Paypal charge back! this is not right I hate them

[ADUDE]

Hi happy holidays merry Xmas . I really dont understand what this Email means exactly .



We have just been informed that you have received funds from an
account with reports of non-receipt of merchandise or merchandise
received not-as-described.

Details of the transaction and this case are as follows:

Buyer's Name: Rick xxxxxx
Buyer's Email: xxxxxx
Transaction Date: Sep xxxxx
Transaction Amount: -$xxxx
Case #: xxxxxx


PayPal indemnifies sellers from chargeback liability resulting from
a buyer's fraudulent use of a stolen credit card and/or false claims
of non-shipment of goods for payments received through PayPal of up
to $5,000 per year when the following conditions are met:

1. The seller has a U.S. Verified Business or a U.S. Verified Premier
Account or a Canadian International - Verified Business or Canadian
International - Verified Premier Account. Note: While International
sellers outside of Canada may have a status of International -
Verified, they do not qualify for and are not protected by the Seller
Protection Policy and therefore may be responsible for any reversals
made due to fraudulent funds.

2. The seller ships to the buyer's Confirmed Address.

3. The seller can provide reasonable proof-of-shipment which can be
tracked online. This documentation must show that you shipped to
the Confirmed Address. (Most U.S. carrier companies, including the
U.S. Postal Service, offer this service.) For transactions $500 or
more in value that are initiated between November 15, 2001 and April
19, 2002, and for transactions $250 or more in value that are
initiated on or after April 19, 2002, the seller also needs to
provide an online proof-of-receipt in the form of a signature from
the recipient. Because comparable proof-of-shipment is not currently
available for electronically-delivered items, we are currently
unable to offer Seller Protection for digital goods and other
electronically-delivered items.


4. The seller accepted a single payment from only one PayPal account
for the purchase. (Multiple payments from different accounts for a
single item are a fraud indicator. Sellers should not accept such
payments.)

5. The seller ships to a domestic (U.S.) buyer at a U.S. address.

6. The seller cooperates in resolving disputes by responding in the
following time periods: When a complaint occurs, the seller must
provide complete information within 7 days of a request from PayPal.
However, if PayPal is required by the credit card association to
respond immediately to resolve a reversal, sellers must provide the
information within 3 days. PayPal will indicate the response time
required in the e-mail message sent to the seller.

7. The seller ships within 7 days of receiving payment.

Under the guidelines of our Seller Protection Policy, we reserve the
right to place a hold on the transaction in question while we
investigate this case. To resolve this case, please click on the link
below and provide us with the requested information:

https://www.paypal.com

All correspondence regarding this case must be received within 72
hours via the link provided above. If you fail to provide the
requested information within that timeframe, your chargeback
protection for this transaction will be forfeited.
We look forward to your reply.

Sincerely,
PayPal Chargeback Division

Please do not reply to this e-mail. Mail sent to this address cannot be
answered. For assistance, log in to your PayPal account and choose the
"Help" link in the footer of any page.

 

[BarneyFife]

Well it means that the buyer used a stolen credit card or didn't receive the merchandise and they are going to try to take the money back from you.

 

[Trevelyan]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Well it means that the buyer used a stolen credit card or didn't receive the merchandise and they are going to try to take the money back from you.

Exactly... I would try to resolve it, but keep in mind if you have or put any funds in your paypal account they are at risk of being taken from you. Paypal won't go to your checking account or credit card... so just make sure all the money stays in your banking accounts.

 

[Adul]

Originally posted by: Trevelyan

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Well it means that the buyer used a stolen credit card or didn't receive the merchandise and they are going to try to take the money back from you.

Exactly... I would try to resolve it, but keep in mind if you have or put any funds in your paypal account they are at risk of being taken from you. Paypal won't go to your checking account or credit card... so just make sure all the money stays in your banking accounts.

I wouldn't even trust any account with that paypal has access to. move it to an account not accessable via paypal.

 

[ADUDE]

thanks everyone. I am having troubles with this guy who sold me rims for my car. Very long story. But I hate paypal!


I Dont have any money in my paypal account now. I almost feel like closing my account.

