cover up their misdeeds by classifying them as national secrets, it makes everything they keep a secret look suspect.

 

[BoberFett]

I'm betting you didn't feel that way right after 9/11 or were you glad that so many innocent americans were killed by cowards hiding in caves (and mansions)?

again, inb4 conspiracy BS.

9/11 was only an impact because we allowed it to be. More people die in swimming pools every year than died on 9/11. The US is a joke now because small little people like you are afraid of everything.

Did it suck that terrorists killed a few thousand Americans? Yup. Was it worth spending hundreds of billions of dollars and instituting ridiculous new laws and pointless security theater? Nope.

Hell, the stupid War on Terror has killed more Americans than the terrorists themselves. What kind of fucking sense does that make?

This country is full of illogical morons, it's only a matter of time before it collapses anyway.

 

[Infohawk]

9/11 was only an impact because we allowed it to be. More people die in swimming pools every year than died on 9/11. The US is a joke now because small little people like you are afraid of everything.

Did it suck that terrorists killed a few thousand Americans? Yup. Was it worth spending hundreds of billions of dollars and instituting ridiculous new laws and pointless security theater? Nope.

Hell, the stupid War on Terror has killed more Americans than the terrorists themselves. What kind of fucking sense does that make?

This country is full of illogical morons, it's only a matter of time before it collapses anyway.

Invading Iraq over 9/11 was dumb. But you acting like it represents the same kind of threat as swimming pool deaths is just as stupid.

 

[BoberFett]

Invading Iraq over 9/11 was dumb. But you acting like it represents the same kind of threat as swimming pool deaths is just as stupid.

Swimming pools kill more Americans EVERY YEAR than the terrorists have since 9/11.

Now, using some very basic logic and knowing that time and money are limited resources, would our military and economic resources have saved more lives by being spent hunting terrorists or filling in swimming pools?

There are so many ways that people die in vast numbers other than terrorists, anyone who is being logical and honest has no choice but to admit the War on Terror has been a complete misallocation of time and money. $1T would have paid for an awful lot of cancer research.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

What's more important, why it happened or stopping it from happening on a regular basis?

Think its pretty obvious from a mistake proofing perspective, root cause will reveal what needs to be done to prevent something from happening again.

 

[zinfamous]

Swimming pools kill more Americans EVERY YEAR than the terrorists have since 9/11.

Now, using some very basic logic and knowing that time and money are limited resources, would our military and economic resources have saved more lives by being spent hunting terrorists or filling in swimming pools?

There are so many ways that people die in vast numbers other than terrorists, anyone who is being logical and honest has no choice but to admit the War on Terror has been a complete misallocation of time and money. $1T would have paid for an awful lot of cancer research.

BobberFett makes a really good point.

The mroe I think about it, the reality is that responding to 9-11 exactly as we did--invading Afghanistan, hightened security everywhere, The Admins happily injecting the culture of fear into us as a more permanent state of being...all of this was AQ's goal.

Essentially, they won the moment Bush opened his big fat mouth. Did they overextend their ambitions and thus drastically reduce their long-term effectiveness? very likely. While the organization will likely never recover the type of power and ability they wielded prior to 9-11, the succeeded in reaching all of their goals with that operation. Perhaps far more than they even imagined.

Iraq is simply icing on the cake--but that's more our fault for letting Cheney et al. derail all efforts against AQ--the fact that a majority of Americans, at that time--were CONVINCED that this had something to do with AQ is appalling. It was appalling to many of us at the time, far mroe now, of course--but looking back now, the idiocy of the general public and willingness to be spoon fed blatant lies about those issues is simply sickening.

 

[Craig234]

What's more important, why it happened or stopping it from happening on a regular basis?

The logic of tyranny. Why people resist doesn't matter - all that matters is using more force to defeat any resistance.

Works for, say, Pinochet in Chile - everyone knows if you resist any of the corrupt policies and exploitation of citizens, you will be 'disappeared' and tortured.

Just do that, and don't consider actually doing anything about why they're revolting.

Al Queda could be murderous religious fanatics without a reasonable agenda.

But as one, they were able to USE the 'legitimate grievances', the resistance of the people to wrongs, to have more support than they would.

They weren't very good at it, and the Muslim people largely saw through their trying to use other people's issues, like trying to use the 'Arab Spring'. Al Queda was pretty limited where they could operate. But the Taliban can operate pretty freely with popular support, and the approach of the quoted poster drives more and more citizens who have been wronged by that approach into the arms of the resistance.

That approach of the quoted poster has been used a lot; for example, Egypt had no shortage of police state measures and torture for resisters.

As that poster would say, what's more important, why the Egyptian people are revolting, or preventing them from revolting? Call out the military! Kill them!

