Paypal CC chargeback question

[Mike Gayner]

LOL paypal. I don't get why Americans still use this.

 

[QueBert]

I don't entirely understand why any seller would accept paypal.

because it works? I've never had a problem using Paypal when I sell shit, there are people who do have problems, but how many millions of transfers go thru a day? The alternatives to Paypal would be setting up dedicated CC processing, which is expensive and subjects you to credit checks. You could accept money orders, but that makes transactions slow and less safe than Paypal. For good or worse, there's really no usable Paypal alternative outside of Square Up or GoPayment, and both of those are only for in person transactions. Back when Ebay still let people do money orders and checks my friend got screwed 3 or 4 times with checks that bounced. He hadn't sent the items, but when the check didn't clear he was hit with whatever fee his bank charged him, like $25 I believe. if Paypal sucks so much what's better to use as a seller?

 

[SunnyD]

I don't remeber putting SSOC number when i signed up for paypal.

Don't need a SSN to have a collection filed against you.

OP: What's going to happen - if you've already swept the money into your bank account - your paypal account will sit negative balance until the dispute is resolved. Unfortunately, you're at the mercy of the BUYERS credit card company, even with the evidence that they have. Likely, the buyer has done this before and already is using a credit card company that will likely rule in their favor.

Your paypal account will remain negative, be closed, and you will be sent to collections.

Best thing you can do is once the final ruling comes in and no more action will be taken against this dispute by paypal or the credit card company is call up Trion and tell them the account was stolen, and have it shut down for good.

Unfortunately, you're the asshole since you didn't bother to read Trion's terms of service for RIFT in the fact that you are legally prohibited from selling the account. But that's neither here nor there.

 

[Ns1]

because it works? I've never had a problem using Paypal when I sell shit, there are people who do have problems, but how many millions of transfers go thru a day? The alternatives to Paypal would be setting up dedicated CC processing, which is expensive and subjects you to credit checks. You could accept money orders, but that makes transactions slow and less safe than Paypal. For good or worse, there's really no usable Paypal alternative outside of Square Up or GoPayment, and both of those are only for in person transactions. Back when Ebay still let people do money orders and checks my friend got screwed 3 or 4 times with checks that bounced. He hadn't sent the items, but when the check didn't clear he was hit with whatever fee his bank charged him, like $25 I believe. if Paypal sucks so much what's better to use as a seller?

Going back to the stone ages and demanding a money order and stamp (which offers absolutely zero protection to the buyer btw), waiting 3-7 days to get payment and decreasing your sales by XX% in the process because buyers don't want to deal with payment methods other than paypal.

 

[BoomerD]

I stopped using Paypal several years ago. Too many reports of sellers getting fucked like this, too many hassles dealing with Paypal trying to resolve these issues unsuccessfully.

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any viable alternative to Paypal...yet. Hopefully, someone (bank?) will see the need for a similar service and start one.

I understand WHY Paypal needs to investigate claims of fraud on the part of the seller, but it seems like they ALWAYS side with the buyer, even when the seller can prove that their transaction was 100% true and above board.

 

[abaez]

Don't need a SSN to have a collection filed against you.

OP: What's going to happen - if you've already swept the money into your bank account - your paypal account will sit negative balance until the dispute is resolved. Unfortunately, you're at the mercy of the BUYERS credit card company, even with the evidence that they have. Likely, the buyer has done this before and already is using a credit card company that will likely rule in their favor.

Your paypal account will remain negative, be closed, and you will be sent to collections.

Best thing you can do is once the final ruling comes in and no more action will be taken against this dispute by paypal or the credit card company is call up Trion and tell them the account was stolen, and have it shut down for good.

Unfortunately, you're the asshole since you didn't bother to read Trion's terms of service for RIFT in the fact that you are legally prohibited from selling the account. But that's neither here nor there.

The money has already been removed from my account. At this point I no longer have it anymore and have continued to use my Paypal account.

I am just doing this to screw him as a deadbeat buyer. If I win bonus of $145 for me. If I lose, nothing is really lost as I can just sell the original account again (I still have it).

And I know you can't sell accounts but I don't think I am an asshole for doing so.

