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Paypal incompetence!

Project86

Golden Member
I've been to paypalsucks.com and heard many bad stories around here, but nothing bad ever happened to me. I even had to do a claim last year because I purchased something that never arrived. That claim went smoothly. I was fairly confident in using paypal, up until last month.

I won a bid for a set of 4 speakers on ebay. They were listed as 2 pair, and the picture showed 2 pair. It said they appeared new, but one of them had a torn grill. Bidding ended at $105 or so, and then shipping was $20. I promptly paid with paypal and received the item about a week later.

The box that showed up on my doorstep was totally mangled. When I opened it, it contained a bunch of pieces of speakers. I didn't even know what exactly it was until I laid it out side by side on the floor. At that point I could see that I had 2 speakers, broken into roughly 7 pieces, and a grill that was snapped in half. I had drivers sitting loose outside of the cabinet, I had cabinets with tops and bottoms cracked off.... it was quite a mess. And the other pair was missing altogether.

The seller was a large company that had 10,000+ feedback, in the low 90% range, so I figured they would take care of it. Their response was to offer a "store credit" for half of the amount I paid. This was not acceptable to me because A) I didn't trust them to package anything else properly, and B) 50% would cover the missing speakers but not the damaged speakers. I politely declined and told them what I wanted. They never responded.

So I got paypal involved, first using the dispute option so I could continue communicating with the seller. The seller eventually answered, advising me to ship everything back to them for a full refund. By this time I had used the drivers , tweeters, and terminal cups from the speakers in another project. I responded with this info, and asked for a refund of $80, and we could pretend I had paid around $40 shipped for some speaker components. They never answered that, so I escalated the dispute into a claim.

I summed everything up for paypal, and was confident they would grant me my partial refund, given that all the facts were on my side. They responded saying the seller agreed to a full refund and I needed to provide tracking numbers when I sent the item back.

I replied several times to help clarify my case. Each time I got a canned response asking for a tracking number. I could not seem to get an actual person to read my request and either approve or deny it. Even though I had several emails waiting for an answer from them, they closed the claim stating that I had failed to reply with a tracking number. I continued appealing the decision: not based on the fact that I lost, but the fact that they didn't bother to read my request and answer it.

It's been maddening to receive replies from them with the same information every time, despite repeated attempts to escalate it to a supervisor or appeal process. Every reply I get points me to their automated system, and advises me that nobody monitors the account so don't bother to reply. I once had someone refer me to their 800 number, which no doubt has a 30+ minute wait time... at which point someone would have to read my entire claim and start from scratch. I still intend to call when I have a free block of time, which is rare for me.

The worst part is that I was told that the decision was done, but I could appeal it by emailing appeals at paypal.com. I did so, and just received a reply saying "From researching your account history, I can see that your issue has
been resolved." And again pointing me to their website.... What? Nothing has been resolved! I don't think it is asking too much to get someone there to read my claim and give me a yes or a no. A no wouldn't make much sense, but at least it would be better than where I am at now.

I really don't know if I can trust paypal anymore. If they won't protect me when merchandise is missing or damaged, then I'll have to try and find another way of doing business.

Cliffs:

*I buy 4 speakers from ebay that should be in good shape
*2 arrive with major damage, the other 2 never arrive
*I make use of some parts from the 2 speakers, ask for partial refund
*paypal wants me to ship everything back for full refund, won't even read my requests
*I'm disappointed with paypal and seeking an alternative service (and grumbling about them everywhere I can)
 
I make use of some parts from the 2 speakers, ask for partial refund
That is where you made your mistake, plain and simple.

The seller offered to give you a full refund if you returned the items. You refused. Case closed.
 
Originally posted by: jpeyton
I make use of some parts from the 2 speakers, ask for partial refund
That is where you made your mistake, plain and simple.

The seller offered to give you a full refund if you returned the items. You refused. Case closed.

my thoughts exactly.
 