Except the military did not take the orders of Mubarak to 'prevent more revolting', and we all cheered the people being able to get rid of a tyrant.

One the poster I quote above would have kept in power, asking how to prevent the revolts, not why they happened.

He think 'why it happened' doesn't have to do with 'preventing another one'. Sometimes it does. Not always - Al Queda might have tried to do that for things that aren't ones to address, trying to stimulate western-Muslim conflict - but it doesn't hurt to find out what the people's protests are about. Other times it's Mubarak's Egypt. But other times, the military doesn't refuse to take orders to use force on the citizens.

The quoted poster doesn't seem to care about that, about the people oppressed. No wonder regimes like Mubarak could keep power for decades. Or Marcos, or Batista, or Somoza, or the Duvaliers, or the Shah, or the Ayatollahs, or Pinochet, or El Salvador's tyrants, or Honduras' tyrants, or Apartheid, or the Chinese communists, or the USSR's shield states, or Africa's tyrants, and on and on.

 

[Zebo]

You guys have seen nothing yet. I wonder if there is any pissed off brothers or sons who spend every waking hour plotting their revenge for machine gunning their relative who was just going to work? What happens when Pakistan goes fundi? This was not called "Greatest Strategic Disaster in our history" by General Odem for nothing you know... We are just getting started in this war.

Or do you think you can kill a million people for no good reason and displace another 5-7 million with zero blowback?

 

[Infohawk]

Swimming pools kill more Americans EVERY YEAR than the terrorists have since 9/11.

And that's likely due in part to the amount of money spent on counter-terrorism. But I'm guessing that you and Zinfamous don't think domestic counter-terrorism and security measures accomplished much in the past ten years. I've never been sure how wikileaks-style hipsters are always so sure of that fact but it's usually underlying their beliefs. Correct me if that's not your belief though.

Swimming pools don't intend to kill anyone. Islamic terrorists do. If we do nothing about swimming pools, the damage is limited. If we do nothing about Islamic terrorists, the death toll would be much higher. So you should be comparing the number of potential pool deaths to the number of deaths from terrorism if nothing was done to stop it. You're similar to a person complaining that they've wasted money on car insurance because they haven't gotten in an accident in the past ten years.

 

[Zebo]

You're similar to a person complaining that they've wasted money on car insurance because they haven't gotten in an accident in the past ten years.

They are. Million dollar insurance executive salaries a huge glass building they reside in arnt from making you profit off policy. For the record I carry no full coverage on cars, boats or anything else but house and only because my wife makes me. Bad math. Ever wonder why big business is self insured?.. they understand actuarials insurance companies figure are not in your favor.

 

[BoberFett]

How many terrorists have been stopped inside the US? Shouldn't there be monthly or weekly reports about these dangerous Muslims being thwarted by heroic anti-terrorist agencies? Why isn't the government touting their massive successes in domestic security? What do they have to show for 10 years and $1T dollars? Some doofus in Portland and an idiot with a flaming shoe on a plane. Seriously? That's it? So since 9/11...


Terrorists Stopped On US Soul: 2
Americans Killed By 9/11 Hijackers: 2,900
Soldiers Killed Overseas: 4,500
Americans Killed By Swimming Pools: 35,000
Americans Dead From Cancer: 5,800,000
Look on peoples faces when you confront them with facts and logic: Priceless

There are somethings money can't buy. For everything else, there's Uncle Sam's credit card.

 

[Infohawk]

They are. Million dollar insurance executive salaries a huge glass building they reside in arnt from making you profit off policy. For the record I carry no full coverage on cars, boats or anything else but house and only because my wife makes me. Bad math. Ever wonder why big business is self insured they understand actuarials insurance companies figure are not in your favor.

I don't know where to start with this. I'm starting with the premise that there is such a thing as insurance that makes sense. You seem to be acting like buying insurance never makes sense. And tons of businesses buy insurance, from auto policies to massive product liability policies.

 

[Zebo]

I don't know where to start with this. I'm starting with the premise that there is such a thing as insurance that makes sense. You seem to be acting like buying insurance never makes sense. And tons of businesses buy insurance, from auto policies to massive product liability policies.

It only makes sense if you can't afford to lose it. Otherwise what you pay premiums and invested you'll come out way way ahead. They pay actuarial hundreds of thousands a year that tell me that, I don't need to do the math. Liability is totally different and you should carry at least your net worth or 3MM IMO in umbrella coverage.

 

[BoberFett]

I don't know where to start with this. I'm starting with the premise that there is such a thing as insurance that makes sense. You seem to be acting like buying insurance never makes sense. And tons of businesses buy insurance, from auto policies to massive product liability policies.

Insurance is gambling. It's great for those who win, bad for those who lose, but the house always wins.