 

[Ns1]

I stopped using Paypal several years ago. Too many reports of sellers getting fucked like this, too many hassles dealing with Paypal trying to resolve these issues unsuccessfully.

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any viable alternative to Paypal...yet. Hopefully, someone (bank?) will see the need for a similar service and start one.

I understand WHY Paypal needs to investigate claims of fraud on the part of the seller, but it seems like they ALWAYS side with the buyer, even when the seller can prove that their transaction was 100% true and above board.

How will such a service differ from PayPal? it won't.


It's similar to how people clamor about how much eBay sucks and use AMZ instead, but FFS AMZ is just as bad as eBay (if not WORSE).

 

[Schfifty Five]

The money has already been removed from my account. At this point I no longer have it anymore and have continued to use my Paypal account.

I am just doing this to screw him as a deadbeat buyer. If I win bonus of $145 for me. If I lose, nothing is really lost as I can just sell the original account again (I still have it).

And I know you can't sell accounts but I don't think I am an asshole for doing so.

Perhaps I didn't read the OP clearly enough, but how did you get your RIFT account back? I would think that once you got the money from the buyer, you gave him the account login/pw info and I'm sure he changed it once he got it.

Then he tried to get his money back by filing a claim/dispute. So just seems odd how you still have your RIFT account.

So let's say you win the dispute and you get the money. Now you have the $145 and the RIFT account? Really confused.

 

[Ns1]

Perhaps I didn't read the OP clearly enough, but how did you get your RIFT account back? I would think that once you got the money from the buyer, you gave him the account login/pw info and I'm sure he changed it once he got it.

Then he tried to get his money back by filing a claim/dispute. So just seems odd how you still have your RIFT account.

So let's say you win the dispute and you get the money. Now you have the $145 and the RIFT account? Really confused.

Common for MMO accounts, you can get the account back by calling the company in question and giving up some information (which is a different scam entirely)

 

[Schfifty Five]

Common for MMO accounts, you can get the account back by calling the company in question and giving up some information (which is a different scam entirely)

Well, if OP does win the $145 or whatever, is he going to keep his RIFT account still?

 

[BoomerD]

How will such a service differ from PayPal? it won't.


It's similar to how people clamor about how much eBay sucks and use AMZ instead, but FFS AMZ is just as bad as eBay (if not WORSE).

How would it differ? How about making the buyer PROVE that he was scammed before returning their money? I could understand freezing the seller's account until the issue was resolved, but scamming sellers via PayPal has become something of an industry.

 

[SunnyD]

Well, if OP does win the $145 or whatever, is he going to keep his RIFT account still?

Probably. In fact the more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to believe that this was the OP's scam in the first place.

 

[Ns1]

Probably. In fact the more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to believe that this was the OP's scam in the first place.

I disagree - if the buyer does a chargeback then it's stupid NOT to get the account back.

 

[Schfifty Five]

Probably. In fact the more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to believe that this was the OP's scam in the first place.

I disagree - if the buyer does a chargeback then it's stupid NOT to get the account back.

Of course isn't not stupid to get the account back if you had your money taken away from it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it sounds like if the OP gets the $145, will he then give the RIFT account back to the buyer?

If he keeps both then he essentially stole $145 from the buyer.

 

[Ns1]

If he keeps both then he essentially stole $145 from the buyer.

Yes, that's true, but that's the buyer's fault for being a POS.

 

[SunnyD]

I disagree - if the buyer does a chargeback then it's stupid NOT to get the account back.

Perhaps the buyer got the account, got the login, OP contacted Trion to "yank" the account back after payment cleared his bank, changed the passwords etc., THEN the buyer disputed because he no longer has valid login information?

This is a classic scam for selling game accounts.

 

[Schfifty Five]

Yes, that's true, but that's the buyer's fault for being a POS.

It's still wrong and OP would be just as much of a POS as the buyer.

However that is jumping to conclusions and a hypothetical situation since OP hasn't responded yet what he would do if he did get the $145 back and was still in the possession of the account.

 

[Ns1]

It's still wrong and OP would be just as much of a POS as the buyer.

we'll have to agree to disagree

fuck the scammers OP! fuck em hard!

 

[SunnyD]

we'll have to agree to disagree

fuck the scammers OP! fuck em hard!

But as I pointed out - what if the OP is actually the scammer in this case?