 

[ADUDE]

I think i know whats is going on. I disputed the paypal charge with my master card and now paypal is out the money. Now Paypal is comming after me.


what should i do ? I hate these guys.


Dear xxxx

Your PayPal account balance has been negative for days.
Sustaining a negative balance is a breach of PayPal's User Agreement.
PayPal requires that you eliminate the negative balance by adding funds
to your PayPal account via check, money order, or an electronic transfer
from your bank account.


Please read on for instructions on how to add funds to your PayPal account.

We appreciate your immediate attention to this matter. Unfortunately, if we do
not receive payment or hear from you within ten (10) days, we will next send a
formal demand letter requesting reimbursement, which will be our final communication
before we must turn your account over to a collection agency, or to our attorneys.
Having the matter referred to our attorneys and/or a collection agency could have
adverse effects on your credit rating.

 

[CFster]

The exact same thing happened to me. The buyer used a stolen credit card. I'm out $350. Even though in my opinion it's Paypal's job to verify the identity of their users they want to have nothing to do with it. I mean, if they're providing the service, they should police it and be held responsible. Also, I later found out that the same buyer did the exact same thing to another seller on eBay! I'm astonished that both eBay and PayPal (well, they're the same now) want nothing to do with it. I even pressed charges against the guy but of course the cops can't find him - he's long gone...

eBay - never again.

PayPal - never again.

-Good Luck

 

[CFster]

Originally posted by: ADUDE
I think i know whats is going on. I disputed the paypal charge with my master card and now paypal is out the money. Now Paypal is comming after me.


what should i do ? I hate these guys.


Dear xxxx

Your PayPal account balance has been negative for days.
Sustaining a negative balance is a breach of PayPal's User Agreement.
PayPal requires that you eliminate the negative balance by adding funds
to your PayPal account via check, money order, or an electronic transfer
from your bank account.


Please read on for instructions on how to add funds to your PayPal account.

We appreciate your immediate attention to this matter. Unfortunately, if we do
not receive payment or hear from you within ten (10) days, we will next send a
formal demand letter requesting reimbursement, which will be our final communication
before we must turn your account over to a collection agency, or to our attorneys.
Having the matter referred to our attorneys and/or a collection agency could have
adverse effects on your credit rating.

Not sure how much money you're talking about, but paying up might be better than getting a bad credit rating after PayPal sends a collection agency after you. I say pay it, and then try to get your money back afterwards. eBay has SafeHarbor and there are numerous online sites offering services that might help you. Didn't help me, but you might get lucky.

 

[ADUDE]

Argh.... THIS STINKS to high hell.


I worked hard getting my credit cleared. Now this.

 

[ADUDE]

does anyone else have any ideas?

 

[Codewiz]

If Paypal marks your credit record I would dispute the mark. You can continue to do that. I would also let your credit card company know what is going on.

 

[BarneyFife]

Why would Paypal come after you for disputing a charge? I don't understand why they would take your money because you were the one that paid the guy for the rims, unless you sold something and they are placing a dispute with you. Something doesn't make sense here.

 

[Tom]

No, I think it's Adude who is the buyer not paying for the wheels by using a chargeback on his credit card.

 

[ADUDE]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Why would Paypal come after you for disputing a charge? I don't understand why they would take your money because you were the one that paid the guy for the rims, unless you sold something and they are placing a dispute with you. Something doesn't make sense here.

they said it breatches there contract! its BS really. That charge a whopping fee and dont protect anyone

 

[Ns1]

i think you should tell us wtf is going on

 

[CFster]

PayPal and eBay sucks - that's what's going on.

 

[Tom]

That might be true, but without any explanation there's no reason to think they're at fault in this case.

 

[ADUDE]

I just lost 30 minutes of typing. I?m a little mad now. But here it goes again.

1) I bought these rims from a guy in a VW forum for 615$ paypal 55 or so of it was paypal balance the rest was from my MasterCard .here is the thread and here are some pics that were deleted in the thread

pic 1pic 2 pic 3



2) I received the rims badly damaged no packing what so ever

3) I contact the seller to say WTH man! :| he said I used good packing, I used wire tires to hold them together

4) I love the rims but there all scratched up and stuff.