 

[Infohawk]

How many terrorists have been stopped inside the US? Shouldn't there be monthly or weekly reports about these dangerous Muslims being thwarted by heroic anti-terrorist agencies? Why isn't the government touting their massive successes in domestic security? What do they have to show for 10 years and $1T dollars? Some doofus in Portland and an idiot with a flaming shoe on a plane. Seriously? That's it? So since 9/11...


Terrorists Stopped On US Soul: 2
Americans Killed By 9/11 Hijackers: 2,900
Soldiers Killed Overseas: 4,500
Americans Killed By Swimming Pools: 35,000
Americans Dead From Cancer: 5,800,000
Look on peoples faces when you confront them with facts and logic: Priceless

There are somethings money can't buy. For everything else, there's Uncle Sam's credit card.

I could link you to the thwarted plots or you could even google it (more than 2 btw), but I am pretty confident it wouldn't matter to you. You just adamantly think terrorists aren't a threat even though they've been successful in the past. But I'd really love a situation where people could ride Jihad air if they wanted to. No security checkpoints and only a guarantee that their plane would be blown from the sky if the pilots reported a hijacking.

And as for your silly stats what you're again ignoring is the alternative if no money had been spent on security. Try thinking of it this way. Say someone in Israel argued that they did not need a military and should instead spend everything they had on cancer prevention since so 0 Israelis had died because of attacks by neighboring countries in the past decade. Would that sound smart? Or would it be more prudent to compare the number of cancer deaths to the number of potential deaths that would occur because of a foreign invasion? Police, military and counter-terrorism spending is usually preventive. It's like firing the town police officer because the jails are empty. Is there no crime because he's on the beat or because people are naturally just loving peaceful creatures?

 

[Zebo]

Insurance is gambling. It's great for those who win, bad for those who lose, but the house always wins.

Yeah it's betting on green on roulette and payout is only 1:1


Oh and every month they bust some terrorist.

 

[Infohawk]

Liability is totally different and you should carry at least your net worth or 3MM IMO in umbrella coverage.

I'm not sure where you're going with all this. Liability insurance is still insurance. You must realize I wasn't interested in distinguishing between various types of insurance right? (And frankly I'm not going to go on P&N to get advice about insurance so save your breath.)

My point is that you have to be an idiot to say "we haven't been sued this year so we obviously don't need liability insurance." Bober is saying something very similar. "We haven't had many deaths since 9/11 so therefore all this counter-terrorism spending has been a waste." Riiigght... and maybe just mabye the counter-terrorism spending is the reason we haven't had many deaths.

 

[BoberFett]

And if we locked everyone in a padded cell then nobody would be hurt.

You don't seem to see that the tradeoffs made have not resulted in a better country. If you can't understand that, no amount of discussion will sway you.

It doesn't really matter, this country will collapse economically, it's just a matter of when. At that point, there will be little left to protect. Enjoy your alphabet soup government agencies while they last.

 

[Infohawk]

And if we locked everyone in a padded cell then nobody would be hurt.

You don't seem to see that the tradeoffs made have not resulted in a better country. If you can't understand that, no amount of discussion will sway you.

That is an extreme nobody is advocating for. Meanwhile, I could be wrong but what you are actually advocating is extreme. The real discussion is in the details. Do you want to get rid of the TSA in its entirety and let people take guns on board planes? Do you want to not fund any FBI counter-terrorist operations? How extreme do you want to get?

It doesn't really matter, this country will collapse economically, it's just a matter of when. At that point, there will be little left to protect. Enjoy your alphabet soup government agencies while they last.

LOL I'm glad you have it all figured out.

 

[LumbergTech]

That is an extreme nobody is advocating for. Meanwhile, I could be wrong but what you are actually advocating is extreme. The real discussion is in the details. Do you want to get rid of the TSA in its entirety and let people take guns on board planes? Do you want to not fund any FBI counter-terrorist operations? How extreme do you want to get?


LOL I'm glad you have it all figured out.

hes extreme because hes pointing out that maybe if we spent that kind of money fighting cancer (or any other number of problems that kill more people) and having more realistic foreign and domestic security policies that we could save many more lives.....

 

[BoberFett]

hes extreme because hes pointing out that maybe if we spent that kind of money fighting cancer (or any other number of problems that kill more people) and having more realistic foreign and domestic security policies that we could save many more lives.....

Yep, that's what passes for extreme these days. What apparently makes for common sense in the US is when states like mine discuss outlawing gay marriage and how to pay for sports stadiums while we have a huge budget shortfall.

This country has gone completely mad from top to bottom, and nothing can stop it from going completely over the edge.

 

[Infohawk]

hes extreme because hes pointing out that maybe if we spent that kind of money fighting cancer (or any other number of problems that kill more people) and having more realistic foreign and domestic security policies that we could save many more lives.....

No that's not what I was saying. Nice try though.