Originally posted by: sniperruff
Originally posted by: jpeyton
I make use of some parts from the 2 speakers, ask for partial refund
That is where you made your mistake, plain and simple.

The seller offered to give you a full refund if you returned the items. You refused. Case closed.

my thoughts exactly.

yeah i really don't understand the problem.
 
I'm getting sick and tired of all the incompetent schmucks who fail to follow common sense and do their due diligence, then come here and whine how much PayPal/eBay/UPS/FedEx/USPS sucks :roll:
 
Well how about this: ignore the broken speakers, and focus on the missing speakers. I paid for 4, but received 2. Would it then make sense to require me to send back the 2 that I did receive?


Also, again my issue is not with them denying my claim, but the fact that nobody even bothered to read it. If someone had responded saying "that's not fair for reasons X,Y,or Z" then I'd be satisfied.
 
Originally posted by: Project86
Well how about this: ignore the broken speakers, and focus on the missing speakers. I paid for 4, but received 2. Would it then make sense to require me to send back the 2 that I did receive?


Also, again my issue is not with them denying my claim, but the fact that nobody even bothered to read it. If someone had responded saying "that's not fair for reasons X,Y,or Z" then I'd be satisfied.

because the deal was for 4. what is the seller goign to do with 2 broken speakers?

 
Originally posted by: AnyMal
I'm getting sick and tired of all the incompetent schmucks who fail to follow common sense and do their due diligence, then come here and whine how much PayPal/eBay/UPS/FedEx/USPS sucks :roll:

Stay out of the thread then. Or suggest what "common sense" action I could have taken.

By the way, they said they would only refund me the $20 that I paid for shipping. Since their box arrived completely shredded, I'd have to go out and purchase all new shipping materials. Due to the size and weight of the speakers, fedex, ups, usps all estimated ~#35 shipping. So I would end up spending $20 for their mistake, which is about $20 of the value of the auction. That seems reasonable.
 
Originally posted by: Project86
Originally posted by: AnyMal
I'm getting sick and tired of all the incompetent schmucks who fail to follow common sense and do their due diligence, then come here and whine how much PayPal/eBay/UPS/FedEx/USPS sucks :roll:

Stay out of the thread then. Or suggest what "common sense" action I could have taken.

By the way, they said they would only refund me the $20 that I paid for shipping. Since their box arrived completely shredded, I'd have to go out and purchase all new shipping materials. Due to the size and weight of the speakers, fedex, ups, usps all estimated ~#35 shipping. So I would end up spending $20 for their mistake, which is about $20 of the value of the auction. That seems reasonable.


take that up with the shipping company then. its not teh dealers responbilty.

they did the correct thing. they offered you a full refund. you didn't want that. shrug. i really fail to see how this is paypal's incompetence and not yours.
 
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: Project86
Well how about this: ignore the broken speakers, and focus on the missing speakers. I paid for 4, but received 2. Would it then make sense to require me to send back the 2 that I did receive?


Also, again my issue is not with them denying my claim, but the fact that nobody even bothered to read it. If someone had responded saying "that's not fair for reasons X,Y,or Z" then I'd be satisfied.

because the deal was for 4. what is the seller goign to do with 2 broken speakers?


I'm not sure what they would do with them... but I can use them. Which is why I suggested the partial refund. I also paid for shipping insurance, and suggested they work with me on that angle, assuming the damage was caused by the carrier rather than their piss poor packing job. No reply to that one.
 
Originally posted by: Project86
Originally posted by: AnyMal
I'm getting sick and tired of all the incompetent schmucks who fail to follow common sense and do their due diligence, then come here and whine how much PayPal/eBay/UPS/FedEx/USPS sucks :roll:

Stay out of the thread then. Or suggest what "common sense" action I could have taken.

By the way, they said they would only refund me the $20 that I paid for shipping. Since their box arrived completely shredded, I'd have to go out and purchase all new shipping materials. Due to the size and weight of the speakers, fedex, ups, usps all estimated ~#35 shipping. So I would end up spending $20 for their mistake, which is about $20 of the value of the auction. That seems reasonable.