(No offense abaez, I'm just flinging hypotheticals at this point cause I like to be an ATOT eThug and all)

 

[Ns1]

But as I pointed out - what if the OP is actually the scammer in this case?

(No offense abaez, I'm just flinging hypotheticals at this point cause I like to be an ATOT eThug and all)

Then the op should not be surprised there was a CC chargeback...

 

[QueBert]

How would it differ? How about making the buyer PROVE that he was scammed before returning their money? I could understand freezing the seller's account until the issue was resolved, but scamming sellers via PayPal has become something of an industry.

I've done 2 charge backs to a CC I had years ago, neither time did my bank make me prove shit. If I had been trying to fraud the companies I did a charge back on, they have every right to go after me to collect their money. Scamming on PayPal makes up a tiny percentage of overall transactions. And generally it's blown out of proportions by people who only think they know about shit from what they "heard" saying shit like "ZOMG PayPal NEVER sides with the seller ever! FUCK PAYPAL!" Yet the OP was a seller who PayPal sided with

go figure...

 

[abaez]

I'm not going to keep the account if I win. I got the account back by using the secret questions, which I told the buyer that I would send to him in two weeks if everything is good and he agreed.

If I win the chargeback with Paypal/his CC, I am going to send the account information, with secret questions, to the buyer and he can do the hell whatever he wants with it. I don't play the game anymore and don't care. It's tempting to actually keep the money (like I mentioned earlier) and sell the account again but that is quite scammy and I don't really want to deal with this anymore.

But I am in no way scamming anything. The buyer bought the account, used it for four days (moved servers, everything was switched around), then filed a dispute with PP and said it was an "imitation" and "not as described" (which was b.s. essentially). There is no buyer's remorse in this case - I clearly stated no refunds on the auction. Once he filed the first dispute (out of the blue without contacting me) I immediately got the account back using the secret questions.

After he lost the initial paypal dispute he then filed a chargeback on his CC saying it was unauthorized TWO weeks later, which was bullshit because I talked to him via email for four days before I sent him the info, and paypal CALLED him when he first filed the dispute to talk it over with him (it is noted on the paypal history for the claim). At no time did he say anything about it being unauthorized. This is what I told paypal.

This guy is basically a dick with buyer's remorse and thought he could just scam the system with paypal always favoring buyers as he probably read many times over.

 

[airdata]

I'm not going to keep the account if I win. I got the account back by using the secret questions, which I told the buyer that I would send to him in two weeks if everything is good and he agreed.

If I win the chargeback with Paypal/his CC, I am going to send the account information, with secret questions, to the buyer and he can do the hell whatever he wants with it. I don't play the game anymore and don't care.

Not sure what the situation is w\ his credit card company... If they took the money from your account, that means he's already gotten the money back.

Now, I don't know if they file criminal charges against people who do this, since it has to be some sort of fraud. I had an ebay dispute where they refunded the buyer without having reviewed the case. Then they refunded me as well and I just resold the item in question.

 

[SunnyD]

Not sure what the situation is w\ his credit card company... If they took the money from your account, that means he's already gotten the money back.

No... paypal is taking the money back because the buyer's CC company took the money back as it is in dispute. The CC will either re-release the funds back to paypal or tell paypal the CC dispute is valid and they're not going to get money. Paypal has NOT released the money back to the buyer (note: the first paypal dispute was ruled in favor of abaez). Paypal has taken "the money" (negative balance) to cover itself as the buyer's CC company has taken the money back in escrow during the dispute.

Either way, in terms of just the MONEY alone, paypal is covering ITS interests by removing money (or in this case putting abaez's account in the negative since he's already collected the money) from abaez.

The long and the short of it is that PAYPAL isn't really going to be hurt by this one way or another, as the CC dispute if ruled in favor of the buyer will simply cause paypal to keep abaez's account in the negative until he either funds it offsetting it (which he won't) or possibly sending him to collections for the balance.

 

[abaez]

I already said I lost the money and the money has been taken from me. My account became negative when he filed the dispute with the CC weeks ago and I have already provided funds so I can continue using my account. I am basically back to where I started as if I had never sold anything. If I win, I will send the account info over to the buyer. If not, then I still have the account and everything is where it was before all of this.