5) I buy tires for the rims 300$

6) I go to the tire store by my house to drop the rims and tires off to get the tires that were on the rims to be taken off and to get the new tires installed. A day goes by and I get a call from the that says you better come down and look at the rims on the machine 3 of them are real badly bent up.

7) Ok now I contact the seller again. He pretends to know nothing about the bends. I?m really keeping a kewl head never getting mad. I ask him for a refund he deny me. I say Ok then I want you to pay for them and get them fixed I love the style of the rims and there hard to come by. So he says ok get an estimate. Ok I call around for a few days and find a place by me. http://www.fixrim.com they tell me 300$ to fix the 3 rims. I called the seller and tell him I want at least 300$. He refuses to give me that. I only manage 180$ out of him, I?m ok with that. I sent the rims there to be fixed. They sent them back the next day as unrepairable. Ok now what. I contact the seller again to ask for a refund. He says nope man they were yours after I refunded you the 180$ that was the final sale. I was very mad to say the least

8) Now I contact paypal to ask for a refund for the total amount. I am still out mounting and balancing time ext... Paypal tells me all I can do is file a buyer complaint. I?m like what the hell. You guys get a big chunk of change. Anyways im still screwed.

9) I called my MasterCard bank and dispute the charge telling them the whole story. They say write us a letter explain the whole story and send any estimates you have. I do that. After a few weeks I get credited for 545$ the paypal charge.

10) IM holding on to the rims not sure what to do with them. I though EBay would be a good place for them. So I sell them on EBay explaing the WHOLE STORY. I used pictures ect... The seller was happy go figure :Q

11) Now paypal want the 180$ back? wth?? :| :|

 

[MrCodeDude]

I don't see the problem, you got your money from MasterCard. Now send the rims/tires back. MasterCard will deal with all the Paypal balogni they try and come up with.
-- mrcodedude

 

[ADUDE]

Originally posted by: MrCodeDude
I don't see the problem, you got your money from MasterCard. Now send the rims/tires back. MasterCard will deal with all the Paypal balogni they try and come up with.
-- mrcodedude

the seller refused them. + i dont have his adress anymore + they have been Ebayed

 

[bsobel]

First, this sounds like it's your problem, not Paypal's. You screwed up by accepting a settlement on the damage before verifying you could actually get the item fixed. That is no-ones fault but your own.

Second, let me see if I follow your numbers.

615 total.
545 Mastercard
70 paypal balance

Ok, your out $615. The buyer refunds you $180. Your now out $465. Mastercard refunds you $545. Now your up $80. There is no way you should wind up 'ahead' on this whole mixed up situation. Sounds to me if you pay the $180 paypal wants your out $100 for the whole experience, not great, but you could be out the whole $615. If you don't agree, re-read my first point.

Also, this doesn't account for how much money you received for eBaying them (which was how much?). As popular as it is to blame PayPal, I just don't see a problem here.

Bill

 

[ADUDE]

Originally posted by: bsobel
First, this sounds like it's your problem, not Paypal's. You screwed up by accepting a settlement on the damage before verifying you could actually get the item fixed. That is no-ones fault but your own.

Second, let me see if I follow your numbers.

615 total.
545 Mastercard
70 paypal balance

Ok, your out $615. The buyer refunds you $180. Your now out $465. Mastercard refunds you $545. Now your up $80. There is no way you should wind up 'ahead' on this whole mixed up situation. Sounds to me if you pay the $180 paypal wants your out $100 for the whole experience, not great, but you could be out the whole $615. If you don't agree, re-read my first point.

Also, this doesn't account for how much money you received for eBaying them (which was how much?). As popular as it is to blame PayPal, I just don't see a problem here.

Bill

I see what you are saying. Maybe I should just pay it. Its just that I only wanted my money back from paypal. but they refused it. I dont understand. IM not payingthem crap. Now that there in the hole they care all the sudden. Wheni needed there help the did not care at all.

 

[Tom]

"11) Now paypal want the 180$ back? wth?? "

Forgetting about the rest of the story, why does Paypal want the $180 back ?