Common sense would be to not alter whatever you received in any way.
 
So I got paypal involved, first using the dispute option so I could continue communicating with the seller. The seller eventually answered, advising me to ship everything back to them for a full refund. By this time I had used the drivers , tweeters, and terminal cups from the speakers in another project.

How much time are we talkin' here before you determined you were going to use part of the shipment?

I don't know about you, but if I order a shipment of anything, I'll refuse it if the box gets mangled, send the whole kit and caboodle back for a refund. That's pretty common sense to me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem like you were trying to create your own workarounds for policies of a company/business that's doing a huge volume of transactions. That'll work in a small set-up, but not so much on the large scale.
 
Originally posted by: AnyMal
Originally posted by: Project86
Originally posted by: AnyMal
I'm getting sick and tired of all the incompetent schmucks who fail to follow common sense and do their due diligence, then come here and whine how much PayPal/eBay/UPS/FedEx/USPS sucks :roll:

Stay out of the thread then. Or suggest what "common sense" action I could have taken.

By the way, they said they would only refund me the $20 that I paid for shipping. Since their box arrived completely shredded, I'd have to go out and purchase all new shipping materials. Due to the size and weight of the speakers, fedex, ups, usps all estimated ~#35 shipping. So I would end up spending $20 for their mistake, which is about $20 of the value of the auction. That seems reasonable.


I could always take a hammer to them and restore them to original condition.
Common sense would be to not alter whatever you received in any way.

 
Originally posted by: AnyMal
I'm getting sick and tired of all the incompetent schmucks who fail to follow common sense and do their due diligence, then come here and whine how much PayPal/eBay/UPS/FedEx/USPS sucks :roll:

amen brother...
 
Originally posted by: Hossenfeffer
So I got paypal involved, first using the dispute option so I could continue communicating with the seller. The seller eventually answered, advising me to ship everything back to them for a full refund. By this time I had used the drivers , tweeters, and terminal cups from the speakers in another project.

How much time are we talkin' here before you determined you were going to use part of the shipment?

I don't know about you, but if I order a shipment of anything, I'll refuse it if the box gets mangled, send the whole kit and caboodle back for a refund. That's pretty common sense to me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem like you were trying to create your own workarounds for policies of a company/business that's doing a huge volume of transactions. That'll work in a small set-up, but not so much on the large scale.

The box was sitting on my porch when I got home from work that day. No delivery confirmation or signature requested.

I'm not trying to create a workaround. They offered me store credit, which I wouldn't want, but I would have taken that amount if they offered it as a refund. They never answered my emails though (I gave them a long time). What I'm trying to do is work out the best solution for everyone. These were not brand new speakers when they sold them, so it's not like they could send them back to the manufacturer. They would never be able to sell them with such damage. But I am willing to pay them for the damaged units. Just not the full price that I was expecting to pay for 4 working units. I don't see why this is not making sense.
 
Originally posted by: AnyMal
I'm getting sick and tired of all the incompetent schmucks who fail to follow common sense and do their due diligence, then come here and whine how much PayPal/eBay/UPS/FedEx/USPS sucks :roll:

Perfect. :thumbsup:
 
Originally posted by: Project86
I don't see why this is not making sense.

It doesn't make sense to us, Paypal, or the company you bought the speakers from. Notice a pattern here?


When it's everyone else, it's you. <little phrase I bring up every so often.
 
Shouldn't have tried to make the most of the busted speakers whilst claiming a refund, you should have sealed the thing back up straight away and not touched it until you sent it back to them when they agreed to a full refund.
 
Originally posted by: daveshel
The only safe paypal account is a closed paypal account.

I've used them since they opened up and never had a problem. I've put thousands of dollars through them and had to file a few disputes, all of which have been rectified satisfactorily.

 
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