This is the $180 that the original seller refunded to you via Paypal, right ? I don't see how Paypal has any claim on the $180 that the seller agreed to refund to you.

The way I see it..
You pay for wheels using Paypal, $70 from your balance, $545 with Mastercard.
You get wheels, not what you expected. To fix wheels to somewhat the condition you expected will cost additional $300 estimated, making total to you of $915.
You ask for you money back, seller won't give it to you. As you discover later, you do not have to accept this.
Seller agrees to send you $180, I gather from your description this is to help to defray the additional cost of $300 to repair the wheels, not a refund on the wheels per se.
You find out that the wheels cannot be repaired.
You contact Mastercard because the seller refused to refund your money. Mastercard decided claim in your favor and refunds the $545 portion.

Looking at things from the point of view of what is most favorable to you--

The seller possibly owes you the additional $70.

Depending on the exact circumstances, the $180 could be considered not to have anything to do with the purchase of the wheels since it might not have been a partial refund, but instead a partial payment for repairs to the wheels. A repair that if the wheels belong to you when you got the $180, it would be up to you whether or not you used the $180 for that purpose.

Ownership of the wheels-There is a legal point, which I'm no expert about, that has to do with someone sending you something different than what they told you they were going to send. I think if the seller either deliberately, or by gross negligence, sends you something other than what he represented to you, that you are not obligated to pay for the item and if the seller makes no effort to recover the item, it might be considered abandoned or a gift. If this is the case then you of course could sell it. If it's not the case then you might have to transfer the proceeds of the sale to the original seller.

 

[ADUDE]

Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
"11) Now paypal want the 180$ back? wth?? "

Forgetting about the rest of the story, why does Paypal want the $180 back ?

This is the $180 that the original seller refunded to you via Paypal, right ? I don't see how Paypal has any claim on the $180 that the seller agreed to refund to you.

The way I see it..
You pay for wheels using Paypal, $70 from your balance, $545 with Mastercard.
You get wheels, not what you expected. To fix wheels to somewhat the condition you expected will cost additional $300 estimated, making total to you of $915.
You ask for you money back, seller won't give it to you. As you discover later, you do not have to accept this.
Seller agrees to send you $180, I gather from your description this is to help to defray the additional cost of $300 to repair the wheels, not a refund on the wheels per se.
You find out that the wheels cannot be repaired.
You contact Mastercard because the seller refused to refund your money. Mastercard decided claim in your favor and refunds the $545 portion.

Looking at things from the point of view of what is most favorable to you--

The seller possibly owes you the additional $70.

Depending on the exact circumstances, the $180 could be considered not to have anything to do with the purchase of the wheels since it might not have been a partial refund, but instead a partial payment for repairs to the wheels. A repair that if the wheels belong to you when you got the $180, it would be up to you whether or not you used the $180 for that purpose.

Ownership of the wheels-There is a legal point, which I'm no expert about, that has to do with someone sending you something different than what they told you they were going to send. I think if the seller either deliberately, or by gross negligence, sends you something other than what he represented to you, that you are not obligated to pay for the item and if the seller makes no effort to recover the item, it might be considered abandoned or a gift. If this is the case then you of course could sell it. If it's not the case then you might have to transfer the proceeds of the sale to the original seller.

yes that is more alone the line to what im thinking, The 180$ was mine

anyone else care to shed some light ?

 

[vegetation]

Ebay doesn't care -- they took your listing fee and couldn't care less anymore about what happened afterwards. Ebay cannot put an end to fraud because if they did, their profits would diminish by a huge amount. Fraud supports ebay in a large way.

Originally posted by: CFster
The exact same thing happened to me. The buyer used a stolen credit card. I'm out $350. Even though in my opinion it's Paypal's job to verify the identity of their users they want to have nothing to do with it. I mean, if they're providing the service, they should police it and be held responsible. Also, I later found out that the same buyer did the exact same thing to another seller on eBay! I'm astonished that both eBay and PayPal (well, they're the same now) want nothing to do with it. I even pressed charges against the guy but of course the cops can't find him - he's long gone...

eBay - never again.

PayPal - never again.

-Good Luck